vis-a-vis test: dynafit khion vs salomon mtn lab

[LeeLau]

Judo. Bigger guys like the Khion. Remember I'm skinny

[bennymac]

I think that process is upside down^^ the prospective boot buyer should be looking at fit fit fit before worrying about tongue swaps and the net amount of money spent on dealing with a boot that doesn't fit

Just to be clear I totally agree with you on the importance of fit (and the costs and troubles one could go through to improve the fit of an ill-fitting boot)

Someone in this thread said they wouldn't get excited until a boot came out that matched the Vulcans stiffness, progressiveness, weight, and touring without the tongue swapping - the MTN Lab appears to be that boot.

The $250 savings and lack of tongue fiddling are big advantages if the Lab fits your foot.

From what's been posted on here it's not likely a good option for those who find the Vulcan a good fit.

[Judo Chop!]

Judo. Bigger guys like the Khion. Remember I'm skinny

I'm a big dude. I tried it in the shop and the lower flared open pretty badly when flexed. I hate boots that do that... Less and less heel hold in the motion when you want more. Not to mention that the upper cuff doesn't fit my leg.

[andysk]

I'm a big dude. I tried it in the shop and the lower flared open pretty badly when flexed. I hate boots that do that... Less and less heel hold in the motion when you want more. Not to mention that the upper cuff doesn't fit my leg.

I think that's actually what they have in mind. Khion has a bunch of stops built in, but they talk about progressive flex. The only way I can see for this to make sense is they expect the boot to deform. Probably better to assess how they ski.

[scottishrider]

Khion is a bit stiffer, mtn lab a bit more progressive.

Just wondering if it was the standard Khion or the Khion Carbon you where refering to? Is there a significant difference in stiffness between the 2 Khion models? Thanks.

[verbier61]

Mine is standard khion. No experience with the carbo khion

[scottishrider]

Thanks for the quick reply.
Anyone else able to comment on any stiffness difference between the standard and carbon Khion?
Thanks

[swissiphic]

Thanks for the quick reply.
Anyone else able to comment on any stiffness difference between the standard and carbon Khion?
Thanks

Don't recall which thread, might be worth a search or google but seem to recall some folks commenting that non carbon Khion a bit soft in forward flex?

[Lindahl]

Don't recall which thread, might be worth a search or google but seem to recall some folks commenting that non carbon Khion a bit soft in forward flex?

I thought it was soft - shop flexing though

[CaliBrit]

Anyone got an intuition liner such as the protour in a mtn lab? Improve the fit and feel?

[Lindahl]

My buddy enjoys his poerwraps in the Mtn Lab

[CaliBrit]

My buddy enjoys his poerwraps in the Mtn Lab

Just stuck mine in from my Cochise. They make the boot flex better, I have mtn explore as I am light. But really restrict aft rom. About the perfect flex I want.

Wondering if the protour with the optional power tongue would be a good bet.

Or I could get mtn labs. But I think a stiffer liner and these would be money.

[Lindahl]

I doubt the power tongue does much over the stock tongue. Try it in stock form first.

[swissiphic]

Stuck my Intuition high volume luxury liners in the mtn labs. Boots shells in stock form just don't fit my feet (wide vertically thin forefoot, midfoot, low instep, flat feet, severely pronated) didn't ski them a whole bunch but fore what it's worth did get a better fit/ski feel with intuitions compared to stock. Pros; improved warmth, ankle pocket/heel retention, a bit better fit at front curve of ankle/instep/top of foot but still not enough, better wrap of shinbone with tongue and lateral response. Cons; vertical compression at front of feet/toebox, baby toe area. Perceived forward flex was stiffer off the top but limited in progressive feel especially in colder temps...boots felt kinda brick like and it was difficult to flex ankles to respond to terrain irregularities/moguls/snowmobile woodeedoos on icy logging road survival ski outs. Kinda suspect this is more due to lack of proper fit and foot retention to actively engage the natural flex of shells. In smooth snow boots felt snappy and responsive. I'm 180 lbs dry weight plus usually touring with 15-20 pound pack.

[verbier61]

Don't recall which thread, might be worth a search or google but seem to recall some folks commenting that non carbon Khion a bit soft in forward flex?

I should not say that. Anyone I know - after skiing 'em - agreed they're stiff. Surely stiffer than a maestrale RS, as for comparison

[nickel]

Carbon khion skied and toured very well all season (from January onward). I really feel this boot didn't get the attention it deserved for whatever reason. Skis very nicely, fit is great (where I couldn't fit a Vulcan to save my life) and touring is more than acceptable.

Liner is annoying. That's my one gripe.

Buckles are ingenious once you take the time to use them as obviously intended.

[galibier_numero_un]

Craig Dostie gives a first look at next year's Khion - renamed the Beast (apparently due to some naming rights issues):

http://www.earnyourturns.com/33666/f...st/#more-33666

Cheers,
Thom

[duboix]

I find MTN Lab fit very weird, at least for my feet.

Off the shelf I could barely push my feet through the instep, and there was a mean pressure points at metatarsal base under the instep buckle - especially when I chucked my custom footbeds in, that are noticeably thicker in the arch area in comparison to the stock ones. On the first mold bootfitter padded the pressure area and cranked the bottom buckles super tight. This removed the pressure points, but left me with a huge amount of vertical room everywhere forward from the buckle. Even despite seemingly good heel and ankle hold, the boot was unskiable - I couldn't maintain fore/aft balance with literally no feedback from the forefoot.

There was also a noticeable pressure on my right little toe, but it seemed to be gone after molding with toe caps. However, after a few days of touring I realized that it's still a bit of a problem and that the shell has to be punched. Before going to a bootfitter I played with boots for a couple of days, and surprisingly found out that using stock footbeds with volume reducers gives more uniform instep hold than with custom ones. So I went to the shop, got that shell punched, and rebaked liners. This time I used stock footbed/volume reducer combo and didn't crank the bottom buckles trying to fill the vertical forefoot room with a liner foam. Well, this didn't work - there was still heaps of room, plus under buckle pressure points have returned, so I had to come back to spot mold the tongues.

First day of skiing was horrible again. No feedback when adjusting fore/aft balance, but the feet sliding instead. Tried to crank the buckles up, but only ended up getting that "brick" sensation - not much controllable flex, severe shin pressure, but no foot hold at the same time and no control whatsoever.

So I spent a few hours back at the lodge trying to figure out the situation. At this point I was on a trip, so no bootfitter handy (to be honest, I'm starting getting doubts about them being of any use). I was smart enough to bring my main setup (Lupos with Guardians) along new MTN Lab / Kingpin combo I was basically field testing. So I ended up taking my custom footbeds out of Lupos, padding them under the ball of foot area with a bootfitting foam, and chucking them into MTN Labs along with volume reducers. This has given me something resembling a skiable boot, that I had a couple of good powder laps in. However, getting out of the BC and skiing to the lift on a moderately tracked groomed run at high speed along with less damp skis (Surface Live Life 181) reminded me about not so good foot hold again.

I love the weight and walking mode and ease of mode transition on MTN Lab, but skiing wise it's a nightmare for me so far. Low midfoot, high forefoot - I honestly can't imagine a foot of that shape )) And weird flex too - even in cold I can flex first few degrees pretty much with no resistance. I can sit on the chairlift with my legs hanging freely, and I can flex through these few degrees just by flexing my ankle! It felt like a walk mode play, but when I check it at the lodge, there is no play whatsoever. Also the stance seems much more upright than in Lupos, and 9 of 10 users on TGR are moaning about Lupos being too upright, while praising MTN Labs at the same time. Although this upright feeling may be a consequence of being unable to precisely control fore/aft balance due to poor foothold.

My last hope is buying a pair of Intuitions and chucking them in, and even this is not clear in terms of what to get. Power Wraps apparently would compromise the ROM - although I have no idea how much, it might be not that critical for me at all as I prefer short stride and don't really get much past vertical cuff when skinning unless doing nordic-style flat approaches. On another hand, I'm not sure how much thickness do Pro Tours have in the forefoot area, being a tongue style liner - not sure if they'll be able to compensate all that void.

Long story short, it's a worst gear disappointment I ever had so far... but I'm sort of relieved to hear that other people have similar issues )) Maybe I should try to push the boundaries of the ski shop's "fit guarantee" and return them, punched, molded twice, and a bit beaten by skiing and rock scrambling )))