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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    Dry needle therapy

    Anybody go through it? Starting PT up here with someone very respected, and she did deep massage and dry needle on my right thigh to help me with my knee. Damn I'm sore, but, it's a good sore, and, hey, if it works, cool, I guess. How long should this last?

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Eburg
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    13,306
    A few months ago I got a dry needling treatment and steroid shot in my left heel for a case of plantar faciitis that was persisting way too long. The dry needling and shot worked. My PF pain died down within a few days and hasn't returned. I was back running within a week and plan to sweep an ultra in March. Lauds to Dr. Douglas Hale of Foot & Ankle Center in Seattle.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    RDU
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    227
    I had it for a sore calf over the summer. Calf pain went away but I cannot attribute it solely to the dry needling due to all the other exercises/stretches I was also doing at the same time.

  4. #4
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    Sep 2007
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    2,506
    Psuedoscience...have fun

  5. #5
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    Nov 2007
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    Eburg
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  6. #6
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    Jan 2009
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    Squaw valley
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    Steve, I had a prp injection fur pf, and it cured it, 2 years now and no pain.

  7. #7
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    Sep 2006
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    Tetons
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    Had it done on my right shoulder. More painful process than I expected. Didn't do shit. Heard others say it works wonders. Not for me though. Might give it a go again.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Tahoe
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    922
    I've had it, works for what it i think it is intended for, but it's not like it's a miracle cure or anything. Basically you are just inducing a very specific tensed muscle, or specific part of a tensed muscle, to spasm so that it will fully relax afterwards. It did that for me. It's kind of a trip watching a needle go deep into your tissue. But it is temporary relief. Same result can usually be achieved through massage or other methods.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    On Vacation for the Duration
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    13,815
    So far, I've been able to just suck it up. Maybe I've just been lucky. Heal up.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Whistler
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    532
    The evidence is strong to support it but its usually just treating an impairment not the underlying primary dysfunction. Its important that it is used a tool to calm the symptoms to be able to target the primary pathology. It breaks the pain spasm pain cycle at a peripheral level, relief can last a few days.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    33
    Had it done by my PT on my shoulder, in conjunction with more standard PT-type stuff. Worked great.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    No of SoBo, So of NoBo
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    2,280
    Had it a couple of times several years ago for lower back pain. Much more painful procedure than I'd expected, and it didn't seem to work for me. But my lower back has a variety of issues going on, so it's not surprising that treating a single muscle spasm didn't cure anything.

    I'm also kind of a wuss about needles, which didn't help - almost passed out after the first time. Worth noting if you're not super comfortable with shots, acupuncture, etc.
    Outlive the bastards - Ed Abbey

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Gaperville, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by lookinback View Post
    The evidence is strong to support it but its usually just treating an impairment not the underlying primary dysfunction. Its important that it is used a tool to calm the symptoms to be able to target the primary pathology. It breaks the pain spasm pain cycle at a peripheral level, relief can last a few days.
    Big +1.

    My PT dry needled weekly for the first 2 weeks to get to a place where my upper back/neck was able to calm enough to do the deeper work. My SO thought is was psuedoscience bullshit, but as @Big Steve points out there is decent evidence for it. Ancestrally, it hurt like a bitch, but at least got my muscles to chill out so that I had some quick relief. If you need immediate relief, than it may be helpful but it's part of your treatment, not the whole deal.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    The Cone of Uncertainty
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    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    Ancestrally, it hurt like a bitch.
    It made your whole family hurt?

  15. #15
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    Jan 2014
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    Gaperville, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    It made your whole family hurt?
    Yep. They all died from it actually.

    (Or, I'm tired as fuck from my van breaking in the middle of bumfuck WY on the way back from Jackson yesterday and there isn't enough coffee in the world to make me edit TGR posts.)

  16. #16
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    Sep 2001
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    The Cone of Uncertainty
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    Just playing mang. Bummer about the van, what did you do with the hooker bodies?

  17. #17
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    Jan 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Just playing mang. Bummer about the van, what did you do with the hooker bodies?
    Left them in a drift in WY's frozen tundra. Along with my knuckledragging friend that was driving when the van shat itself.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    nh
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    I have it done in my lower back he adds TENs to it, it works.
    People should learn endurance; they should learn to endure the discomforts of heat and cold, hunger and thirst; they should learn to be patient when receiving abuse and scorn; for it is the practice of endurance that quenches the fire of worldly passions which is burning up their bodies.
    --Buddha

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    www.skiclinics.com

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    Had it a couple of times several years ago for lower back pain. Much more painful procedure than I'd expected, and it didn't seem to work for me. But my lower back has a variety of issues going on, so it's not surprising that treating a single muscle spasm didn't cure anything.

    I'm also kind of a wuss about needles, which didn't help - almost passed out after the first time. Worth noting if you're not super comfortable with shots, acupuncture, etc.
    NEVER heard of dry needling!? but it sounds like accupuncture, perhaps using just one big needle?

    i found accupuncture stimluated an area and helped loosen things up ... helped speed up the healing process


    I always calm the person giving me a needle by telling them that "this won't hurt a bit "
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  20. #20
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    Well, it worked well after the first session, but, I'm walking into her office on Wednesday a bit messed up, because of three days of powder. I'm sorry, I don't miss three days of powder.

    Day to day. I am in the hands of very good professional help here. Maybe the best in the country. Of course, if my Mom came back, she'd be all over me for doing this stupid skiing. Sorry, Mom.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    hood of East Jackson
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    196
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Well, it worked well after the first session, but, I'm walking into her office on Wednesday a bit messed up, because of three days of powder. I'm sorry, I don't miss three days of powder.

    Day to day. I am in the hands of very good professional help here. Maybe the best in the country. Of course, if my Mom came back, she'd be all over me for doing this stupid skiing. Sorry, Mom.
    Is "here" Jackson? If so, care to provide a little more info on dry needle therapy and who you would recommend here in JH? I'm a little bunged up myself, but so far have been skiing through it

  22. #22
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    No, Summit County, Co..

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  23. #23
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    Dec 2006
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    crown of the continent
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettostyle View Post
    Is "here" Jackson? If so, care to provide a little more info on dry needle therapy and who you would recommend here in JH? I'm a little bunged up myself, but so far have been skiing through it
    pm incoming
    Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
    And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
    It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
    and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.

    Patterson Hood of the DBT's

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    nh
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    but it sounds like accupuncture, perhaps using just one big needle?
    No its based on anatomy not energy fields or whatever. The needles are the same.
    People should learn endurance; they should learn to endure the discomforts of heat and cold, hunger and thirst; they should learn to be patient when receiving abuse and scorn; for it is the practice of endurance that quenches the fire of worldly passions which is burning up their bodies.
    --Buddha

    *))
    ((*
    *))
    ((*


    www.skiclinics.com

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Whistler
    Posts
    532
    Benny, Glad to hear you are enjoying the powder, I am actually in Summit co studying under a PT who specializes in Dry needling for a few months so I'm familiar with the local opinion on PT care. People are big on manual care here, chiro especially, its kind of insane. The problem with many of these interventions is it shifts care to an external locus of control. You are now dependent on someone to get better, see a problem? But people in summit co love to get outside and immediately feel like they must go to someone to feel better if they are hurting without changing their daily lifestyle. Having an internal locus of control is really important such as doing appropriate exercise to calm down pathomechanics. Its a form of care thats highly effective for long term management but doesn't go over too well with people who think they know everything because they "post pictures holding a scrap of paper just over 14k feet".

    Dry needling is not acupuncture, there actually is a big lawsuit in North Carolina at the moment if you get bored and want some interesting reading. The acupuncturists are on track to loose unless they rally up some big time money, unlikely for any alternative to big pharma for lobbying perspectives.

    Dry needling targets the pain/spasm/pain cycle by directly targeting trigger points of increased tension, something that acupuncture does not. The only risks are a pneumothorax, something that really should never happen and the hole would be so small that you would just be monitored. The same effects can be mediated by other interventions but the end results are more time effective than a 30 minute massage and more directed than a simple TENS unit. I have heard of direct nerve needling, I dont know much about that as its a very high level intervention and beyond my current scope.

    Hope that helps

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