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  1. #51
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    ^^^ the whole system seems kinda messed up, that's just the latest installment.

    dude nearly died in a 4* fwq in france last weekend, still in an induced coma, outcome uncertain though tentatively hopeful. the higher level fwqs have been getting difficult to watch. there are moments of brilliance but a lot of people are taking bigger and bigger risks as it gets harder and harder to move up into the fwt. no idea how to fix that..
    Ich bitte dich nur, weck mich nicht.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by klar View Post
    ^^^ the whole system seems kinda messed up, that's just the latest installment.

    dude nearly died in a 4* fwq in france last weekend, still in an induced coma, outcome uncertain though tentatively hopeful. the higher level fwqs have been getting difficult to watch. there are moments of brilliance but a lot of people are taking bigger and bigger risks as it gets harder and harder to move up into the fwt. no idea how to fix that..
    I don't know if you can fix it. It's been that way forever. Judges getting critical over the slightest backslap helps, but I think they can do more by recognizing when athletes get lucky, too. (i.e. Jackson Bathgate just last week-- it was blatantly obvious to me he didn't intend on going that big on his bottom air. Those mistakes shouldn't get high scores, imo, even if they get lucky and stick it.) I understand it could be debated forever and neither side would be right. And that doesn't fix how difficult it is to get into FWT.

    I made a huge mistake around 2002 when I intended on airing out to a big field, came up short, landed in a trench and miraculously aired back out again. I got a huge score for it and I was like-- "Ummm... that was a total accident." Everyone told me to shut up.

    Most stop competing when they realize the best part of their day is finishing their run, as opposed to skiing it. "I'm so glad that's over. (Then why am I competing?)"

    Further note to athletes-- if your comp lines are bigger than your day-to-day lines, you're not ready yet. If you have to "Go for it.", you're not ready. Comp lines should be a walk in the park for you. Heitz skis that fast everyday. Fabio tricks every air everyday. They're not "going for it", they're skiing with their friends.

  3. #53
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    Yeah, I agree with all of that. It also seems like the qualifiers are a completely different game than the big tour. In Andorra you could tell some people were going for pretty safe lines to start the season and because there were about 5 cm of snow. You can't afford to do that if you want to win the qualifier tour. The main goal in the FWT seems to be staying in, while the main goal of the FWQ is getting out. I saw an interview with some big name dh racer after the race on the hahnenkamm where svindal, reichelt and the other guy crashed and he said that everyone goes a little faster than they want to because if you don't you wont win. that's pretty much the mindset in the 3 and 4*fwqs. the competition is just too strong to win if you don't "go for it" because there's always going to be someone who "goes for it" and in that one comp he gets lucky and it just happens to work out. there are some really consistent people on the FWT (e.g. Stefan Häusl) who rarely if ever win but get solid results that let them stay on. that doesn't work in the fwq.

    Fixing the FWQs through judging would be really difficult. Penalize people for falling by banning them from the next comp? Only allow them to move up if they never had a crash? Find a way to reward consistency, rather than single wins, maybe through fiddling with the way the point system works? Let more people move up and stop giving out wildcards to the tour to people who have never been in the qualifiers but have the right sponsors?
    Ich bitte dich nur, weck mich nicht.

  4. #54
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    ^^^ all good points. The whole thing is complicated by ongoing negotiations between IFSA (NA) and FWT/FWQ/FJT (Euros) about athlete numbers, judging criteria and consistency, and a myriad of other tiny details which end up impacting athletes.

    Junior judging in the NA region (with the occasional exception of anomalies with Canuckistanian judges) has evolved strongly toward rewarding really good skiing over meat-hucking. I also wondered whether Bathgate's last air would have helped him or hurt him with a different judging panel. Moles is well known to be really big on good skiing vs. just sending it, but he was the only American in the pit I think. If you're going to send it when he's in the pit here you better damn well send it perfectly. It would be really interesting to see the scoring breakdowns.

    Of course, it is FREE skiing and sometimes in free skiing you find yourself in some situation you might not have expected and have to rescue yourself (like Bathgate's last air) and many would surmise that thinking on your feet and on the fly like that equals good skiing. It's always hard to know how the pit will view a well executed near-miss. Anyone who's a student of the sport has seen it go both ways - some get punished and some are rewarded handsomely. Ice dancing on skis indeed.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gone Skiing View Post
    Yeah I thought Sam had one of the best runs of the day. If you're not waving your arms all over the place, you don't look like you're going as fast I guess.
    Whoa - I missed Anthamatten's run: most excellent. He may also have gotten a relatively low score because he was early in the contest. But I agree, he was super smooth and had a line with great flow that he totally stomped - plus trickery. In comparison, others (Malakhov jumps to mind) looked sloppy/arm wavy and got a much higher score.

    Judging one rider after another must be so hard. Although it's probably dumb for a number of reasons, I'd love to see a simultaneous, head to head contest (a la surfing). Has this ever been done in freeride comps?

  6. #56
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    Like any sport, there are going to be injuries from people pushing it too hard. Unlike most other sports, there are places where a fall can cause death. Limiting exposure is hugely important, and should be judged accordingly (not rewarded). If you are going to air, you shouldn't get more points if the LZ is more dangerous. If the judging pushes people into those situations, people will get hurt or die.

    Everyone knows that Tabke has the most creative lines in the whole tour, but this season he doesn't seem to be rewarded for it. I wish more skiers would go for creative lines rather that hucking big to tiny transitions over big exposure.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Judging one rider after another must be so hard. Although it's probably dumb for a number of reasons, I'd love to see a simultaneous, head to head contest (a la surfing). Has this ever been done in freeride comps?
    They do it as part of the Engadin Snow (St Moritz, CH), as an invitational. Don't really see the point.

    example:


    edit: actually that video above is some kind of team thing where they are supposed to work together somehow. It was a parallel head to head the year before. skiing starts about 4min in:

    Ich bitte dich nur, weck mich nicht.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by davieboot View Post
    Like any sport, there are going to be injuries from people pushing it too hard. Unlike most other sports, there are places where a fall can cause death. Limiting exposure is hugely important, and should be judged accordingly (not rewarded). If you are going to air, you shouldn't get more points if the LZ is more dangerous. If the judging pushes people into those situations, people will get hurt or die.

    Everyone knows that Tabke has the most creative lines in the whole tour, but this season he doesn't seem to be rewarded for it. I wish more skiers would go for creative lines rather that hucking big to tiny transitions over big exposure.
    Completely agree with you... Tabkes run I thought was awesome and he absolutely maximized the terrain to its fullest top to bottom... Compare that to Logan Pehotas run... I am not knocking his run at all and was completely floored by his hit off the small lip over rocks and than stomping it between a very tight landing zone... If the smallest of mistake was made that young man could have been in serious trouble... That one impressive line got him 2nd place and had to do tricks off of natural wind lips just to get some additional style points at the bottom of the course...

    I have seen two events live and to me the most exciting skiers to watch are those that use the entire mountain and ski it with speed and fluidity... What do I know though as I am just a weekend wanabe hack...!

  9. #59
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    Howz the snow in Austria for this weeks event?
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by davieboot View Post
    Like any sport, there are going to be injuries from people pushing it too hard. Unlike most other sports, there are places where a fall can cause death. Limiting exposure is hugely important, and should be judged accordingly (not rewarded). If you are going to air, you shouldn't get more points if the LZ is more dangerous. If the judging pushes people into those situations, people will get hurt or die.

    Everyone knows that Tabke has the most creative lines in the whole tour, but this season he doesn't seem to be rewarded for it. I wish more skiers would go for creative lines rather that hucking big to tiny transitions over big exposure.
    Totally agree. So so true.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    Moles is well known to be really big on good skiing vs. just sending it
    Pretty ironic given the way he competed in 1997. I know it's been a long time, but he made his name on sending the big sketchy air.

    don't take my word for it.... 55:20 of this vid

  12. #62
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    I can't find the link but there's a POV video of Pehota's line and it's fucking scary. And you hear him go "oh shit" as he crosses the ridge and the LZ comes into view. There is something to be said for being able to think on your feet and adjust even if you didn't scope things out perfectly.

    And yeah, these events suffer badly from recency bias. Being one of the first to go is a huge disadvantage as the judges don't have any perspective yet and early scores can suffer as a result. They should really go back and do video review at the end and make scoring adjustments, but that wouldn't make it all that fun as a spectator.

  13. #63
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    [QUOTE=TahoeJ;4679850]I can't find the link but there's a POV video of Pehota's line and it's fucking scary. And you hear him go "oh shit" as he crosses the ridge and the LZ comes into view. There is something to be said for being able to think on your feet and adjust even if you didn't scope things out perfectly.

    Do you mean this one...:

    http://sbcskier.com/fwt-pov-loganpehota/

  14. #64
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    [QUOTE=Undertow;4680047]
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    I can't find the link but there's a POV video of Pehota's line and it's fucking scary. And you hear him go "oh shit" as he crosses the ridge and the LZ comes into view. There is something to be said for being able to think on your feet and adjust even if you didn't scope things out perfectly.

    Do you mean this one...:

    http://sbcskier.com/fwt-pov-loganpehota/
    It's amazing how much more serious that line looks from POV.

  15. #65
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    Yeah, that was it. Of course he said "oh no" instead of oh shit or or fuck - such a polite Canadian. :-)



    Then you factor in that POV's tend to make terrain look way more mellow than reality (a 10 foot drop looks like a mogul) and that really puts it into perspective.
    Last edited by TahoeJ; 03-01-2016 at 02:23 PM.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  16. #66
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    FWIW there were 0 crashes in the men's ski division finals at the 4* last weekend. Something like 25 riders, no falls.

  17. #67
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    Pretty fun finals to watch. The only ski crashes I saw were into the snow fence at the bottom.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9K9...ature=youtu.be
    Good POV and extra clip of one of the top runs (that did not score well) in finals. Exciting stuff!

    Edit: Not my run.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
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    Howz the snow in Austria for this weeks event?
    still pretty thin. but then its definitely more than the last two years at fiberbrunn... dust on (very bad) crust at the moment, but supposed to snow more during the next days...

    freak~[&]

  19. #69
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    Relevant article re risk management and youth freeride programs. http://www.powder.com/stories/fwt-ro...HM6KZrvEpdZ.97
    sproing!

  20. #70
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    today's press release (some grumbling from FWQ people on social media about this, particularly over the relative importance given to ski men over all other categories.)

    "Lutry, Switzerland – Wednesday, March 2, 2016 – The Pro Freeriders Board (PFB) agreed to changes announced by the Freeride World Tour (FWT) on qualification pathway structure from the Freeride World Qualifier (FWQ) to the FWT. In addition, two representatives from each region of the FWQ have been given a seat on the PFB to ensure fair representation of all levels of the sport. These decisions have been made to ensure that the rider distribution demographics of the sport are coherent from the amateur to pro levels and to ensure the continued growth and positive development of the sport of freeride.

    Modification of Qualification Pathways for the Freeride World Tour
    In an effort to ensure better snow conditions for each rider, a more feasible operating window, a more appealing competition format for media exposure, and larger prizes from a constant cash purse, the FWT announced a reduction of riders on the FWT from 62 this season to 50 in 2017 and ultimately 46 in 2018.

    As a result of these changes, there is a need to adapt the number of available requalifying spots on the FWT for the upcoming seasons. Therefore, the number of riders requalifying for the FWT will evolve from 36 in 2016 to 33 in 2017 and 29 in 2018. Following the same logic, the number of wild cards will be reduced from 10 in 2016 to 5 in 2017 and 5 in 2018.

    To adhere to the anticipated number of athletes on the FWT, the FWT initially revised cuts for FWQ athletes attempting to qualify for the FWT by reducing the number of spots from 16 to 10 total FWQ riders. Members of the FWQ community expressed the fact that this cut may be too extreme. Because this decision is extremely important to the community and the future of the sport, the FWT has decided to reevaluate this decision.

    After the reevaluation and subsequent agreement by the PFB and industry partners, the FWT has determined that total of 12 FWQ riders will qualify for the FWT 2017 and 2018 seasons. These 12 riders will be composed of the top three ski men from each of the two regions and the top rider from each region in each of the other categories. This will result in 12 riders (or 26%) out of 46 total riders coming from the FWQ by 2018, which maintains the same proportion of riders coming from the FWQ as in 2016: 16 (or 26%) out of 62 riders.

    New Representation of the FWQ on the Pro Freeriders Board (PFB)
    In order to encourage strong links and the development of the sport between the FWQ and the FWT, two representatives from the FWQ will become permanent members of the PFB. The two new representatives will join the consulting board made up of eight of the most prominent FWT riders in the sport whose task is to voice their opinions and desires regarding the season calendar, competition format, ranking system, judging rules, and the fairness of the qualification pathway from the FWT through the FWQ.

    Interest in the FWT and the sport of freeride has experienced exponential growth over the past few years and is constantly evolving. The goals of these modifications are to develop the sport in a way that the highest level (FWT) reflects the composition of riders at the grassroots levels (FWQ/FJT). All of these decisions are being made to ensure the greatest possible future for the sport which depends on providing a legitimate and accessible pathway to the FWT as well as ensuring a logistically feasible format that promotes a successful, sustainable, and engaging competition experience.

    What will be the FWT competitors distribution in the coming years?

    2016
    27 ski men (16 FWT 2015, 6 FWQ 2015, 5 wild cards) top 14 qualify for 2017
    14 ski women (8 FWT 2015, 4 FWQ 2015, 2 wild cards) top 7 qualify for 2017
    14 snowboard men (8 FWT 2015, 4 FWQ 2015, 2 wild cards) top 7 qualify for 2017
    7 snowboard women (4 FWT 2015, 2 FWQ 2015, 1 wild card) top 5 qualify for 2017
    Total 62 riders

    2017
    22 ski men (14 FWT 2016, 6 FWQ 2016, 2 wild cards) top 13 qualify for 2018
    10 ski women (7 FWT 2016, 2 FWQ 2016, 1 wild card) top 6 qualify for 2018
    10 snowboard men (7 FWT 2016, 2 FWQ 2016, 1 wild card) top 6 qualify for 2018
    8 snowboard women (5 FWT 2016, 2 FWQ 2016, 1 wild card) top 4 qualify for 2018
    Total 50 riders

    2018
    21 ski men (13 FWT 2017, 6 FWQ 2017, 2 wild cards) top 13 qualify for 2019
    9 ski women (6 FWT 2017, 2 FWQ 2017, 1 wild card) top 6 qualify for 2019
    9 snowboard men (6 FWT 2017, 2 FWQ 2017, 1 wild card) top 6 qualify for 2019
    7 snowboard women (4 FWT 2017, 2 FWQ 2017, 1 wild card) top 4 qualify for 2019
    Total 46 riders"
    Ich bitte dich nur, weck mich nicht.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gone Skiing View Post
    FWIW there were 0 crashes in the men's ski division finals at the 4* last weekend. Something like 25 riders, no falls.
    That is amazing. Was it great conditions or a fluke?
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  22. #72
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    It kind of seems like things were better off when there were two separate tours and more slots to go around...

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by davieboot View Post
    That is amazing. Was it great conditions or a fluke?
    Full hardpack. 3 weeks since significant snow. Just guys riding within their limits.

  24. #74
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    That's nice to hear.
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    It kind of seems like things were better off when there were two separate tours and more slots to go around...
    And also, I miss having events in the lower 48. All in Europe and just one in Alaska now. Kinda lame. This would've been a great year for them to be back at Kirkwood, for example. The Cirque was good to go in early February back around they time they used to host it.

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