Trucks.

[El Chupacabra]

Right, but I don't think it's any stretch to say the reason was largely cost. GM has always been cheapest hp/$. The other engines could do the same thing, it was just more expensive to get there. Shelby, Sunbeam, De Tomaso weren't technically swaps but they all used Ford engines.

Agreed it became a matter of cost, because the SBC became the easiest engine to build into whatever output you wanted - - but this was because that's what the aftermarket supported from the 327 to the 350 and onward.

[Danno]

I feel like I need a spreadsheet to evaluate the Ford v GMC v Dodge debate. Seems like everyone has strong opinions but the opinions don't align.

[Foggy_Goggles]

It's just like tools, pick one brand and be a dick about it. Honestly, the biggest thing is the new ones are all so expensive. But so is fixing them. My rode hard put away wet work truck might need a new trans. $9k

So if you don't need one, don't buy one. If you do need one, buy what you like and cross your fingers.

If one was substantially better than the others, you'd know about it.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[BCMtnHound]

So if you don't need one, don't buy one. If you do need one, buy what you like and cross your fingers.

This most of all. Most buy a pickup for maybe 10% of actual pickup need.

For work, full-size experience given cost and general performance on forestry roads, moderate loads/towing, Ford > chev/GM > Toyota > Dodge. Base trim models.

[AdironRider]

I like my shit to work every time, so fall in the Toyota camp on a light duty pickup. The resale is also spectacular and they are actually pretty price competitive new compared to big 3 these days and in many comparable trims cheaper. That said they don't have the ability to option nearly as much so if their preset offerings don't give you what you want then go with a big 3. I personally think Chevy powertrains offset their crappy interiors. The RAM 1500 line is the best new out of the box but typical Ram reliability problems occur quickly so would avoid.

If going HD, and typically by default diesel, just get the Ram with a Cummins.

There are very few substitutes for when you need a truck, and renting is a PITA. If you want a truck get it, most people don't regret it. That 10% of the time its a need not a want IMO and having one vehicle is by default more efficient/cheaper than having multiple vehicles to purchase/maintain/etc.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Buddy just blow'd up a Tundra at 130k. They are pretty nice grocery getters. But the value proposition is Fan Boi. But hey, atleast you got that be a dick about part it down.

The durability/reliability think comes into play from dirt roads, towing/hauling heavy and general giv'n 'r

No different from any other modern whip. They tend to last forever if you baby 'em.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[El Chupacabra]

For personal use, IMHO a big part of it comes down to familiarity and willingness to DIY repairs. I'm sure there are people out there who love 1980s Audi or VW products, because they've lived with them forever and can fix anything on them. I have no such familiarity and would avoid them like the plague. GM gas trucks, however, I can fix easily and cheaply. If you can't or won't do your own repairs, buy new and buy an extended warranty, and sell when the warranty is up.

I still think I'd avoid stuff that tends to break, and break expensively when it goes. Diesel HPFP/ lift pumps, for example -- but I also have no need for modern diesel levels of towing capability, so that's the tradeoff you have to make for buying any modern 3/4 to 1-ton diesel.

It's anecdotal, but I know 3 people with GM diesels in their 1/2-ton trucks -- and while they all love the MPG, two of the three have had major engine failures already. All covered under warranty since they're fairly new, but that sort of shit scares me for long-term ownership.

[AdironRider]

Buddy just blow'd up a Tundra at 130k. They are pretty nice grocery getters. But the value proposition is Fan Boi. But hey, atleast you got that be a dick about part it down.

The durability/reliability think comes into play from dirt roads, towing/hauling heavy and general giv'n 'r

No different from any other modern whip. They tend to last forever if you baby 'em.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

I'd argue that a Tundra blowing up at 130k would be an outlier vs. say a Ram blowing up at 130k but I certainly agree it really depends on how hard you run the things.

If buying a new 1500 level truck, you are going to be hard pressed to have a Toyota be anything but the cheapest to own once you take into account resale at the end. Big 3 pricing post pandemic is crazy. For example, a Ram 1500 Limited is going to run approx 5k more MSRP than a comparable Tundra Platinum and you know for sure that Tundra is going to have better resale. I'll freely admit they aren't everyone's cup o tea which is reflected in annual sales numbers.

[BCMtnHound]

FWIW, the bean counters in charge of fleet purchase have mostly gone away from 1/2 ton pickups for the work trucks in favour of compacts like colorados and tacomas. Most of the big trucks (2ton and 5ton) that are diesel are Ford. The 3/4 and 1ton gassers are mostly Ford and Chev. Seems the only dept that still get dodge pickups is the engineering dept, which fits with their egos.

And ya, my cost & reliability rec is based on dozens of trucks over the past 2 decades. Consulting on my own and not with a crew in the 80’s & 90’s was Toyota P/U hands down. Any brand these days can produce a lemon. And the trucks coming into the yard built in the past 2yrs are generally shit compared to pre-COVID.

[bennymac]

I know you guys are more focused on the engine and the overall reliability (appropriately) - but I rented a new Ram 1500 for a week to help my Mom move and the audio system in that truck was a total piece of shit. You would have to go through a series of 5-6 on screen button presses - each one followed by ten seconds of waiting - in order to get a podcast to play off an iphone - and it didn’t matter whether it was over Bluetooth or wired in via USB.

And if you had a podcast playing when you turned the truck off well then when you started it back up the audio would immediately turn on blasting static noise from a random radio frequency (since it would no longer be connected to the phone you were previously using)

I’m ranting here - but it was the level of sophistication and performance I’d expect in a 2010 system. It did not have CarPlay or android auto. I guess if all you listen to is FM radio it’d be fine. It also didn’t have heated seats (not that I needed them).

Rant over

[east or bust]

I don’t own it, but have a decent amount of miles in 2018 Tundra 5.7, TRD offroad trim, and for an around town truck it fits the bill for most things.

It’s absolutely not what I’d want if payload or towing mattered though. Towed an airstream (the smallest one) from SLC-Driggs and it couldn’t keep up with traffic (75mph) without being at 3k RPMs.


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[Foggy_Goggles]

So yeah, which truck is best is almost as obsurd as asking what car is best. What works for you doesn't make all the other choices objectively bad.

[simple]

The obvious answer is that the best truck is the most expensive truck. That's the facts yo. In that case Toyota will never win sorry.

Somewhere a Nissan Titan owner is crying because their friends don't respect their truck no matter what the POV

[zion zig zag]

The FD has been exclusively F-450’s for the rescues and ambulances for longer than I’ve been there. We try to trade them out at 150k miles but they regularly go over 200k while waiting for the new ones/boxes, etc. Those are 200k hard miles with lots of full-throttle acceleration, last second braking for lights and disregard for rough roads. I rarely see engine or transmission failure in them.

Other than that my experience has been one Chevy that started having oil pressure issues at around 125k that no one could seem to fix and the Tacoma that I traded it for. The Tacoma is about as much truck as I need. Better off road than a full size, rarely tow or have back seat passengers and can haul what I need for regular homeowner needs, including wet/dirty/dead things that I wouldn’t want in a minivan. Last week I picked up two sheets of 4x8 ply wood and 6 2x6x10’s and had to get a little creative, but that’s what ratchet straps are for. If I did that regularly I’d get a bigger truck, but I don’t

[Cruiser]

Got pretty wet in the gladiator with the roof and doors off on the way home from work this afternoon when the skies opened about 2 miles from my house. Good trouble...

[Hood26]

I didn’t ask which rigs are better.

I asked if anyone ever traded brand loyalty.

[teleee]

I didn’t ask which rigs are better.

I asked if anyone ever traded brand loyalty.

I think you have your answer.


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[El Chupacabra]

I didn’t ask which rigs are better.

I asked if anyone ever traded brand loyalty.

I don't have brand loyalty with trucks, mostly disloyalty.

Otherwise, the best built vehicles are Japan built Toyota or Lexus products. Not US built or anywhere else.

[BCMtnHound]

… the best built vehicles are Japan built Toyota or Lexus products. Not US built or anywhere else.

It’s been just over 15yrs since my ‘85 toyota p/u was retired due to the rust demons, and she still remains the standard by which I compare all other trucks since. The only grief she ever caused me was due to my own ineptitude, and the amount of forgiveness she gave even then was astounding.

[ötzi]

My Chevy K2500 turned 20 this year and is running strong but it's super light duty. It's overkill but it's been paid for for 15 years.

[Foggy_Goggles]

I buy red tools now so I guess anything is possible!

Among my friends of contractors, rednecks, dirtbags, ballers, skiers, snowmobilers and so on I don't think anyone has any brand loyalty. Everything is less relabile, lower quality and a shit ton more expensive that it used to be.

[Hopeless Sinner]

I'm brand loyal to the Toyota in the 1/2 ton size and GM on 3/4 and up. I did buy a pre covid 2020 Ford Explorer and it's been almost flawless.......I swore off Ford decades ago, but it's been a pleasant surprise.

[oldnew_guy]

Some one explain wheel spacers and wide tires to me.

Is there some actual benefit to having your tires 6 inches outside your fenders?

[snowaddict91]

Easier to run over road cyclists without getting your truck dented.

[Self Jupiter]

I use wheel spacers to run winter wheels and tires that are narrower than OEM stock. They can be a pain in the ass to find. Never owned a truck though.