Trucks.

[gravitylover]

So the Ram is seemingly more reliable because their owners have dui's and the trucks stay parked for months or years...

[Pinned]

It's new truck season over in my house. I have been/am a die hard Toyota fan, and have planned to get the 2022 Tundra for a while now.

Fast forward to reality, my current truck is out. I could probably get another year out of it but I'm over it, and its still worth 'something'. Issue is 2022 Tundras are impossible to find in the configuration I want ( Limited, crew cab, long box, tow mirrors) its one of these "give us a deposit and we'll call you if we eventually get something close to what you want maybe 3 months maybe a year" situations that makes me irrationally angry.

Today I got bored and found a used F-150 that is the exact truck I want only a Ford. Its relatively close, I could go pick it up tomorrow, and while still effing expensive it's probably 6k+ less than the Tundra. Admittedly I like the Ford interior better too.

Question is, am I going to regret getting a Ford? Had the last truck for 12 years and haven't done anything unscheduled to it despite straight up abusing it. I probably won't keep this one as long as the last one, but reliability and resale are very important to me.


Not trying to turn this into a whole brand thing, these are honest questions. I have spent exactly zero minutes paying any attention to American trucks in the past 5 years, so maybe they don't suck as much as I like to make fun of them for?

https://www.zeiglerfordesp.com
or
https://www.floodfordesp.com

Get the longest warranty you can and don't worry about it. The 3.5L Ecoboost w/ 10sp is awesome. F150 drives so well. Have had a few and love them.

If you don't care about the fuel economy at all, the RAMs are pretty nice. They're much less expensive than the Fords (seemingly easier to find at a deal). Interior fit / finish isn't as good as the Fords but still well laid out and functional. Ride is great too.

[This End Up]

I’m still pretty confused why we don’t see more plug-in hybrids especially in trucks that have payload capacity for a little more battery and would likely see a lot of in-town work use. Getting say 50 miles off an electric charge and then transitioning to the hybrid would be huge win for emissions plus allow you to still do a 500 mile weekend road trip towing with the hybrid mode.

This seems to be what Fiat/Jeep is doing with their new 4xe Wranglers and Grand Cherokees. You can plug it in and reportedly get 40ish miles on the battery. Most models have some kind of AWD. The Grand Cherokee has "Select Terrain", which is some computer controlled BS I don't understand, but is likely fine for driving on snowy roads. Most of the Wrangler models have a "Select Trac" system which has a "4H auto" setting according to the pic below.




I bought a Grand Cherokee back in 2001 because it had a "Select Trac" system with a NVP-242 transfer case. This modern version looks like something different with "4H auto" instead of the old "4H Full Time". The modern version looks like a transfer case with computer controlled clutch packs like those in many modern pickup trucks. The old system was a simple mechanical open center differential. Oh well, it's still an AWD type of system with some electrification/hybridization.

I'd give Fiat a few years to work out the bugs before I'd consider buying one.

[MarcusBrody]

How did the F150, the number one selling vehicle in America, avoid that list entirely? Fascinating.

Well this is per 1000 insurance applications for the vehicle, so how many F150s are out there doesn't really affect things.

[BFD]

I have a 2020 Ford f150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost. Drove it from Colorado to Alaska and back this summer. Averaged 17 mpg with a slide in camper. Camper was about 1200lbs and 76" high. Truck had plenty of power to pass and carried the load no problem. Have 42000 miles on it now. One issue has come up. There is a cardboard like belly pan that protects the transmission cooler. It broke from it's attachment and one corner was hanging. I wired it up but need to replace. Kind of strange they used a fiber instead of a metal. But am very happy it is working out as planned for my use. 36 gallon tank gives the truck over 700 miles of range. 12000 lb towing capacity. No problem towing a mini ex the other day.

[frorider]

Well this is per 1000 insurance applications for the vehicle, so how many F150s are out there doesn't really affect things.

Think about it some more. Statistics like these are noisy, so look at patterns. We all saw it was per 1000; step back a bit & observe that pickups dominate the list, along with a couple of cars that a douchey guy might drive. So there’s a certain male driver correlation. What’s the number one pickup — or vehicle — in America? The fact that it didn’t get on the list indicates either the f150 ‘just missed’ getting on the list, or the list and and general conclusions from it are shaky.

[snowaddict91]

I'm with Ted, its because there are a gazillion fleet/work F150s out there. Certainly more than any other half ton.

[frorider]

GM and Ford duke it out in that market despite the lower margins. Last I read data, GM sells around 8 fleet ‘trucks’ for every 10 fleet Fords sold. But this kind of data includes vans, cutaways, etc.

Anyway, moving on…so far I like gravitylovers observation the best

[Ted Striker]

Yeah, GL FTW. Picturing an impound lot with its own Ram section. Like VIP or First Class, but the opposite.

[XXX-er]

up here yer bearded/ convoy loving/ anti covid conservative pipeliner with the "fuck Trudeau" sticker has it on the back window of a black dodge PU

[Yukonrider]

Fuck car dealers. Trying to buy a car in the last few weeks has been the biggest fuck you I've ever had to suffer through.

What do you mean you don't know how much it tows? Fucking find out.
What do you mean "you get what you get" on interest rates? Fucking give me a range.

I hope all these assholes get cleaned out in the coming recession, but that would mean my used value drops. Whatever, eat a bag of dicks.

/rant

[heckacali]

^agreed.
Direct to consumer is the only viable future. Stealerships can remain "factory" service centers.
Salespeople suck in general, regardless of industry.
Sorry salesmags, but you know it's true, and you all joke with others salesfolk about it.

[Yukonrider]

Fuck car dealers. Trying to buy a car in the last few weeks has been the biggest fuck you I've ever had to suffer through.

What do you mean you don't know how much it tows? Fucking find out.
What do you mean "you get what you get" on interest rates? Fucking give me a range.

I hope all these assholes get cleaned out in the coming recession, but that would mean my used value drops. Whatever, eat a bag of dicks.

/rant

This was before I made a $2000 below sticker offer (on a $54k truck thats been on the lot for 3 months) and the salesman ACTUALLY OUT LOUD laughed at me and hung up.

I'll be drinking if anyone needs me.

[anotherVTskibum]

I have a 2020 Ford f150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost. Drove it from Colorado to Alaska and back this summer. Averaged 17 mpg with a slide in camper. Camper was about 1200lbs and 76" high. Truck had plenty of power to pass and carried the load no problem. Have 42000 miles on it now. One issue has come up. There is a cardboard like belly pan that protects the transmission cooler. It broke from it's attachment and one corner was hanging. I wired it up but need to replace. Kind of strange they used a fiber instead of a metal. But am very happy it is working out as planned for my use. 36 gallon tank gives the truck over 700 miles of range. 12000 lb towing capacity. No problem towing a mini ex the other day.

The diaper is a common complaint. I'm pretty sure it's a bit of aero and nose reduction more than anything else.

If you want to get fancy, RCI metalworks makes a nice set of skid plates that replace those factory diapers. They're not cheap but do go in sale periodically.

Sent from my SM-G892A using TGR Forums mobile app

[AdironRider]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...increase-msrp/

Ford has jacked the base Lightning MSRP 30 percent in under a year. 50 plus grand and sub 100 mile towing range for a base model WORK truck is exhibit A as to why electric vehicles are not a long term workable solution.

[Mazderati]

Sensationalist take is sensationalist.

[Name Redacted]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...increase-msrp/

Ford has jacked the base Lightning MSRP 30 percent in under a year. 50 plus grand and sub 100 mile towing range for a base model WORK truck is exhibit A as to why electric vehicles are not a long term workable solution.

It is still early in the technology lifecycle. But yeah fuck Ford.

[Harry]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...increase-msrp/

Ford has jacked the base Lightning MSRP 30 percent in under a year. 50 plus grand and sub 100 mile towing range for a base model WORK truck is exhibit A as to why electric vehicles are not a long term workable solution.

What’s your definition of “long term” ?

[AdironRider]

Exactly what you think it is.

EV's are expensive and getting much more so. The materials required for the battery production are horrible to mine and destroy the earth, and have supply constraints none the less. The battery performance is not improving. They take forever to charge and cold/load performance is laughable. The infrastructure required to power them is not there. Used values are a joke because once the battery goes its a boat anchor. The laws of physics don't change.

The average age of a car in the US is over 12 years old. There isn't a single EV that has a battery that is going to make it that long under real world conditions and not require a five figure repair bill, which for someone who owns a 12 year old car is impossible to take on.

I know this is TGR, but Moore's law isn't fixing this shit. EVs have existed believe it or not since the early 1900's and the same problems still exist and while the rich dentists of TGR love their electric status symbols the real world isn't changing and you aren't overcoming these problems.

Ford just outright showed you that the affordable ev is never happening with this price increase. Nevermind a base Ford f150 Lightning, would cost over 50 bucks to charge fully at my house in NH, and those electrons come from burning natural gas. That's an equivalent equal to the cost of gas with no net gain to the environment.

[oldnew_guy]

Notably missing from this discussion are cost of purchasing a similarly outfitted ICE truck, price increases for comparable ICE vehicles in general, cost of ownership over the lifetime of the vehicle, trickle down effect of technological innovation in high end vehicles (see: blind spot detection, hands free Bluetooth calling, backup cameras, etc), honest comparison of impacts of battery material extraction versus impacts of oil extraction (no clue here, certainly curious), etc.

[Conundrum]

There's always someone who will tell you what won't work. And typically doesn't have any other thoughts for solutions to fix root problems.

[skaredshtles]

There's always someone who will tell you what won't work. And typically doesn't have any other thoughts for solutions to fix root problems.

One of my father's favorite pieces of poetry:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poe...ouldnt-be-done

[AdironRider]

I could go full cynical and say there are no solutions without rolling back about 70% of the gains seen since the start of the industrial revolution.

Or, realistically, you could look at hydrogen fueled vehicles in combination with a nationwide shift to nuclear as a start.

But the reality is unless the entire world gets on the same page all this effort to preserve the environment is a pointless venture. Good luck telling China or Russia to slow their roll, let alone the entire developing world they don't even get to try and get a piece of the pie.

[Conundrum]

I was worried we would suffer a Benny vacuum. Happy to see people are willing to chip in.

[AdironRider]

Pie in the sky thinking is not a solution champ.

The supply constraints are real. The changes to electric infrastructure aren't happening without a massive shift in the current regulatory environment required to support them.

Most importantly, the you cannot change the laws of physics, which the is the requirement to see the changes to battery performance you claim will happen. Full stop.