Trucks.

[anotherVTskibum]

By this definition, almost zero full size 4x4 pickup trucks sold in North America have transfer cases. Anything with a 4A setting uses dual-clutch, not mechanical lock. And just about all pickups sold today, other than stripped down base models, have the 4A setting.
.

Ahem. I'd like to defend the honor of the many F-150 XLT owners and point out that our trucks are not base models, we paid for that damn "T" in the trim designation, but we definitely don't get the dual -clutch auto 4 option.

Ford also deletes the 4A setup from higher-trim models if equipped with the plow prep package.

*: The above was true for the 15-20 models. A quick Google suggests it probably remains true but I'm not quite sure.

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[Name Redacted]

Who’s talking about off-roading in a Bronco Sport ? I’m talking about driving in inclement weather.

Gonna get cold when that windshield falls out.

[frorider]

People in the thread were making posts indicating confusion about the Badlands version of the bronco Sport in an off road context. It’s irrelevant whether Name Redacted cares, unless this is one if those threads were one person decides what is relevant. With everyone wanting to overland their Outbacks and Crosstreks, or pretend to, apparently there is a market. Just because my own preference is part time 4WD with hi lo transfer case doesn’t mean I can’t imagine others thinking differently.

The 2.7 valve issues in certain production runs of the Bronco may well turn out to be supplier QA issues….that engine has been fine in the F150 for years now. Or Maybe the bronco oil pan design fucked things up. We’ll see.

Didn’t Wranglers have some shitty welds leading to control arm issues a year or two ago?

It’s all over priced shit for the most part. Pick your poison.

[El Chupacabra]

By this definition, almost zero full size 4x4 pickup trucks sold in North America have transfer cases. Anything with a 4A setting uses dual-clutch, not mechanical lock. And just about all pickups sold today, other than stripped down base models, have the 4A setting.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree here again. Any truck with a full time (auto 4WD) setting, that also has a 4-high and 4-low, has a transfer case. And dual clutch makes no sense inside a t case. It'll be a planetary gearset that can be locked 50/50. It may have a clutch system (like Torsen) or may not.

There are some vehicles with a transfer case and only full time 4WD, essentially an AWD system. Jeep makes some. IIRC the Escalade is like this.

Most heavy duty pickup trucks do not have a full time 4WD option. I think some GM ones do.

[east or bust]

It's a fair point. But in the offroad world, the only car that is better in terms of reliability is the 4Runner, which drives substantially worse both on and off road (it's still a very good off road car, to be fair, just not nearly as good as a Trailhawk Wrangler or GC.) All the others: Range Rover, Land Rover Disco, Bronco, Land Cruiser, MB G Class - they are all substantially worse for reliability.

So you either go super reliable but not so nice and capable (4Runner) or a step down in reliability but super nice and capable (GC.). Or you just get something that you really like and you have enough money to not care (the others.)

Also, if you look at consumer reports, each GC generation has steadily climbed the reliability ratings. The 4th gen was not superb, but was still pretty good. If this 5th gen goes up one more notch it will be a very reliable car. And this 5th gen has been out in the wild for 18 months with good reliability reports so far.

I did some homework before purchase...

Gotta come back to this and ask what your metrics of “capability” are?

What puts a unibody SUV ahead of a proven traditional body on frame? No dog in this fight for me, just a pretty bold claim to be making.

[EWG]

Gotta come back to this and ask what your metrics of “capability” are?

What puts a unibody SUV ahead of a proven traditional body on frame? No dog in this fight for me, just a pretty bold claim to be making.

Definitely a fair question. Even the Land Rover Defender switched to unibody 2 years ago. Unibodies are now good enough that it’s not relevant to a capability discussion IMO.

Most importantly, they made a bunch of changes moving from the 4th Gen to the 5th GC. Clearance went up to 11.3” on the gas model. Wading depth went to 24”. They added disconnectable sway bars and redid the front and rear ramp angles to provide more approach clearance. 360 degree off road cameras stock. Pitch and roll diagrams on screen. Rock crawl auto drive. Most of this stuff is aftermarket for other vehicles. When they made the changes it took an off road capable car and made it a true off road vehicle. (Not bothering with all the stuff that all the vehicles have like locking elsd, two speed transfer etc. that’s should all be standard.)

Like I said, we started with the assumption that we’d get a 4 Runner, but after way too much research it seemed clear, to me at least, that the Jeep would be nicer on road and had better features and technical capability off road as a stock vehicle.

Capability in this case is medium to slow speed technical and/or rough mountain and desert driving. No safaris or high speed off road races. Just getting places I want to be.

[muted reborn]

Wife is ditching the VW Atlas after years of feeling 'meh' about it and also two recent off road sagas in Bears Ears with it. It's a piece of shit off road basically, before I thought it was good enough, shit I was very wrong.

She had a 4Runner and loved it, and is considering a new one, do I even dare point her to a GC to test ride? If she buys one and it's a dud, can I say it's some random dude on the internet's fault named EWG?

[tgapp]

I recognize that I might be a minority in this thread, but I got a new Hyundai Santa Cruz and it's pretty much the perfect vehicle for my use cases. It's basically a Subaru Baja with a tonneau cover, in-bed storage options (it's got a secret, lockable cooler under the bed), very functional back seats, and half decent towing capacity (5,000lbs). I average 27mpg in mixed driving conditions (70/30 highway/city), it's got decent ground clearance (10" IIRC), and while it's only AWD, it does some clever "fake" locking differential things electronically. Is it the same as 4wd? No. Is it a real truck? Also no. Do I need a real truck? Definitely no, but I can fit 5 or 6 full sized plywood sheets in the bed with the gate down, and it has a nifty gate extender thing too.

Anyway, I haven't posted much about it because I figured I would get flamed to shit since it's not a tacoma and I can't drive hell's revenge in it and i guess that's the standard for "truckiness" around this parts. But I fucking love it.

Oh and - I got it for MSRP with the features I wanted with no waiting or other bullshit. So yeah there's that.

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
I can't drive hell's revenge in it

I'd bet dollars to donuts you CAN.

[EWG]

I don't disagree with you often, but when I do...

I'll make you a deal. You edit out your comments on Land Cruisers and reliability, and I'll delete my post. Just trying to be a bro here.

https://www.iseecars.com/articles/most-reliable-suvs

Absolutely right. I was typing too fast. Land Cruisers are super reliable - but no longer sold in North America. Post edited.

[EWG]

Wife is ditching the VW Atlas after years of feeling 'meh' about it and also two recent off road sagas in Bears Ears with it. It's a piece of shit off road basically, before I thought it was good enough, shit I was very wrong.

She had a 4Runner and loved it, and is considering a new one, do I even dare point her to a GC to test ride? If she buys one and it's a dud, can I say it's some random dude on the internet's fault named EWG?

You certainly can, but you need to realize that there is a long list of people in front of you blaming me for stuff, so it's kind of a "take a number" situation. It may be a while before you get to the counter.

[gravitylover]

Haha

[Mazderati]

Just getting places I want to be.

"A Jeep will get you where you want to go. A Land Cruiser will get you back."

[simple]

I think that Hyundai Santa Cruz is cool looking. Don't know shit about it. My wife didn't like it but she hates all new cars

[bodywhomper]

If people are really going to fork over the bank for a new land cruiser, it looks like at 310 series is (will be?) available in NA in several trim lines of LX and the 150 series is still available as the GX.

As trucks and bigger SUVs migrate to electric, body-on-frame may go away. Now how about a unibody electric minivan that’s off road “capable,” like the old b-o-f hiace?

[east or bust]

The main thing I don’t understand with short beds (<6’)…. wtf do you do with your skis? And don’t try to sell me on that hypotenuse shit.


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[Conundrum]

Salomon BBRs don't come in longer lengths.

[jmedslc]

This TRUCK thread really got thrunted up lately.

Does anyone know if Telemark skis fit in a gen x four runner? Or any of the other stupid suvs mentioned above in the truck thread? I’m not clear on this.

[Mustonen]

This TRUCK thread really got thrunted up lately.

Does anyone know if Telemark skis fit in a gen x four runner? Or any of the other stupid suvs mentioned above in the truck thread? I’m not clear on this.

Unfortunately, no. Subarus are the only vehicles that can property accommodate telemark skis. If you put a few stickers on them and grow an ironic mustache you can get them into a Toyota 4Runner, but not in anything longer than a 175.

[Dantheman]

The main thing I donÂ’t understand with short beds (<6Â’)Â…. wtf do you do with your skis? And donÂ’t try to sell me on that hypotenuse shit.

After mocking short beds for years, circumstances forced me into a 5.5' bed in December. Going diagonal with skis has proved to be a non-issue. 194 Sender Squads have room to spare.

[The Reverend Floater]

Definitely a fair question. Even the Land Rover Defender switched to unibody 2 years ago. Unibodies are now good enough that it’s not relevant to a capability discussion IMO.
.

1. Land Rovers haven't been the gold standard for off road engineering nor construction in quite some time. Hence, the birth of the Ineos Grenadier. There is a hole in the market (especially European) where Land Rover Discos used to sit and it's been empty so long, an entirely new brand and product was conceptualized, designed and developed. My friend in Austria has driven one and knows owners, and by all accounts, they are a bombproof, legitimate, modern Defender 110.

2. Comparing Jeep Grand Anything and Toyota Land Cruisers with the word reliability is positively asinine. I mean, I see the new GC's all over town and they nailed the styling and buttons and gizmos and clit-heaters. But I'd wager my left nut against your $100 that their average lifespan won't be anywhere near that of a Land Cruiser of any vintage. Not even close.

[AdironRider]

I think if you controlled for the average maintenance habits of a Grand Cherokee owner (middle class clueless housewife) with the maintenance habits of a Land Cruiser owner (old money 4th or 5th vehicle in the stable by pendantic trust funders with time and money on their hands) the reliability questions would be closer than you think.

[Conundrum]

You drive a Jeep huh?

[bodywhomper]

After mocking short beds for years, circumstances forced me into a 5.5' bed in December. Going diagonal with skis has proved to be a non-issue. 194 Sender Squads have room to spare.

Used to fit 192 lotus 138 frequently inside a Nissan Altima. With blizzaks, a “4wd” decal, and just enough momentum, the thing rallied many extended low-snow level Tahoe winter storm cycles.

[EWG]

I think if you controlled for the average maintenance habits of a Grand Cherokee owner (middle class clueless housewife) with the maintenance habits of a Land Cruiser owner (old money 4th or 5th vehicle in the stable by pendantic trust funders with time and money on their hands) the reliability questions would be closer than you think.

2. Comparing Jeep Grand Anything and Toyota Land Cruisers with the word reliability is positively asinine. I mean, I see the new GC's all over town and they nailed the styling and buttons and gizmos and clit-heaters. But I'd wager my left nut against your $100 that their average lifespan won't be anywhere near that of a Land Cruiser of any vintage. Not even close.

I agree with Floater here: IMO the Land Cruiser is the gold standard of off road reliability (my typo below aside). You pay for that for sure, but it's a great off road vehicle. As of 2021 they weren't selling them in America anymore (though a comment below says maybe they will again?).

But assuming you can't get a Land Cruiser anymore, that's when I think a 5th Gen Jeep GC holds it's own in terms of reliability against anything else you can get in a true off road vehicle readily available in the US, and based on recent reports, it seems to be the most reliable with the possible exception of the 4 Runner. And the 4 Runner, I believe, is at this point an outdated SUV that's been based by both on and off road. I assume Toyota will fix that at the next update.

One of the things that's difficult to fight against is historical bias. Just because something used to be a certain way does not mean it still is that way. Ask Volant.