Bread Baking (sourdough)

[mattig]

For basic bread, the kind of stuff that people call "artisan" bread or more accurately lean bread (ie no fats added, just water, flour, and salt) I do it all by hand, although I find that using a silicone spatula for the initial mixing keeps things a lot cleaner and saves me from having to wash a ton of sticky flour down the drain. For enriched dough, like cinnamon rolls, doughnuts, brioche, etc, I use a the kitchenaid.

Thank you. This is basically where I'm at as well. Much easier to use water to keep hands clean after using spatula for initial mixing.

[schuss]

With Tartine recipes I find there's a pretty wide range of correction for weather that's not NorCal.
If you have a nice vigorous starter, make sure you do the appropriate folds in the first few hours and don't be afraid to let bulk ferm go longer than recommended if you're not maintaining 75-80 degree temps. Alternatively put it in the oven with just the light on.

Also, don't be afraid to do a little sprinkle of commercial yeast in your sourdough. I do like a 16th of a teaspoon and it helps a lot with spring.
Additionally, I sometimes shape 2-3 times if the dough isn't keeping good shape.

[tgapp]

With Tartine recipes I find there's a pretty wide range of correction for weather that's not NorCal.
If you have a nice vigorous starter, make sure you do the appropriate folds in the first few hours and don't be afraid to let bulk ferm go longer than recommended if you're not maintaining 75-80 degree temps. Alternatively put it in the oven with just the light on.

Also, don't be afraid to do a little sprinkle of commercial yeast in your sourdough. I do like a 16th of a teaspoon and it helps a lot with spring.
Additionally, I sometimes shape 2-3 times if the dough isn't keeping good shape.

this is all super helpful, thank you.

i have good crumb (good bread holes and texture) and good crust, but my loaves come out flat and they definitely don't hold shape. very little oven spring.

any other advice for good spring and nice, taught loves?

[schuss]

Practice your shaping game and make sure you have a vigorous starter (like, frothy) or dope with commercial yeast. Sometimes I shape 2-3 times. Also be gentle and conserve those gas bubbles.
That said I'm a hack at this, just have made adjustments as Tartines directions are often optimistic/incomplete for beginners.

[SB]

Went back to flour the heck out of the Blanton since I was getting stickage with plastic wrap. It stuck anyway and fell into a searing hot Dutch oven crooked. Straightened it up best I could.

Turned out ok.

New high moisture dough mix seems to be fine and decided to use a bit of turbinado sugar to give the yeast starter a boost, 2 tablespoons worth.

[KQ]

Went back to flour the heck out of the Blanton since I was getting stickage with plastic wrap. It stuck anyway and fell into a searing hot Dutch oven crooked. Straightened it up best I could.

Turned out ok.

New high moisture dough mix seems to be fine and decided to use a bit of turbinado sugar to give the yeast starter a boost, 2 tablespoons worth.

Do you have a liner in your Brotform?

I have these and they work great:

Farielyn-X 2 Packs 9 Inch Bread Banneton Proofing Basket

[SB]

Dang it. I knew there was something I was forgetting.

Can you remind me next time I make bread?

[schuss]

Yep, well floured linen is the way

[yogachik]

I use my KitchenAid Artisan mixer and the whole process is super easy, but yesterday tried a fully hand mixed loaf, that took about 7 hours of being home to fold every hour. I won't repeat that process, I felt too tied to the kitchen counter.


Here's the recipe I always follow (one loaf)

Keep your starter refrigerated until you are going to use it. Try to keep about 50 grams. The night before you want to start making bread take the starter out and add 60 grams of 80° water and 60 grams of flour. Mix thoroughly. Leave out covered loosely in a warmish place in your kitchen.

In the morning your starter should have doubled in size and be lively and bubbly. To test whether it is ready take a bowl of lukewarm water and drop in a spoonful. If it floats it is ready to use. Place a large bowl on your scale and measure out 400 grams of bread flour and 100 grams of whole wheat flour

Remove that bowl from scale and place mixmaster bowl on scale. Measure 100 grams of your sourdough starter and 350 grams of 80° water. Take a spatula and stir it until starter breaks up.

Pour flour into mixmaster bowl and stir with spatula until most of the flour is moist . It should look like a shaggy mess.
Cover with a dish towel and leave out for 35 minutes

Place mixer bowl on mixer and attach bread hook. Sprinkle 10 grams of salt into the bowl. Turn mixer to low and mix for ten minutes.

Turn dough on to a clean smooth surface, You will now perform a series of three “slap and folds.” Since you have already done ten minutes in mix master you only need to do four or five folds. Cover the dough with a dish towel and repeat the “slap and fold” technique” twice more at 10 minute intervals.

Move dough into a large bowl (preferably glass so you can see the bubbles as the dough proofs and let it rise until the sides are all bubbly and it has doubled in size. This can take anywhere from three to five hours depending on the temperature in your kitchen.

Now it is time to shape your dough. Pour dough onto counter. Go to you tube and watch a video about “shaping dough.” Once you have shaped your dough, place in banetton and refrigerate over night covered with towel.

[KQ]

I use my KitchenAid Artisan mixer and the whole process is super easy, but yesterday tried a fully hand mixed loaf, that took about 7 hours of being home to fold every hour. I won't repeat that process, I felt too tied to the kitchen counter.

That's a good looking loaf. Curious about folding as much as you did - I only fold twice in the first 1.5hrs of a 5hr. rise. Seems to be sufficient as I a nice rise and great crumb.

[yogachik]

It was something I found on YouTube - and thought I'd give it a try. The appeal was keeping the levain separate from the autolyse for the first hour.

This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTTynk20KCI&t=614s

[SB]

Kewl video

T4S

[KQ]

Dang it. I knew there was something I was forgetting.

Can you remind me next time I make bread?

Are you being facetious? Did I miss where you said you had liners already?

It was something I found on YouTube - and thought I'd give it a try. The appeal was keeping the levain separate from the autolyse for the first hour.

This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTTynk20KCI&t=614s

Interesting! Thanks for sharing.

[SB]

I do have one, instructions seemed to indicate to put it over the bowl once dough was inside. Probably miss read it and been doing it wrong since.

Bad habits hard to break.

Making bread inspire of myself.

[KQ]

I do have one, instructions seemed to indicate to put it over the bowl once dough was inside. Probably miss read it and been doing it wrong since.

Bad habits hard to break.

Making bread inspire of myself.

Liner in brotform dust well with flour carefully place dough seam side down in form dust top lightly with flour and cover with a clean dry towel preferably one that has never been bleached or had fabric softener used on it.

I have specific towels that I only use for baking. Flour sack are great but any fine/tight weave (non-terry) towel works. When I wash them I use a non-scented soap, no bleach (use vinegar) and no fabric softener. You don't want to impart any fragrance to your dough or whatever it is you're baking.

[yogachik]

Liner in brotform dust well with flour carefully place dough seam side down in form dust top lightly with flour and cover with a clean dry towel preferably one that has never been bleached or had fabric softener used on it.

I cover with a basic shower cap (like the kind you get from a hotel), or a 2 gallon plastic bag. Flour towels work great, too.

I have to say, the marathon folding and proving dough from the weekend really made a spectacular crumb and flavor. I may have to do it again (the video I posted, above).

[SB]

[tgapp]

Beautiful. What's your secret to getting such a good ear?

[SB]

Just make a 45 degree or so curved cut on the top of the loaf. Saw it in a bread video.

I did one on each side opposite of each other.

[Mr. Mike]

My dad liked sourdough. Made dough Wednesday and proofed overnight. He passed early Thursday morning (expected and frankly overdue). Baked these Thursday and enjoyed the round one with 2 dear friends who brought over a 2012 Martinelli Syrah to toast him Thursday evening. The bread turned out great. I'll miss you, Dad.

[SB]

I’m sure your Dad would have enjoyed those.

[KQ]

Sorry to hear that Mike. My Dad loved to bake bread. I can still remember him teaching me to make sourdough starter back in the 70s. Will be baking tomorrow and will break bread in memorial to both our fathers.

[tgapp]

My dad liked sourdough. Made dough Wednesday and proofed overnight. He passed early Thursday morning (expected and frankly overdue). Baked these Thursday and enjoyed the round one with 2 dear friends who brought over a 2012 Martinelli Syrah to toast him Thursday evening. The bread turned out great. I'll miss you, Dad.

Sorry, Mike. Your Dad would have been proud - those are great looking (and I'm sure great tasting) loaves.

[KQ]

I know we've covered SD six ways to Sunday but I thought I'd post this from my Bobs Red Mill:

Sourdough 101

Thier FB page has some great looking stuff on it:

https://www.facebook.com/BobsRedMillNaturalFoods/

[pureantigravity]

This is actually my best tasting one yet. 20% whole grain rye, 60% sifted coarse whole wheat, 20% coarse whole wheat. Milk instead of water - 85% hydration with a 1/4 cup maple syrup (for a hint of aroma).

Autolyse overnight in fridge.
Let rise to about 50% bulk and then fridge proof for another 8 hours.

**Taste has no bitterness typical of high bran whole wheat** and crumb is perfect for sandwich or plain.
Tastes really good plain! Has the perfect balance of sweet/bitter/rye/wheat.

Baked 22 min 500F (with water pan in oven), 12 min 450F (with water pan) , 24 minutes 450F no water pan and after letting dry air in oven.
Make sure to use 12" pan in oven with 2 cups of boiling water during moist bake stage.

Crust was 1/8" to 1/4" with a little tenderness.
Let it sit 4 hours before slicing.
The crust is a bit dark brown in the ear - but that is actually just due to the maple syrup and milk sugars caramelizing.
Not taste burnt.

You could gift this to friends and they would say it is the best bread they have ever tasted in their life.
It is that good!

20 KG of the Coarse Whole Wheat is about $14 at Costco.
Whole grain rye is from supermarket fancy flour section.

All on the oven cam:

https://i.imgur.com/HDOHie3.gif