Bread Baking (sourdough)

[KQ]

Bonus points if it was the hi-line! Them some tough folks.

It was! Conrad, Montana in the western hi-line region. They came via train from Lawsonville, North Carolina in 1905. I've got a great picture of my grandmother on horseback riding the snow covered plain in 1915.

[Bobby Stainless]

Shes baking bread, and I think its sour dough. -Hank Evans

[Kenny Satch]

a friend of mine makes sourdough bread thats out this world

he did a course in San Fran just to learn their method as to why they have the best sourdough bread

I think he poached some of the yeast and is now rocking the GTA with his bakery. he always sold out

funny it tastes better the next day

[KQ]

a friend of mine makes sourdough bread thats out this world

he did a course in San Fran just to learn their method as to why they have the best sourdough bread

I think he poached some of the yeast and is now rocking the GTA with his bakery. he always sold out

funny it tastes better the next day

SF actually has its own wild yeast classified as Candida humilis and bacteria classified as Lactobacillus sanfrancisco. Bread made from this starter has it's own unique flavor and is why so many claim it to be the best. The San Francisco variety has remained in continuous production since 1849.

The starter I got from King Arthur claims to have started in New England in the 1700s.

Fascinating stuff.

[Kenny Satch]

SF actually has its own wild yeast classified as Candida humilis and bacteria classified as Lactobacillus sanfrancisco. Bread made from this starter has it's own unique flavor and is why so many claim it to be the best. The San Francisco variety has remained in continuous production since 1849.

The starter I got from King Arthur claims to have started in New England in the 1700s.

Fascinating stuff.

my buddy has been a Bread Baker for almost 35 years and his sourdough bread was good but this yeast took it to another level

its amazing how long a yeast culture can keep going

I told him he needs (no pun intended) to start a school a pass on his knowledge...his reply "maybe one day"

[SB]

Here's a question for you sourdough people - do you use purified water to feed your critter? I've read that city tap water can alter the starter because of chlorination. I've use my tap water which comes from a well.

Boil dat H20 briefly and it all gone. TempHardness is reduced also. Water chemistry is all I'm pot rant in brewery and it wood be same ins bready 2.

[farmer]

Just ordered that same starter / crock set. Looking forward to some good sourdough.

[isisis]

Congratulations on your sourdough starter! Perhaps I am a bit of a "purist," but a true sourdough shouldn't need commercial yeast to make it rise: http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/...ted-bread.html
"Commercial yeast is a single kind of organism that raises the bread very quickly and transforms grain into something that’s even less good for you. Sourdough is two organisms: wild yeast and bacteria, in symbiosis. The yeast and bacteria transform the grain to make it healthier, easier to digest, and resistant to getting moldy or stale. I have seen many who had gluten problems do fine with long rise sourdough bread. The magic seems to occur when you let the rising time reach seven hours or longer. This is the amount of time it seems to take for the cultures to do their work."--from culturedfoodlife.com

Also, this is a good website, especially the pizza dough recipe:
http://sourdoughhome.com/index.php?c...artingastarter
http://www.sourdoughhome.com/index.p...nt=pizzacrusts
Whole Wheat Tortillas:
http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2...tortillas.html
Last but not least, here is a "no-knead" Boule recipe that I have made with pretty good success:
http://kellythekitchenkop.com/best-s...-bread-recipe/
Have fun!!!

[KQ]

Just ordered that same starter / crock set. Looking forward to some good sourdough.

Yay! I absolutely love that I no longer have to buy sourdough esp. since sometimes our local bakery runs out before I get to town. This is the Cooks Illustrated recipe I used for those boules. It's a 24hr recipe but is more rising/resting time than effort on your part. I used a Silpat for my work surface which worked wonderfully. Also used Bob's Red Mill Flour which is supposed to be 12-13% protein. I noticed today when I was at the store that Bob's also makes a high protein Artisan Bread Flour which I have not tried. King Arthur sell such a flour too and recommends it in some of their sourdough recipes.

24-Hour Sourdough Bread
MAKES TWO 1 1/2-POUND LOAVES

INGREDIENTS

SPONGE
4½ ounces refreshed starter (½cup)

3–4ounces bottled water or
filtered, (⅜-½ cup), 80degrees

5 ounces unbleached allpurpose
flour (1 cup), with 11
to 13 percent protein
content

DOUGH
12 ounces bottled water or
filtered, (1 ½ cups), 70 degrees

24 ounces unbleached allpurpose
flour (about 4 ¾
cups) with 11 to 13 percent
protein content

2½ teaspoons table salt

INSTRUCTIONS

Once you have a healthy, refreshed starter (see related recipe
for "Sourdough Starter Refreshment"), the bread will take
about 24 hours (over the course of two days) before it is
ready for baking. It is best to start the recipe in the morning,
no more than 12 hours after the last feeding of the starter.

Comments:
For the sponge, use the lower amount of water if you
live in a humid climate, the higher amount in an arid
climate. During kneading, this dough should not
exceed a temperature of 80 degrees. If your kitchen
is very warm or very cold, use water a few degrees
cooler or warmer, respectively. A few pieces of
equipment are highly recommended: digital scale,
baking stone, parchment paper, instant-read
thermometer, and spray bottle filled with water. A
baking peel and razor blade are also handy but not
essential. The dough can be kneaded by hand, but
the kneading times must be doubled. When spritzing
the loaves in the oven, be careful to avoid spraying
water on the oven light.

1. MAKE THE SPONGE: In bowl or container with at
least 1-quart capacity, use rubber spatula to stir
together starter and water until fully combined. Stir
in flour until combined; mixture should resemble
thick pancake batter. Cover with plastic wrap and let
rise at room temperature (about 72 degrees) until
doubled in bulk, 2 to 3 hours.

2. MAKE THE DOUGH: Measure water into bowl of
standing mixer; add sponge to water. Fit mixer with
dough hook; with mixer running on lowest speed,
add flour 1/2 cup at a time. Once all flour has been
added, continue kneading until dough forms ball,
about 1 minute longer. Cover bowl with plastic wrap
and let dough rest 20 minutes.

3. KNEAD THE DOUGH: Using fingers, create pocket in
rested dough; add salt to pocket. Knead on low speed
until dough is soft, smooth, and moist (dough should
not be sticky), about 5 minutes. Transfer dough to
clean work surface and knead by hand until dough
forms firm ball, about 30 seconds.

4. LET THE DOUGH RISE: Lightly spray container or
bowl with at least 4-quart capacity with nonstick
cooking spray; place dough in container and lightly
spray surface of dough. Take internal temperature of
dough; then cover tightly with plastic wrap. If
temperature registered below 78 degrees, set
container at room temperature (about 70 degrees) in
draft-free spot; if warmer than 78 degrees, set
container at cool room temperature (about 65
degrees) in draft-free spot. Let stand until dough
doubles in bulk, 3 to 5 hours.

5. STRETCH THE DOUGH: Scrape dough out onto clean
work surface. Gently stretch dough (to redistribute
and refresh yeast) as far as possible without tearing,
then fold it into thirds like a letter.

6. DIVIDE AND SHAPE THE DOUGH: Using bench
scraper or chef's knife, divide dough in half, each
piece weighing about 1 1/2 pounds. Form each half
into rough ball, cover loosely with plastic wrap or
damp kitchen towel, and let rest 15 minutes. To
shape dough, use one hand to push dough against
unfloured work surface, using other hand as guide.

Goal is to make taught ball without ripping surface.
Pinch bottom seam and set each round, seam side
down, on separate sheets of parchment paper on
dinner plates, rimless cookie sheets, or inverted
rimmed baking sheets.

7. REFRIGERATE THE ROUNDS OVERNIGHT: Spray
rounds lightly with nonstick cooking spray and cover
loosely but completely with plastic wrap. Refrigerate
overnight 8 to 12 hours.

8. PROOF AND SLASH THE ROUNDS: Remove rounds
from refrigerator and gently slide onto roomtemperature
surface where they can rise undisturbed
for several hours; space them at least 6 inches apart.
Loosen plastic wrap to allow rounds to rise; let rise
until at least doubled in bulk and dough barely
springs back when poked with your knuckle, 3 to 4
hours. Meanwhile, after about 2 hours, adjust oven
rack to lower-middle position, place baking stone on
rack, and heat oven to 500 degrees. Working one at a
time, carefully slide rounds on parchment onto
baking peel, rimless cookie sheet, or inverted
rimmed baking sheet. Using sharp razor blade or
knife held at 45-degree angle to work surface, slash
surface of rounds 1/2 to 3/4 inch deep.

9. BAKE THE BREAD: Working quickly, spray loaves
with water, slide onto baking stone, and
immediately reduce oven temperature to 450
degrees. During first 5 minutes of baking, spray
loaves with water 2 additional times; bake until deep
golden brown and instant-read thermometer
inserted into center of loaves registers about 210
degrees, about 30 minutes total. Transfer loaves to
wire rack, discard parchment, and cool loaves to
room temperature on wire rack, about 2 hours.

[KQ]

Congratulations on your sourdough starter! Perhaps I am a bit of a "purist," but a true sourdough shouldn't need commercial yeast to make it rise: http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/...ted-bread.html
"Commercial yeast is a single kind of organism that raises the bread very quickly and transforms grain into something that’s even less good for you. Sourdough is two organisms: wild yeast and bacteria, in symbiosis. The yeast and bacteria transform the grain to make it healthier, easier to digest, and resistant to getting moldy or stale. I have seen many who had gluten problems do fine with long rise sourdough bread. The magic seems to occur when you let the rising time reach seven hours or longer. This is the amount of time it seems to take for the cultures to do their work."--from culturedfoodlife.com

I noticed that a lot of KA recipes have added yeast and figured they were trying to help out busy people with less resting/rising time. The Cooks Illustrated recipe I posted relies only on the sponge and as you can see from the picture of the boules I posted it came out great but those were 24hrs in the making and the KA Fruited Sourdough Sandwich Loaf I made (which was wonderful) was made in one afternoon.

[lerxst]

Starter ordered. Hoping for better results this round.

[KQ]

Re: protein content of flour. For some reason the protein listed on the bags is not the protein content but nutrutional content <roll eyes>. You either need to call the company or go online to find out the actual protein level of a particular flour.

Here is a comparison chart of some brands:

APPROXIMATE PROTEIN CONTENT OF DIFFERENT WHITE FLOURS AND THEIR USES

As I mentioned earlier Bobs Red Mill is 12-13% for their white unbleached all purpose flour:

Unbleached White Flour = 12-13% protein
Organic Unbleached White Flour = 11.5-12.5% protein
Whole Wheat Flour = 13.5% min. protein
Organic Whole Wheat Flour = 14% min. protein
Whole Wheat Pastry Flour = 13% max. protein
Organic Whole Wheat Pastry Flour = 12% max. protein
Organic Hard White Whole Wheat Flour = 13-16% protein

[KQ]

Starter ordered. Hoping for better results this round.

Check in the King Arthur if you have questions - they are most helpful

[KQ]

and another thing - Sourdough Pancakes/Waffles! Yum!

Classic Sourdough Waffles or Pancakes

YIELD
1 dozen 8" waffles or about 2 dozen medium pancakes

Overnight Sponge

2 cups King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour
2 tablespoons sugar
2 cups buttermilk
1 cup sourdough starter, unfed

Waffle or pancake batter

all of the overnight sponge
2 large eggs
1/4 cup vegetable oil or melted butter
3/4 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon baking soda

Directions

To make the overnight sponge, stir down your refrigerated starter, and remove 1 cup.
In a large mixing bowl, stir together the 1 cup starter, flour, sugar, and buttermilk.
Cover and let rest at room temperature overnight.

In a small bowl or mixing cup, beat together the eggs, and oil or butter. Add to the overnight sponge.
Add the salt and baking soda, stirring to combine. The batter will bubble.

Pour batter onto your preheated, greased waffle iron, and bake according to the manufacturer's instructions.
Serve waffles immediately, to ensure crispness. Or hold in a warm oven till ready to serve.

[mtngirl79]

Strange that you add baking soda...

[KQ]

Strange that you add baking soda...

Yes, I think so too. Found this information that may shed light on it. Baking soda is also responsible for browning (called the Maillard reaction)


The Food Lab: How to Make the Best Light and Fluffy Pancakes

[abraham]

Aren't most waffles made with with soda, or is it powder? I know yeasted waffles aren't too common

[mtngirl79]

baking soda. Baking powder is used to up the acidity.

[Game Over]

Pretty sure the good ol' Betty Crocker pancake recipe has both soda and powder...

Edit- Better homes and gardens buttermilk does. Can't find my Betty Crocker. Mom may have taken it back...

[JayPowHound]

Thank you - I'm quite proud of my loaves

Got the starter from King Arthur Flour (bought the crock set) Seems great but this is my first time (didn't hurt at all!) so I'm not an expert on what is good and what is better. They have a great help line you can call anytime.



Oh man the proofer rocks! And it folds up small enough to slide in with my cookie sheets and cooling racks. I highly recommend it if you have a big open house. I know someone mentioned using the oven for proofing but in the instance of the sourdough I just baked I need to warm up the baking stone for a couple hours prior to baking so it wouldn't have worked.

My cousin works that phone help line, she ran a bakery in Oregon for 15 years and then gave up on the early mornings.

Funny, I was gonna recommend it when I saw the thread title. Seems like you are already there.

[KQ]

Pretty sure the good ol' Betty Crocker pancake recipe has both soda and powder...

Edit- Better homes and gardens buttermilk does. Can't find my Betty Crocker. Mom may have taken it back...

Did you look at that article I linked re: fluffy pancakes? Interesting stuff re: baking soda/power and how it all works together.

My cousin works that phone help line, she ran a bakery in Oregon for 15 years and then gave up on the early mornings.

Funny, I was gonna recommend it when I saw the thread title. Seems like you are already there.

Those ladies are so nice and helpful! Def. a great resource.

[bagtagley]

I can't find the recipe, but it makes the fluffiest pancakes I've ever eaten.

It's a pretty typical recipe, except that you separate the egg whites and whip them until they have soft peaks. Then fold the whipped whites into the already mixed batter, and cook 'em up.

[mtngirl79]

That's how you make nice fluffy cakes too.

[KQ]

I can't find the recipe, but it makes the fluffiest pancakes I've ever eaten.

It's a pretty typical recipe, except that you separate the egg whites and whip them until they have soft peaks. Then fold the whipped whites into the already mixed batter, and cook 'em up.

I've got an awesome recipe for Blueberry Cornmeal Pancakes from Cafe Beaujolais that uses that method. Really awesome pancakes.

Hey - found it online!

Cafe Beaujolais' Cornmeal Pancakes

Source of Recipe


San Fransisco Chronicle
Recipe Introduction


Adapted from "Cafe Beaujolais," by Margaret S. Fox and John Bear (Ten Speed Press, 1984). The key to great pancakes, writes Fox, the former Cafe Beaujolais proprietor, is not to press on them as you are cooking them. In season, add fresh blueberries.
List of Ingredients




1 1/4 cups all-purpose flour

1 cup stone-ground cornmeal (not de-germed)

2 tablespoons sugar

1 1/2 teaspoons baking soda

1 teaspoon baking powder

3/4 teaspoon salt

2 cups buttermilk

3 egg yolks

3 tablespoons melted butter

3 egg whites

1 cup fresh blueberries (optional)

Recipe



Preheat a griddle to moderate. Stir together the flour, cornmeal, sugar, baking soda, baking powder and salt.

In a large bowl, whisk together buttermilk, egg yolks and melted butter. In another bowl, beat egg whites to firm peaks.

Add the dry ingredients to the buttermilk mixture and whisk to blend. Fold in the egg whites.

Using a 1/4-cup measure, drop batter onto the hot griddle. Let it spread by itself; don't attempt to spread or flatten it. If using blueberries, scatter a few on top.

Cook until bubbles form on the surface and the pancake feels firm enough on the bottom to turn.

Flip the pancakes with a spatula and cook until the second side browns. Adjust the heat if necessary so that pancakes cook through before they brown too much.

Yields 18 pancakes

PER PANCAKE: 102 calories, 3 g protein, 15 g carbohydrate, 3 g fat (2 g saturated), 42 mg cholesterol, 290 mg sodium, 1 g fiber.

[trainnvain]

Love this thread!