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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    I don't generally read there either (though happened to read today, and it sounds like it may be fixed?), but from what I gather, the step in feature works pretty well (not flawless but well) when the brakes are not installed. But when the brakes are installed, it's darn near impossible to step in for many people. But, next year's version may have fixed this.
    I'll check with my friend. We were working together the other day and he was on them seemed fine. Stoked actually.

    The step in seemed a little weird to me but it seems to work ok for him. They looked a little hard to get out of but he's got that figured out.

    I broke a pair of Freedom bindings the other day - the plastic hinge that activates the touring mode snapped. It was a freezing kind of day and I think it iced up and broke when I stepped on it to click in.

    "Gear breaks, get over it" - Randosteve

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    I would totally switch to those for my next binder, IF they fix the step in with brakes problem. At this point, brakes and step in are both on my non-negotiable list.
    They aren't bad at all. It takes a couple times practicing, but really, it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Very easy. Don't let that be a reason for notskiing on the best binding I've ever ridden. Again, VERY easy.
    Gravity. It's the law.

  3. #78
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    For durability Bishop is far superior than anything out there. The 2.0 is a true upgrade to the 1.0 with a new binding on the horizon . http://www.telemarkskier.com/new-bishop-binding/
    If you want a 2.0 to try or buy let me know I have some 20% off cards that I would be happy to share and have access to the demo and personal fleet.

    Full Disclosure: I am an Athalete/Badassador for Bishop
    あなたのおっぱいは富士山のように美しいです。富士

    Kendo Yamamoto "1984"

  4. #79
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    Reviving this thread for some good ol' tele binding tech talk.

    After 20 years I'm upgrading from 75mm to NTN and considering:
    Outlaw X
    BMF/3
    BMF/R

    Only looking at these because I've broken every tele binding out there with the exception of the current Vice. Figure a tech toe won't work for my knee-to-ski style and big boots.

    BMF/3's look great but no touring is a bummer and the /R's at $699 are just too much. Looking to get three pair so I like the $99 swap plate. But BMF's not a true step-in with the heel lock?

    Outlaws seem to be the default. But three pair add up.

    Whatcha got?

  5. #80
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    As stated in the other thread, I can't say enough of 22D's NTN bindings. But, I haven't skied the BMFs to compare.

    I'd also say that you can go low in the tech NTN stuff -- they hold your heel down and engage so quickly, it's an adjustment at first (as is the Outlaw).

    For a while, I had a pair of each and just used inserts. I would do that before getting 3 pairs of the same binding, or just get Outlaw, some extra heels and extra parts and save the $$$.

  6. #81
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    I too am entering the transition zone. I hate overthinking this shit.

    My take to the BMF (I haven’t skied them) is that they are a 75mm binding that can be modified to work with ntn boots. But to realize the true power potential of the binding, if that’s your deal, you’ll want to use the stiff 75mm boots. Apparently, the big ntn boots are not as stiff. I’d love to hear if somebody has actually real life details.

    Danno and others have stated transitioning from the t-1 or garmont/Scott 4 buckle boot to the tx pro has been good and they do not feel like they’ve downgraded their boot. Maybe hop will reply here because I believe he may differ in that opinion. I think I’ve read where he’s forced his foot to work in the crispi evo wc because it’s the biggest ntn boot with tech pin holes.

    I’m using fairly fresh garmont ener-g’s. Because of life, I’m not sure I’ll do much touring this season or next season. If life was more normal, I’d be touring a lot more. I’m skiing plenty of resort days. Currently, I’m kinda wishing for “more boot.” I ski longer skis for my size (and tele) than typical.

    “Improved edge control” is the performance take away about ntn binding/boots, right? Maybe that’s my quest for “more boot” with my current set-up and tx pro will be all good. The only reason I’m considering the tx pro is because of the tech toe.

    It’s a pretty big pita for me to deal with boots. And demoing is a bigger pita. So I’d prefer to get it right the first time.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by dschane View Post
    For a while, I had a pair of each and just used inserts. I would do that before getting 3 pairs of the same binding, or just get Outlaw, some extra heels and extra parts and save the $$$.
    There also the option of using shift plates instead of using inserts.

  8. #83
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    I'd go Outlaw with shift plates. I just don't get a warm fuzzy for inserts.

    I'm back to tele this year, and couldn't be happier. My knees started to feel better this past year, so I decided to give it another go, and I'm finding that I feel better overall after a day of tele VS. a day of alpine - back, knees, etc... I still pull out the training heels when I'm gonna be doing sketchy, steep, icy stuff out west, but out here in the meadows, tele makes for a better day for me.
    Gravity. It's the law.

  9. #84
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    I'm really not much help because I've been on the same boots and bindings for over a decade. Well, my Freedoms are not quite that old but the boots and the Freerides are.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  10. #85
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    You certainly can’t go knee to ski on Meidjos. Most certainly lt not.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It’s a shame too, since the version 2.1 and now 3.0 are awesome.

  11. #86
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    Nov 2009
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    I’m on TXPros and v1 of the Outlaws on my daily driver and they rock. Only issue I’ve got with them is they can sometimes be a little difficult to get the cam to engage on the boot, a few good stomps and they lock in. Have found if I put binding in tour mode then step-in it works. Love the TXPros, never had a boot fit so well and don’t have any problems.
    Also have some Freerides that have a few hundred days on them that are still working great but they are heavy. Never had an issue with them.
    I’ve been looking at the Voile TTS binders lately to put on a touring ski, miss the weight savings of a 75mm binding. Any one here have experience with the Voile TTS?

  12. #87
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    All y’all on tx pro’s, did u pick em over the tx comp because of the tech toes?

    Those voile bindings look very interesting to me. I have not read or heard of a review yet.

  13. #88
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    The shift plates would work great -- a bit heavier than inserts and just make sure you add a shim under the duckbutt lever if the shift plates don't extend that far -- it will be hard to engage that lever it's on a lower plane than the rest of the binding.

    I have not had issues getting in and out of the Outlaw X, but I don't use brakes and I understand that the brakes make the binding's claw a bit hard to engage/lock in.

    Coming from T Races, I definitely picked the Pros over the Comps only because of the tech toes as my first purchase was a TTS system. But the lateral leverage and overall power of the NTN bindings over their 75mm counterparts make up the difference in spades. If you are going to use frame bindings, I'd probably get the Comps. I can't see any down side to that unless you're coming from a softer boot or prefer that. I don't think the difference is huge as I think the cuff height is the same and the Comps just use a stiffer plastic (someone even replaced his Tx Pro cuffs with those from the Comps and said the difference was very small). That said, I'd defer to someone who skis both.

    I spent a couple of years on TTS (first OMG's and then Kreuzspitze's), but have not tried Voile's system. My take is that I was blown away by TTS's light weight, immediate engagement, and power. However, I kept bending the hardwires from bottoming out the springs. My conclusion is that they work great if you use the long and very, very soft springs (and you prefer a very neutral feel such as the original Switchbacks) or if you ski very upright. I don't think Voile has solved any of those issues. Lynx provides the same power, let's you go knee to ski if you want (I ski low but not that low unless I accidentally hit a bump), and has worked close to flawlessly for me.

  14. #89
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    Finally went all-in last year on NTN. I bought both scarpa boots because they were available at the time And I definitely wanted to be compatible with the tech toe. I skied the pro boot for about 25 days at the beginning of the season and found it great for touring both tech toe Lynx and on the outlaw.

    The comp boot feels much better driving bigger skis and I prefer it for all day inbounds type shredding.

    The Lynx doesn’t ski as plush as the outlaw. It’s got a weird stiffness to it that I don’t really enjoy. The outlaw has a beautiful smooth flex in the middle of the adjustment range and the lateral stability and edge control is unmatched by any binding I’ve skied. I tried using the brakes on the outlaw but they were finicky getting in and I ran out of patience and went back to leashes.

  15. #90
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    I have 10-15 days on the BMF-R. I have limited tele experience otherwise (about 15 days on Karhu Jaks with blue Rainey Designs Hammerheads and Syner-Gs that were a size too big), but I guess I'll talk about them anyway. I found my BMF-Rs on eBay for $300, which seemed like a good idea given that I wasn't sure that the time whether I'd be on 25.5 or 26.5 boots, i.e. small NTN or large NTN. Skis are 186cm Moment Governors, mounted with inserts for the BMFs and alpine bindings in case I didn't like the BMFs. I haven't been on alpine bindings since I got this setup, though.

    Boots are 25.5. Garmont Prophet NTNs (same as Scott Voodoo, but no tech inserts). I got these because they were cheap, and Freeheel Life said they were the narrowest NTN boot. I like them pretty well, but the bellows are pretty soft. And, I occasionally get vicious toe-bang when landing drops backseat.

    Quote Originally Posted by ski-wpk View Post

    BMF/3's look great but no touring is a bummer and the /R's at $699 are just too much. Looking to get three pair so I like the $99 swap plate. But BMF's not a true step-in with the heel lock?
    The BMF step-in is pretty easy, but not as easy as an alpine binding. You have to kick your toe forward to seat it into the toe cage while depressing the brake, then stomp down and hopefully get the heel lever engaged first try, then flick the heel lock with your pole. I had some trouble getting the heel lever to fully engage when it caught on the remnants of the boot size sticker just over the heel welt, or if I had some snow under my boot or binding so the binding springs had to engage more to get the heel locked in. Usually you can bash the levers into position with a pole handle anyway. The heel lock has hardly any resistance at all (it's held in place by a wire that rides over a plastic nubbin); once the heel lever is in the heel lock easily engages with a pole.

    Stepping out is easy too, using pole handles.

    The only think I'll say about the swap plate is that the binding mounts to it with 8mm M6 flathead machine screws, which are going to be hard to find at a hardware store. Otherwise, they're fine.

    The only maintenance I've done so far is replace the bushings/bearings at the touring pivot, which had a lot of slop. This is easily done with a flat-head screwdriver and pair of Knipex pliers. Definitely do use thread lock on the bolts holding the binding onto the pivot axle; I had one back out a few mm and one fall all the way out and get lost on my first tour. Since applying Vibratite everything has been fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    My take to the BMF (I haven’t skied them) is that they are a 75mm binding that can be modified to work with ntn boots. But to realize the true power potential of the binding, if that’s your deal, you’ll want to use the stiff 75mm boots. Apparently, the big ntn boots are not as stiff. I’d love to hear if somebody has actually real life details.

    “Improved edge control” is the performance take away about ntn binding/boots, right? Maybe that’s my quest for “more boot” with my current set-up and tx pro will be all good. The only reason I’m considering the tx pro is because of the tech toe.
    My understanding was that the T-Race was basically of comparable stiffness to the TX Comp, and that the Crispi Evo WC was significantly stiffer. I haven't skied any of those boots, unfortunately.

    Edge control is significantly better with my NTN setup than it was with my clapped-out 75mm setup, but unfortunately I can't compare it to a decent 75mm setup. What I can say is that I feel just as confident making high-angle parallel turns on my NTN gear as I do on alpine.

    I really want to try out TX Pros and TX Comps with this boot/binding combo, because I want an instep buckle and I want to try Lynxes.

    Speaking of touring: the BMF-Rs tour just a bit better than a frame AT binding. They're 950g each, which is okay, and the pivot point is a little better-positioned than in a Duke or Guardian. The worst part about touring in them is you don't have full knee-to-ski range of motion, which would be nice to have for kick turns and funky maneuvers in deep snow.
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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Maybe hop will reply here because I believe he may differ in that opinion. I think I’ve read where he’s forced his foot to work in the crispi evo wc because it’s the biggest ntn boot with tech pin holes.
    Rumor on the slopes is that Hop is a splitboarder now. At least his heels are still free on the ascent.

  17. #92
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    The first time I tried the latest version of Lynx with both power spacers, I thought it was impossibly stiff. I'm not skinny and I couldn't comfortably drive my hips/thighs/shins forward to make the binding work well. I removed both power spacers and life is grand again. The immediate engagement of Lynx (TTS, Meidjo) is awkward at first, but once you adjust to that, there's no going back. It's brilliant.

    (But, honestly, 3 years ago, I would have said the same about Outlaw and 3 years before that I might have said the same about Switchback X2, so yeah, I have my-own-gear-rocks-affirmation bias).

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by dschane View Post
    The first time I tried the latest version of Lynx with both power spacers, I thought it was impossibly stiff. I'm not skinny and I couldn't comfortably drive my hips/thighs/shins forward to make the binding work well. I removed both power spacers and life is grand again. The immediate engagement of Lynx (TTS, Meidjo) is awkward at first, but once you adjust to that, there's no going back. It's brilliant.

    (But, honestly, 3 years ago, I would have said the same about Outlaw and 3 years before that I might have said the same about Switchback X2, so yeah, I have my-own-gear-rocks-affirmation bias).
    Damn good info. Gonna check my spacers.

  19. #94
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    Mar 2016
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    The state of tele gear from someone who is involved in the industry and who has significant time on almost all the gear in question:

    Outlaw is the way. Fuck the BMF, you definitely can't get "knee to ski" if that's your thing, and they are more prone to breakage vs an outlaw. I skied a pair for 60 or so days and broke every plastic piece on them. I built bindings for them for a season and on their test machine they did nothing but break. It isn't worth the cost/weight/complexity, especially if you're trying to tour. They also don't release which is a side benefit of NTN. Not like din certified or anything but if I crash hard on my outlaws they come off. The only pro of the BMF is that it can be setup stiff AF if you like ultimate power.
    Freerides suck, they chew your boots all up and don't have nearly as sweet of a flex as the outlaw. There is a big dead spot at the top of the flex and at the bottom they just sort of stop. Lynx has a very different feel with the flex plates, but skis well. Meidjo is softer and you can definitely get low, but people have issues with ice packing in when touring. I have heard of folks blowing them up but I have 75ish touring days on my 2.1s and they haven't had an issue, snow packing or otherwise.

    For boots:
    The TX comp NTN boot is not quite as stiff as a T-race 75mm boot, but it is damn close. The fit is a bit wider on all the scarpa NTN boots vs their 75mm boots. The Crispi boots are stiffer in general, with the World Cup being the stiffest tele boot out there right now. I'd rate stiffness as follows:
    Crispi Evo world cup
    Scarpa t-race (75mm)
    TX comp
    Crispi Evo(NTN) or XR(75mm)
    Scarpa t1
    TX pro
    I don't really fuck with scott boots but in general the bellows are soft and the cuff stiff, pretty unbalanced flex imo but if they fit your feet and you can get used to them they do have the best walk mode. TX comps are what I would reccomend to 90% of people even though I put the vast majority of my days on Evo World Cups (mostly due to fit). Scarpa just makes a better boot. The Crispis are 200 dollars cheaper but they come with a shitty liner so by the time you put an intuition in it the price difference is moot. The Scarpa's have a better walk mode, and better hardware. The TX pro has mushy bellows imo vs a T1 which would be the comparable 75mm boot. It is the only option for tech touring though unless you go Crispi, and the Crispis have a joke of a walk mode and are nearly a pound heavier per foot. The TX Comp and pro weigh the same and have the same walk mode so if you're touring in an outlaw there is no advantage to the pro besides being a bit softer.

    TLDR; Outlaw and TX comp are the best NTN combo currently available.

  20. #95
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    Dec 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    All y’all on tx pro’s, did u pick em over the tx comp because of the tech toes?

    Those voile bindings look very interesting to me. I have not read or heard of a review yet.
    I have 25 or so days on the Voile tts. Mine are proto and I don't know what changed with the retail. Skied with F1s and defenders. Can't tele the defenders, too stiff, F1s tele okay but, no knee to ski.
    Entry is tricky, I marked the toes with a sharpie to line um up. Exit is easy. Have released twice on the down, I may not have locked out the binding. Skied with touring springs and a neutral set up. Previous tts was dynafit toes and Lengel heel. Like the Voile heels better, dynafit toes, easier entry.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by dschane View Post
    The first time I tried the latest version of Lynx with both power spacers, I thought it was impossibly stiff. I'm not skinny and I couldn't comfortably drive my hips/thighs/shins forward to make the binding work well. I removed both power spacers and life is grand again. The immediate engagement of Lynx (TTS, Meidjo) is awkward at first, but once you adjust to that, there's no going back. It's brilliant.

    (But, honestly, 3 years ago, I would have said the same about Outlaw and 3 years before that I might have said the same about Switchback X2, so yeah, I have my-own-gear-rocks-affirmation bias).

    so, I've got one spacer per spring on the Lynx currently. They're just so stiff. I'm gonna remove these and try w no spacers. Maybe i'll get them out this afternoon.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmedslc View Post
    so, I've got one spacer per spring on the Lynx currently. They're just so stiff. I'm gonna remove these and try w no spacers. Maybe i'll get them out this afternoon.
    You should notice a difference. The spacers are supposed to help with the claw engagement, but I haven't experienced a problem without them (unless I get a little snow/ice in there while skinning -- then, I just move the claw back and forth and that solves the problem 95% of the time; I hand engage them the other 5%). I did put some wave washers on the ends where the spacers would go, but whether they make any difference whatsoever with the claw is unknown.

    And, are you on a small or large Lynx? If small, 22D came out with some purple springs that are softer and much better. They're not on the website (yet), but just email them. Lastly, some people have been trimming the length of the flex plate -- it appears to make some difference too.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeleBeaver View Post
    The state of tele gear from someone who is involved in the industry and who has significant time on almost all the gear in question:
    I appreciate the honest assessment!

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by dschane View Post
    You should notice a difference. The spacers are supposed to help with the claw engagement, but I haven't experienced a problem without them (unless I get a little snow/ice in there while skinning -- then, I just move the claw back and forth and that solves the problem 95% of the time; I hand engage them the other 5%). I did put some wave washers on the ends where the spacers would go, but whether they make any difference whatsoever with the claw is unknown.

    And, are you on a small or large Lynx? If small, 22D came out with some purple springs that are softer and much better. They're not on the website (yet), but just email them. Lastly, some people have been trimming the length of the flex plate -- it appears to make some difference too.
    great info thanks. i'm a Large binding 27.5 boot. i just pulled the spacers and engaged the boot in the living room and seems to hook up the claw just fine. i'll bring them over to the resort later and take some runs to see how the action is.

    my problem primarily was that the binding was so stiff, that it crushed the bellows of the Tx Pro very early in the flex, resulting in that weird dynamic you describe.

    It's good to hear Telebeaver substantiate my comment about softness of the Tx Pro bellows. It seems to collapse much earlier than desired when skiing either Lynx or Outlaw, hence my preference for the Comp boot.

  25. #100
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    Gang: awesome discussion!

    I’m coming from big skis, Axl, and T-Race. Sounds like Outlaws and TX-Comp are where I’m headed assuming boot last isn’t too wide. Then I need to research shift plates.

    Anyone have a link for those, or any leads on buy options for Outlaw plus 30.0 TX-Comps? Actually only need shells so if anyone is looking for a 30.0 Intuition liner, LMK.

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