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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
    Posts
    2,651
    Used both. Sold the neoshell.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,081
    I've skied, hiked and mountaineered lots of days on GTX Pro, Neoshell and eVent. Notwithstandings its shortcomings in sustained rain, IME GTX Pro is by far the most weatherproof of the 3. Neoshell breathes a bit better, although not an issue for me lift-skiing. IME, Neoshell is halfway between Windstopper and GTX Pro in terms of both weatherproofness and breatheability. I pack my Neoshell for fair weather trips only. My 2 eVent shells failed after a season of hard use, rendering them expensive windbreakers, got soaked in both in modest rain. I gave them to Goodwill.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    11,701
    Waterproof breathable fabric is only as good as the DWR.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    3,362
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Waterproof breathable fabric is only as good as the DWR.
    Not exactly true. DWR is one component in the overall weatherproofing scheme but not the only one. Fabric weave (tightness, texture) is important. Some membranes are more water resistant than others, some are more breathable than others, some are more vulnerable to body oils than others. Some companies execute the membrane to face fabric fusion better than others. Some backer technologies are better than others.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ontario Canada eh
    Posts
    3,655
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Waterproof breathable fabric is only as good as the DWR.
    I would argue that GTX is the exception.
    Even when the DWR has diminished on any of my GTX outerwear I found the wind protection to remain superior.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,081
    DWR is irrelevant to wind protection for all fabrics

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,383
    Interesting to hear about eVent failures. I'd love to shop for a new shell with a hood and collar system like Arc'Teryx, but I can't get mine to fail. Maybe a manufacturer thing? I got a mtn hardware 3L (hellgate, I think).




    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Montrose, CO
    Posts
    670
    Yes, Gore-Tex still rules-for most stuff. Most of my skiing is backcountry these days and I always carry a lightweight, bomber gore-tex shell in my pack. I like the gore-tex pro as it breaths better than non-pro.

    For the past several seasons though, for both ski area skiing and touring pants I've used non-gore-tex stuff: Marmot, and Flylow. Especially for touring when you're not sitting on a chair while its dumping, gore-tex doesn't seem to be as crucial. I do make sure that anything I buy has taped seams throughout and venting options. I've had Flylow pants the past 6 or so seasons-mainly because they fit me well and offer good protection at a reasonable price.

    So, for a jacket, I always go gore-tex simply because it is so weather proof and breaths well. However, since I do tend to sweat a fair amount, I prefer jackets with pit zips.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,196
    This looks interesting.
    https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/the-shell.html
    The Shell ultralight technical jacket is a beast. Optimized for outdoor adventuring such as thru-hiking, backpacking, packrafting, climbing, day hiking, skiing, etc. The Shell ensures that no matter where you go, you’re covered. Made with DCF-WPB, this jacket is unprecedentedly breathable, waterproof, and tough as f*#k for its weight. When the weather rolls in, get The Shell out. When the weather rolls out, simply pack it away, stuff it into its self-contained pocket and/or clip it to your harness.
    Weight

    X-Small 0.32 lbs | 5.16 oz | 146g
    Small 0.34 lbs | 5.46 oz | 155g
    Medium 0.36 lbs | 5.80 oz | 164g
    Large 0.38 lbs | 6.14 oz | 174g
    X-Large 0.39 lbs | 6.20 oz | 176g
    Features

    DCF-WPB fabric with Dyneema® and eVent® materials technology
    Breathability Rating: 32,000 gm2/24hr
    Waterproof Rating: 10,000mm
    #5 YKK VISLON® Aquaguard® Zipper
    Polartec® Power-Dry® chin guard
    VELCRO® adjustable cuffs for additional weather resistance
    High collar zipper for additional weather resistance
    Front and rear hood shock cord adjustment
    Bottom hem shock cord adjustment
    Low-profile stuff pocket with waterproof zipper and clip-in point; ideal for climbers
    Helmet compatible hood; ideal for climbers, canyoneers, skiers
    Stiff hood brim
    Performance fit allowing a full range-of-motion for all outdoor activities
    Unisex sizing

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,081
    ^ ^ ^ See test results re Zpack shell made of same or similar fabric (Dyneema + eVent) on this BPL thread: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/85499/ Poster/tester (who has technical chops) reports poor breatheability, akin to cheap PU-coated shells and concerns re durability.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    5

    Outdry?

    Does anyone have any experience with the “outdry” membrane? I am looking at a pair of gloves (from Hestra) and am wondering if outdry is going be drier than goretex especially for hands that get too hot easily.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,081
    Quote Originally Posted by Far View Post
    Does anyone have any experience with the “outdry” membrane?
    I have no experience with OutDry. According to this article it's PU coating on the exterior of the garment protected by a thin diamond matrix also made of PU. It's an interesting approach. Note lots of OutDry garments are available at closeout prices. I'm interested to hear from users who have put in lots of long hard days.

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,383
    Quote Originally Posted by DIYSteve View Post
    I have no experience with OutDry. According to this article it's PU coating on the exterior of the garment protected by a thin diamond matrix also made of PU. It's an interesting approach. Note lots of OutDry garments are available at closeout prices. I'm interested to hear from users who have put in lots of long hard days.
    Great feedback on waterproofness from a fishing buddy who was a beta tester for it. No exertion-related feedback (re: breathability), but I was able to wear it around the columbia employee store for quite a while fully zipped up. I don't think it's quite as breathable as eVent, but it's surprisingly good for something that looks like a garbage bag. I'm sure there will be a few of them on the mountain this year now that the come in colors other than white.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    18,995
    Gortex for the lift and softshell/neo for the BC,
    2 different types of exertion, 2 different types of gear. Also consider that the best designs and companies will be using the appropriate fabric
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Western MT
    Posts
    1,417
    Quote Originally Posted by permnation View Post
    That looks a lot like Tyvek.

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    7

    gore tex

    Quote Originally Posted by mattig View Post
    Great feedback on waterproofness from a fishing buddy who was a beta tester for it. No exertion-related feedback (re: breathability), but I was able to wear it around the columbia employee store for quite a while fully zipped up. I don't think it's quite as breathable as eVent, but it's surprisingly good for something that looks like a garbage bag. I'm sure there will be a few of them on the mountain this year now that the come in colors other than white.
    Isnt Gore-tex more about the breathability than the waterproofability?

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    456
    what are you protecting from? Water, wind, cold? All?

    I like it but I like eVent also. Its worked very well so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by asickles827 View Post
    Isnt Gore-tex more about the breathability than the waterproofability?

  18. #93
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    287
    Gore-Tex is good as are many others like Polar-Tec or EVent.

    As long as they are water proof, you’ll be fine with good moisture management that is related to PROPER layering. It’s really about wearing minimal clothing for the job and trying not to sweat too much.

    Proper layering is paramount. Branding of breathable fabric is not so important.

  19. #94
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    287
    For windy days, a light down jacket under the shell will provide the best wind protection without added bulk. I use a LIGHT First Ascent Stormdown (coated down that provides heat while moist/sweaty) puffy with my base layer and shell.

    A fleece neck gaiter is another huge addition for keeping layers minimal. And it’s easy to adjust to cover ears and chin when it’s howling.

    So many ways to stay warm and dry out there. Again, most shells will do the trick. But over-dress underneath the shell, and you essentially cancel out the shell’s ability to breathe.

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    294
    In the PNW where you will ski in the rain at times, I wouldn't trust anything but a hard shell 3-layer (Gore Pro is my Go-To- higher breathability ratings than most other 3-layer hard shells.). It breathes reasonably well for me with pit zips and good layering underneath. There have been times I've taken the shell off during a break and inside, there is tiny frost built up only on the seams of the shell where there is less breathability, but the main panels are totally dry, even though I'm steaming like a clam. That to me says it has enough breathability. I've also skiied multiple days in pouring rain and never gotten wet with it.

    I don't have multiple sets of gear available, I tend to buy once, cry once. I made the decision to go with Gore Pro from Arc due the fact that if I got caught out in the open (lost, broken leg touring, etc) I would want to be able to survive in my gear and not worry about it (and me) getting wet.

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    ID
    Posts
    747
    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon3 View Post
    In the PNW where you will ski in the rain at times, I wouldn't trust anything but a hard shell 3-layer (Gore Pro is my Go-To- higher breathability ratings than most other 3-layer hard shells.). It breathes reasonably well for me with pit zips and good layering underneath. There have been times I've taken the shell off during a break and inside, there is tiny frost built up only on the seams of the shell where there is less breathability, but the main panels are totally dry, even though I'm steaming like a clam. That to me says it has enough breathability. I've also skiied multiple days in pouring rain and never gotten wet with it.

    I don't have multiple sets of gear available, I tend to buy once, cry once. I made the decision to go with Gore Pro from Arc due the fact that if I got caught out in the open (lost, broken leg touring, etc) I would want to be able to survive in my gear and not worry about it (and me) getting wet.
    Awesome. I've wondered what the PNW skied and skinned in. We get all kinds of weather in N.E. but it's a lot of cold and wind. NeoShell works great in these conditions, especially if you're touring.
    Don't think I'll buy it, but would be interested to hear what specific make and model you and other PNWers use.

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    5,335
    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Awesome. I've wondered what the PNW skied and skinned in. We get all kinds of weather in N.E. but it's a lot of cold and wind. NeoShell works great in these conditions, especially if you're touring.
    Don't think I'll buy it, but would be interested to hear what specific make and model you and other PNWers use.
    Bought these, it hurt the bank account, but well worth it. Skied in a few monsoons and 100% dry.

    https://www.arcteryx.com/us/en/shop/mens/stinger-pant

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Alpental
    Posts
    3,551
    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Awesome. I've wondered what the PNW skied and skinned in.
    We have alternative sports
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North Vancouver
    Posts
    1,055
    this new fabric, "futurelight", from North Face may be interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDyj8FALiG0

    I find marketing goes furthest when it comes to waterproof/'breathable". There are a lot of good fabrics out there. None breath well. Some maybe better than others, but I cannot tell it's so marginal.

    I have zero affiliation with NF. I just saw a story on this on the TGR homepage a couple days ago but can no longer find it so posted the youtube link above. Be cool if it worked and was durable.

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    968
    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Awesome. I've wondered what the PNW skied and skinned in.
    I only ski resort if its gonna rain and i know its gonna rain. In that case, i just wear my normal outerwear which is 20k/20k minimum for pants (currently Saga monarch), goretex 2L for jacket (currently Dakine Smyth). Depending on how im feeling ill either just head home at lunch, or bring an old set of outerwear to change into at lunch. That setup gets me through a few hours or rain, or a whole day of wet snow pretty well. I keep my stuff up on NikiWax DWR too.

    Honestly though, if it is pissing rain, im not gonna ski. Im gonna be digging trail or riding MTB, or doing errands and watching netflix haha.

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