Gore-Tex still the best?

[SupreChicken]

Used both. Sold the neoshell.

[GeezerSteve]

I've skied, hiked and mountaineered lots of days on GTX Pro, Neoshell and eVent. Notwithstandings its shortcomings in sustained rain, IME GTX Pro is by far the most weatherproof of the 3. Neoshell breathes a bit better, although not an issue for me lift-skiing. IME, Neoshell is halfway between Windstopper and GTX Pro in terms of both weatherproofness and breatheability. I pack my Neoshell for fair weather trips only. My 2 eVent shells failed after a season of hard use, rendering them expensive windbreakers, got soaked in both in modest rain. I gave them to Goodwill.

[old goat]

Waterproof breathable fabric is only as good as the DWR.

[gregL]

Waterproof breathable fabric is only as good as the DWR.

Not exactly true. DWR is one component in the overall weatherproofing scheme but not the only one. Fabric weave (tightness, texture) is important. Some membranes are more water resistant than others, some are more breathable than others, some are more vulnerable to body oils than others. Some companies execute the membrane to face fabric fusion better than others. Some backer technologies are better than others.

[Kenny Satch]

Waterproof breathable fabric is only as good as the DWR.

I would argue that GTX is the exception.
Even when the DWR has diminished on any of my GTX outerwear I found the wind protection to remain superior.

[GeezerSteve]

DWR is irrelevant to wind protection for all fabrics

[mattig]

Interesting to hear about eVent failures. I'd love to shop for a new shell with a hood and collar system like Arc'Teryx, but I can't get mine to fail. Maybe a manufacturer thing? I got a mtn hardware 3L (hellgate, I think).




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[bovine]

Yes, Gore-Tex still rules-for most stuff. Most of my skiing is backcountry these days and I always carry a lightweight, bomber gore-tex shell in my pack. I like the gore-tex pro as it breaths better than non-pro.

For the past several seasons though, for both ski area skiing and touring pants I've used non-gore-tex stuff: Marmot, and Flylow. Especially for touring when you're not sitting on a chair while its dumping, gore-tex doesn't seem to be as crucial. I do make sure that anything I buy has taped seams throughout and venting options. I've had Flylow pants the past 6 or so seasons-mainly because they fit me well and offer good protection at a reasonable price.

So, for a jacket, I always go gore-tex simply because it is so weather proof and breaths well. However, since I do tend to sweat a fair amount, I prefer jackets with pit zips.

[SKIP IN7RO]

This looks interesting.
https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/the-shell.html
The Shell ultralight technical jacket is a beast. Optimized for outdoor adventuring such as thru-hiking, backpacking, packrafting, climbing, day hiking, skiing, etc. The Shell ensures that no matter where you go, you’re covered. Made with DCF-WPB, this jacket is unprecedentedly breathable, waterproof, and tough as f*#k for its weight. When the weather rolls in, get The Shell out. When the weather rolls out, simply pack it away, stuff it into its self-contained pocket and/or clip it to your harness.
Weight

X-Small 0.32 lbs | 5.16 oz | 146g
Small 0.34 lbs | 5.46 oz | 155g
Medium 0.36 lbs | 5.80 oz | 164g
Large 0.38 lbs | 6.14 oz | 174g
X-Large 0.39 lbs | 6.20 oz | 176g
Features

DCF-WPB fabric with Dyneema® and eVent® materials technology
Breathability Rating: 32,000 gm2/24hr
Waterproof Rating: 10,000mm
#5 YKK VISLON® Aquaguard® Zipper
Polartec® Power-Dry® chin guard
VELCRO® adjustable cuffs for additional weather resistance
High collar zipper for additional weather resistance
Front and rear hood shock cord adjustment
Bottom hem shock cord adjustment
Low-profile stuff pocket with waterproof zipper and clip-in point; ideal for climbers
Helmet compatible hood; ideal for climbers, canyoneers, skiers
Stiff hood brim
Performance fit allowing a full range-of-motion for all outdoor activities
Unisex sizing

[GeezerSteve]

^ ^ ^ See test results re Zpack shell made of same or similar fabric (Dyneema + eVent) on this BPL thread: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/85499/ Poster/tester (who has technical chops) reports poor breatheability, akin to cheap PU-coated shells and concerns re durability.

[Far]

Does anyone have any experience with the “outdry” membrane? I am looking at a pair of gloves (from Hestra) and am wondering if outdry is going be drier than goretex especially for hands that get too hot easily.

[GeezerSteve]

Does anyone have any experience with the “outdry” membrane?

I have no experience with OutDry. According to this article it's PU coating on the exterior of the garment protected by a thin diamond matrix also made of PU. It's an interesting approach. Note lots of OutDry garments are available at closeout prices. I'm interested to hear from users who have put in lots of long hard days.

[mattig]

I have no experience with OutDry. According to this article it's PU coating on the exterior of the garment protected by a thin diamond matrix also made of PU. It's an interesting approach. Note lots of OutDry garments are available at closeout prices. I'm interested to hear from users who have put in lots of long hard days.

Great feedback on waterproofness from a fishing buddy who was a beta tester for it. No exertion-related feedback (re: breathability), but I was able to wear it around the columbia employee store for quite a while fully zipped up. I don't think it's quite as breathable as eVent, but it's surprisingly good for something that looks like a garbage bag. I'm sure there will be a few of them on the mountain this year now that the come in colors other than white.

[XXX-er]

Gortex for the lift and softshell/neo for the BC,
2 different types of exertion, 2 different types of gear. Also consider that the best designs and companies will be using the appropriate fabric

[3PinGrin]

This looks interesting.
https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/the-shell.html

That looks a lot like Tyvek.

[asickles827]

Great feedback on waterproofness from a fishing buddy who was a beta tester for it. No exertion-related feedback (re: breathability), but I was able to wear it around the columbia employee store for quite a while fully zipped up. I don't think it's quite as breathable as eVent, but it's surprisingly good for something that looks like a garbage bag. I'm sure there will be a few of them on the mountain this year now that the come in colors other than white.

Isnt Gore-tex more about the breathability than the waterproofability?

[esseff]

what are you protecting from? Water, wind, cold? All?

I like it but I like eVent also. Its worked very well so far.

Isnt Gore-tex more about the breathability than the waterproofability?

[Best Mexican Skier from Da South]

Gore-Tex is good as are many others like Polar-Tec or EVent.

As long as they are water proof, you’ll be fine with good moisture management that is related to PROPER layering. It’s really about wearing minimal clothing for the job and trying not to sweat too much.

Proper layering is paramount. Branding of breathable fabric is not so important.

[Best Mexican Skier from Da South]

For windy days, a light down jacket under the shell will provide the best wind protection without added bulk. I use a LIGHT First Ascent Stormdown (coated down that provides heat while moist/sweaty) puffy with my base layer and shell.

A fleece neck gaiter is another huge addition for keeping layers minimal. And it’s easy to adjust to cover ears and chin when it’s howling.

So many ways to stay warm and dry out there. Again, most shells will do the trick. But over-dress underneath the shell, and you essentially cancel out the shell’s ability to breathe.

[Falcon3]

In the PNW where you will ski in the rain at times, I wouldn't trust anything but a hard shell 3-layer (Gore Pro is my Go-To- higher breathability ratings than most other 3-layer hard shells.). It breathes reasonably well for me with pit zips and good layering underneath. There have been times I've taken the shell off during a break and inside, there is tiny frost built up only on the seams of the shell where there is less breathability, but the main panels are totally dry, even though I'm steaming like a clam. That to me says it has enough breathability. I've also skiied multiple days in pouring rain and never gotten wet with it.

I don't have multiple sets of gear available, I tend to buy once, cry once. I made the decision to go with Gore Pro from Arc due the fact that if I got caught out in the open (lost, broken leg touring, etc) I would want to be able to survive in my gear and not worry about it (and me) getting wet.

[hafjell]

In the PNW where you will ski in the rain at times, I wouldn't trust anything but a hard shell 3-layer (Gore Pro is my Go-To- higher breathability ratings than most other 3-layer hard shells.). It breathes reasonably well for me with pit zips and good layering underneath. There have been times I've taken the shell off during a break and inside, there is tiny frost built up only on the seams of the shell where there is less breathability, but the main panels are totally dry, even though I'm steaming like a clam. That to me says it has enough breathability. I've also skiied multiple days in pouring rain and never gotten wet with it.

I don't have multiple sets of gear available, I tend to buy once, cry once. I made the decision to go with Gore Pro from Arc due the fact that if I got caught out in the open (lost, broken leg touring, etc) I would want to be able to survive in my gear and not worry about it (and me) getting wet.

Awesome. I've wondered what the PNW skied and skinned in. We get all kinds of weather in N.E. but it's a lot of cold and wind. NeoShell works great in these conditions, especially if you're touring.
Don't think I'll buy it, but would be interested to hear what specific make and model you and other PNWers use.

[AK47bp]

Awesome. I've wondered what the PNW skied and skinned in. We get all kinds of weather in N.E. but it's a lot of cold and wind. NeoShell works great in these conditions, especially if you're touring.
Don't think I'll buy it, but would be interested to hear what specific make and model you and other PNWers use.

Bought these, it hurt the bank account, but well worth it. Skied in a few monsoons and 100% dry.

https://www.arcteryx.com/us/en/shop/mens/stinger-pant

[snoqpass]

Awesome. I've wondered what the PNW skied and skinned in.

We have alternative sports

[FlimFlamvanHam]

this new fabric, "futurelight", from North Face may be interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDyj8FALiG0

I find marketing goes furthest when it comes to waterproof/'breathable". There are a lot of good fabrics out there. None breath well. Some maybe better than others, but I cannot tell it's so marginal.

I have zero affiliation with NF. I just saw a story on this on the TGR homepage a couple days ago but can no longer find it so posted the youtube link above. Be cool if it worked and was durable.

[californiagrown]

Awesome. I've wondered what the PNW skied and skinned in.

I only ski resort if its gonna rain and i know its gonna rain. In that case, i just wear my normal outerwear which is 20k/20k minimum for pants (currently Saga monarch), goretex 2L for jacket (currently Dakine Smyth). Depending on how im feeling ill either just head home at lunch, or bring an old set of outerwear to change into at lunch. That setup gets me through a few hours or rain, or a whole day of wet snow pretty well. I keep my stuff up on NikiWax DWR too.

Honestly though, if it is pissing rain, im not gonna ski. Im gonna be digging trail or riding MTB, or doing errands and watching netflix haha.