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  1. #51
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    Sep 2008
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    Anyone have familiarity / experience w/ Intuitive™ 3-larer fabric? Never heard of it and can't seem to find it on anything other than Fly Low. Sounds like garments with a 10k/10k, 2-layer should be fine for resorts.

  2. #52
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    Dec 2010
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    西 雅 圖
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    Quote Originally Posted by esseff View Post
    Sounds like garments with a 10k/10k, 2-layer should be fine for resorts.
    Depends on your resort.

  3. #53
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    Nov 2007
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    Eburg
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    "water proof" is a continuim [sic]
    Maybe as used in deceptive marketing of Gore, etc., but not per standard English.

    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    So why do you keep buying the stuff?
    Because it has utility as part of a non-conventional system that I use notwithstanding that it's not functionally waterproof after a few months or, at best, a few years. And it's great for snow.
    Last edited by DIYSteve; 11-12-2017 at 11:48 AM.

  4. #54
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Well like I said gortex drysuits do keep me and the bro's prettty dry, certainly dryer than a cheaper coated nylon suit or I would be buying them for sure, I wear HH rubber gear working in the bush and while its water proof I still get pretty wet from within because few thing in life are perfect
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  5. #55
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Dispersion inside is very important for breathing. Without equalizing humidity/temp across the inside of the membrane you get choked (maximum speed) flow in the high temp/humidity regions and less everywhere else. Putting a mesh with a 2-layer laminate is better than nothing, but laminating a dispersion fabric in place (3-layer) sure moves better. And since it doesn't bunch up it usually functions better, at least when combined with a good base and/or mid, which should also be dispersion layers. I only use synthetics, personally.

    And maximum hydrophobic at the base layer (polyester usually) helps. If I have to include wool, getting it to the outside is always better--I have a pet theory that moving toward more hydrophilic as you go out (including outer face fabric) is better but I'm not testing it.
    I have a pair of Pro Shell 3 layer pants and a pair with 2 layer GTX and a mesh lining. My personal experience is that the latter is both warmer and less wet from the inside.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    491
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Well like I said gortex drysuits do keep me and the bro's prettty dry
    Serious question Al, i'm not a paddler so i got no clue. Do you guys work hard enough paddling to create the same perspiration/moisture as ski touring...just wondering if it's the same apples to apples comparison in terms of comparing breathability of gtex.
    What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?

  7. #57
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    Apr 2006
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    Wasatch
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    4,478

    Gore-Tex still the best?

    I like gore for pants and event or neosheel up top breathes better and regulates. Gore has the best warranty but it is not best IMO due to better breathers for your core
    Last edited by whyturn; 01-27-2016 at 07:49 AM.
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we have finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    20, 18, 16, 18, 13, 17, 8

    2016/2017 (18/19)

  8. #58
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Innsbruck, Austria
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    478
    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    Serious question Al, i'm not a paddler so i got no clue. Do you guys work hard enough paddling to create the same perspiration/moisture as ski touring...just wondering if it's the same apples to apples comparison in terms of comparing breathability of gtex.
    Definitely.

    For a start, it's not uncommon to be kayaking in freezing glacial melt rivers that require a dry suit (in case of a swim, or doing safety for someone, etc) in warm summer air temperatures.

    Otherwise it depends on the river, how intense the rapids are, how continuous it is, and how difficult it is. There's a lot of floating and using the waves and currents to move around, but there's also a lot of sprinting to get around rocks/punching lateral waves, avoiding holes etc.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    460
    Quote Originally Posted by ClarkleberryFinn View Post
    Definitely.

    For a start, it's not uncommon to be kayaking in freezing glacial melt rivers that require a dry suit (in case of a swim, or doing safety for someone, etc) in warm summer air temperatures.

    Otherwise it depends on the river, how intense the rapids are, how continuous it is, and how difficult it is. There's a lot of floating and using the waves and currents to move around, but there's also a lot of sprinting to get around rocks/punching lateral waves, avoiding holes etc.
    Moreover you're completely sealed with a drysuit, so ANY perspiration stays in the suit, vs with skiing, air can always get out through the neck etc. You're not in an airtight seal.

  10. #60
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    Feb 2005
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    Vancouver BC
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    Been using Mountain Hardwear's DryQ Elite (similar to eVent, licensed from GE) for the past few seasons of resort/day tours in the Sea to Sky and have been very happy with performance. I do have to wash my jacket/pants pretty often (say every 15 days if it's wet out) but it keeps me dry and breathes pretty well. To be fair, I do not skin in my shell unless it's really blowing or raining because I run very hot.

    I wanted to go new Gore Pro Arcteryx but their pieces do not fit me.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    switzerland
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    45
    So has anyone tried the new 2016 Gore stuff? I see the "new tech" label on the jackets, but no way I'm dropping another 500$ on a jacket. I've had a Stoic eVENT shell, which was great, until the membrane just started to break down (I'm not talking blistering, but just having the silver lining disappear/disintegrate on the inside of the shell) on the shoulders. I have a Stoic softshell that with reapplying DWR seems to be completely epic over the last 6 (6!) years. I have (had) a Rab Neoshell jacket for 18 months, but its completely shit the dog now with the membrane breaking down. I sent pictures to the mfger asking what can I do to fix this (again its like the membrane on the inside of the jacket gets sanded away), they said send it in for replacement. Great, that's not exactly what I want to do every year...

    I have some Trewth bibs (a few years old) that are fucking bombproof over time, they don't breathe amazingly but I don't need them to, they're big enough that there's enough air down there to move around and keep me cool, and they don't ever soak through on chairs or wet spring days. It just wouldn't work for a jacket, I get way too hot, and Neoshell was great for that.

  12. #62
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    I have a fairly cheap Marmot WPB ski jacket with Membrain--a Marmot proprietary membrane, that seems to work pretty well for resort skiing in warm, cold, wet, and dry conditions.

  13. #63
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    Nov 2002
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    Eagle River Alaska
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    having spent time in yakutat where it rains and rains and rains.... And a large percentage of my life in waders. Yes goretex in the best
    Its not that I suck at spelling, its that I just don't care

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    1,780
    Quote Originally Posted by vostok4 View Post
    I have (had) a Rab Neoshell jacket for 18 months, but its completely shit the dog now with the membrane breaking down. I sent pictures to the mfger asking what can I do to fix this (again its like the membrane on the inside of the jacket gets sanded away)....
    I read this as saying Rab was/is selling a 2-layer Neoshell, i.e. no inside fabric covering the membrane, is that right? I've handled a couple of their pieces but can't recall the inside (I do remember them as having more stretch). My Freeride Systems neoshell is a 3-layer, and this certainly presents another argument for sticking with that, if I'm understanding you right. I guess 2-layer would be a lighter jacket but I'm sure I would add that back in base/mid-layers anyway.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    310
    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    I read this as saying Rab was/is selling a 2-layer Neoshell, i.e. no inside fabric covering the membrane, is that right? I've handled a couple of their pieces but can't recall the inside (I do remember them as having more stretch). My Freeride Systems neoshell is a 3-layer, and this certainly presents another argument for sticking with that, if I'm understanding you right. I guess 2-layer would be a lighter jacket but I'm sure I would add that back in base/mid-layers anyway.
    I have the Rab Neo Guide jacket - tech specs on the websites say 3-layer. It does have an interior covering, but it doesn't feel like it's a full, discrete fabric layer, more of a slightly fuzzy coating. It is nicely stretchy, much more than my OR GoreTex White Room pants (which are marketed as stretch also). Durability isn't amazing... interior coating of my Neo Guide pants was wearing off quickly from my Dynafit boot buckles, and there are a lot of fuzz threads on the outside as others mentioned (although not a problem).

    Blister posted a nice review of the Trew Wander jacket, which uses that Derzimax NX or whatever... the newer more breathable laminate.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    37N 122W
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    384
    So, the OP is wondering about kit to wear at a ski resort in near to below freezing temps. Assume not touring, not wearing a pack, not beating it to death with "hard mountain use." Has to stand up to storms that you want to ski in as well as storms you REALLY want to ski in.

    For me, I've returned to GoreTex Pro Shell for this use. It breaths enough, stays waterproof enough, is durable enough, is generally made in models with the right feature set for resort skiing and generally can be found in a style to suit your taste. Honestly, I've found construction, fit and features to be just as important as fabric for resort use. The farther below freezing you expect to use your gear (within reason) the less important it is to go with top of the line Gore/Event. Currently I have a slightly less expensive, durable GoreTex pant (dont know the specific membrane type) and a 2015 GoreTex Pro jacket. I find this is a reasonable combination for the resort where I want a little more performance out of my jacket but my legs generally do OK with lower breathability and higher durability.

    For the backcountry and "hard mountain use" go soft shell and wait for good weather. Put in the bottom of your pack the lightest weight jacket you can find in top of the line gore/event. Expect to replace it after moderate use...But the goal is to never use it.

    That said, membrane softshells like NeoShell, Power Shield Pro, Gore "soft shell" and others are great luxury items in my opinion. They could potentially represent your quiver of one resort outerwear if you find the weatherproof/breathability balance acceptable for your use. They are fantastic at the resort and for single day use where weight is less of a factor and comfort/useability/aesthetics is king. They usually look good and remain comfy in almost any conditions encountered at the resort. I also love them for ice cragging. I love my knifeblade jacket (power shield pro) for the resort and single day ice climbing. I have spent full days out in the dumping snow in both the resort and ice climbing and been very comfortable. I dont have much experience in wet snow but others have written reviews attesting to its ability. I can say with confidence that I'd much rather be in my power shield pro jacket than my gore pro fabric if it's sunny. For regular resort use, I would prefer a more resort oriented feature set that isn't aimed at saving weight. Power shield pro (and the new gore pro, for that matter) is noticeably cooler. Layer appropriately.

    Note: The knifeblade is known for major delamination problems. Hopefully the new combination of fabrics in the kniferidge line is much improved. It certainly feels better in hand.
    "Kids today, all they talk about is big air. I say, stay on the mountain, that's where the action is. If you want big air, pull my finger." ~Smooth Johnson~

  17. #67
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by enginerd View Post
    Currently I have a slightly less expensive, durable GoreTex pant
    "Pants" goddamit, unless you have one leg.
    I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    NorCal
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    357
    Resurrecting thread. New season coming and new gear needed. Been reading on fabrics/materials for windproof/waterproof for resort wear.

    Anyone familiar w/Helly Hansen Tech XP material? Its been replaced by their new materials but its a soft face. I have it on jacket / pants that will be replaced and I've never gotten wet. I don't "think" I need to go Gore Tex but was looking for a material that would feel/function same/similar.

    Neoshell? E-vent? Something else? I suspect 10k/10k is fine. Not booting uphill much so venting / breathability is not a primary concern. Keeping out wind, water and staying warm are primary concerns.

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    23
    Neoshell and eVent are still the best ones in my experience. Although the newer fabrics that promise not to "wet out" from Columbia and a few other makers are definitely intriguing. In theory it should make a less breathable fabric better than a more breathable fabric that wets out once the DWR wears out or after prolonged rain

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
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    4,478
    I really like event for resort jackets. Neo shell for hiking, snowshoe and tour. Still wear gore pants for durability. Breathability in jacket is key. I have to layer more if it's really windy or crispy but it has broader temp range for sure. Never wetted out on me and retreat every year or two. Just wash and go, easy peezy
    Gore pro is more hardcore waterproof and better with durability if event is thin. I have 820 event so no issue there
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we have finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    20, 18, 16, 18, 13, 17, 8

    2016/2017 (18/19)

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ontario Canada eh
    Posts
    1,809
    Just did 3 days at Alta and SB and for the first time I was using Gore Tex Pro Jacket and Bib pants.
    I've used all sorts of combinations from Active to Regular Gtx to Paclite Hybrid and simply put Gore Tex Pro rocks.
    No overheating rarely did I need to open any vent save for in the lodge or car ride to the hill.
    Sure my event Jacket is better at high output but for resort skiing it worked great with my Patty Nano Air jacket + Vest and Polartec Alpha layer pant.
    In another thread I stated I was concerned about the inner thigh vents and not anymore.
    Very impressed
    Should note prior to my trip I put on all my layers and hang around inside my house to see my breaking point to over heating. I could have sat on my couch for hours. Funny that Patty Nano Air did seem to make me over heat with other jacket like my H/H-just HellyTech, MH Gore-tex Proshell.
    Just when I was thinking time to invest in NeoShell I'm totally satisfied with Gtx Pro....hail to the the king
    Last edited by Kenny Satch; 11-11-2017 at 02:07 PM.

  22. #72
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    Jan 2010
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    In the swamp
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    Gore-Tex still the best?

    Torn between Gore-Tex or Neoshell for resort skiing. Sounds like the consensus is that Neoshell is great for touring or hiking a lot but for riding cold windy lifts, Gtex is still the way to go?
    Last edited by The SnowShow; 11-11-2017 at 11:23 AM.

  23. #73
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    Jan 2009
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    Squaw valley
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    1,490
    Gtx still the best

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

  24. #74
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by The SnowShow View Post
    Torn between Gore-Tex or Neoshell for resort skiing. Sounds like the consensus is that Neoshell is great for touring or hiking a lot but for riding cold windy lifts, Gtex is still the way to go?
    I haven't used Neoshell so I can't compare, but where Gore Tex stands out is in the rain. I don't think it's better or worse than anything else in the cold and wind. That depends more on the construction--quality of the zippers, sealing at the cuffs and neck, lined or unlined--than on the fabric.

  25. #75
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    Sep 2006
    Location
    Rossland BC
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    Gore proshell for sticking it out the longest on the shittiest days.


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