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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    279

    Blizzard Cochise too stiff for me?

    Stupid phone posted before I was done typing...

    I've skied maybe 12 days on the 2014/2015 185 Cochise and I think they're too stiff but on paper they look exactly what I want. I've skied 177 and 184 Volkl Mantras for last 9 years and love them. I realize they are different skis but the mantras are stiff skis and I have not problem flexing and getting forward on them.

    What specifically is different with the Cochise that I can't flex these bitches? The mantras feel stiffer with a hand flex too.

    I'm on dynafit Titans with pro tongue intuition liners. 6'1" 175lb and like long walks on the beach.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    idaho panhandle!
    Posts
    6,971
    Ok

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    962
    you can sell it, there is someone here looking to buy a 185 cochise

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    324
    $200 flat shipped to 81657? What bsl and bindings currently mounted?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    246
    You need the 193!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    5,521
    FWIW, the Cochise isn't that stiff actually. Try steroids?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    The dark side of Lone Peak, MT
    Posts
    116
    Don't know what to tell you. I'm the same height, ten pounds lighter, ski the same boot and think they are the best ski I've ever owned. 14/15 model is my second pair of Cochises. Perfect flex, side cut, stability, durability etc. for me. My current pair is getting pretty banged up; please let me know if you want to sell.
    Originally Posted by nickwm21
    "hitting rocks ain't normal use in their eyes..."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    6,101
    Cochises are less work than Mantras in most ways. Maybe you just don't like them.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    20,273
    the newer cochise (carbon tip) is the same flex, but with the carbon, and the zeroG is lighter still (and same newer shape)


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dreamland
    Posts
    898
    I've got 185 Cochises and have skied the 184 Mantras. Both good skis, but they operate very differently. Mantras (particularly the older ones) drive from the front, and the Cochises from the middle. If you jump on the front of the Cochises they do not respond well and feel like they are too stiff. Just angulate them and push down on your heels. If you have any movement in your bindings try moving them back a centimeter. They have a big sweet spot and ski shorter than the Mantras.

    If you can rock the Mantras you are obviously a good skier. You just need to transfer to the "new school" to rip the Cochises.
    Gravity Junkie

    How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    6,101
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudfoot View Post
    I've got 185 Cochises and have skied the 184 Mantras. Both good skis, but they operate very differently. Mantras (particularly the older ones) drive from the front, and the Cochises from the middle. If you jump on the front of the Cochises they do not respond well and feel like they are too stiff. Just angulate them and push down on your heels. If you have any movement in your bindings try moving them back a centimeter. They have a big sweet spot and ski shorter than the Mantras.

    If you can rock the Mantras you are obviously a good skier. You just need to transfer to the "new school" to rip the Cochises.
    Well said.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    3,161
    The Cochise is not especially stiff to flex, but torsionally it's stiffer than anything else in the 108mm class. The tail locks into a turn like a pit bull on the mailman's leg; no slarve in them at all. My 185's kick my butt in choppy bumps and tight trees, but are the best wide-ish ski I've ever used for steep smooth terrain.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Isle of Rhodes
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudfoot View Post
    If you have any movement in your bindings try moving them back a centimeter. They have a big sweet spot and ski shorter than the Mantras.
    That would be my suggestion, moving them back 1-2cm

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    279
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudfoot View Post
    I've got 185 Cochises and have skied the 184 Mantras. Both good skis, but they operate very differently. Mantras (particularly the older ones) drive from the front, and the Cochises from the middle. If you jump on the front of the Cochises they do not respond well and feel like they are too stiff. Just angulate them and push down on your heels. If you have any movement in your bindings try moving them back a centimeter. They have a big sweet spot and ski shorter than the Mantras.

    If you can rock the Mantras you are obviously a good skier. You just need to transfer to the "new school" to rip the Cochises.
    Hmmm interesting. Binders can't move but I'll try this middle voodoo magic you speak of. Thanks for the suggestions.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dreamland
    Posts
    898
    Traditional ski turn = #1 weight tip and hook it up, causing #2 decamber and flexing of ski, followed by #3 roll weight back to middle of ski and continue to angulate as necessary, ending with #4 relax and ride out the turn on the flexed and angulated ski.

    With rockered skis you can skip steps #1 and #2 and simply angulate and stomp on the ski. The tip rocker actually inhibits trying to do #1 and #2 because by the time you get the tip to hook up by forward weighting you are so far forward you are already fucked before the turn starts. Standing in the middle of the ski at the start you are already where you want to be at the end of the turn, you just need to realize it.

    Voodoo is generally facilitated by an altered state of mind. In your case a little weed might help. You are trying to undo what has over many years become a natural turn initiation, so be patient.
    Gravity Junkie

    How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,006
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudfoot View Post
    Traditional ski turn = #1 weight tip and hook it up, causing #2 decamber and flexing of ski, followed by #3 roll weight back to middle of ski and continue to angulate as necessary, ending with #4 relax and ride out the turn on the flexed and angulated ski.

    With rockered skis you can skip steps #1 and #2 and simply angulate and stomp on the ski. The tip rocker actually inhibits trying to do #1 and #2 because by the time you get the tip to hook up by forward weighting you are so far forward you are already fucked before the turn starts. Standing in the middle of the ski at the start you are already where you want to be at the end of the turn, you just need to realize it.

    Voodoo is generally facilitated by an altered state of mind. In your case a little weed might help. You are trying to undo what has over many years become a natural turn initiation, so be patient.
    Exactly my observations. I was late to the party with rockered skis - only last year picking up a pair of Atomic Automatic 109's and a pair of carbon Megawatts, and starting this year off with a pair o GPOs. I had been mostly skiing a pair of G3 Reverends and K2 Coombas (2nd year - no rocker). Mounting points are definitely a consideration of course, and there are enough threads on this topic to keep you busy for a while.

    You'll adapt pretty quickly once you understand what they're all about. After ten-ish days on my new school skis, going back to the Reverends took 30 or 40 turns to readjust.

    Cheers,
    Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    279
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudfoot View Post
    Traditional ski turn = #1 weight tip and hook it up, causing #2 decamber and flexing of ski, followed by #3 roll weight back to middle of ski and continue to angulate as necessary, ending with #4 relax and ride out the turn on the flexed and angulated ski.

    With rockered skis you can skip steps #1 and #2 and simply angulate and stomp on the ski. The tip rocker actually inhibits trying to do #1 and #2 because by the time you get the tip to hook up by forward weighting you are so far forward you are already fucked before the turn starts. Standing in the middle of the ski at the start you are already where you want to be at the end of the turn, you just need to realize it.

    Voodoo is generally facilitated by an altered state of mind. In your case a little weed might help. You are trying to undo what has over many years become a natural turn initiation, so be patient.
    Does this have a more noticeable effect on gradual rocker as opposed to larger or "powder" rocker? I don't have any problems on my 192 Atomic Bent Chetlers and I can even ski bumps better.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dreamland
    Posts
    898
    Depends on a lot of factors related to the front end like tip width and splay, tip & forebody flex, amount of rocker, sidecut, etc. The difference between the Bent Chetlers and the Cochises is probable due to the side cut (20 m vs. 28.5 m), or it could be that the BCs are so wide you are just slaving. Bottom line is that if you are looking for a Mantra like hookup on the front of a rockered wide waisted ski it might be a long search, during which your ski will probably begin to feel too long and stiff.
    Gravity Junkie

    How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    279
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudfoot View Post
    Traditional ski turn = #1 weight tip and hook it up, causing #2 decamber and flexing of ski, followed by #3 roll weight back to middle of ski and continue to angulate as necessary, ending with #4 relax and ride out the turn on the flexed and angulated ski.

    With rockered skis you can skip steps #1 and #2 and simply angulate and stomp on the ski. The tip rocker actually inhibits trying to do #1 and #2 because by the time you get the tip to hook up by forward weighting you are so far forward you are already fucked before the turn starts. Standing in the middle of the ski at the start you are already where you want to be at the end of the turn, you just need to realize it.

    Voodoo is generally facilitated by an altered state of mind. In your case a little weed might help. You are trying to undo what has over many years become a natural turn initiation, so be patient.
    Mudfoot you were spot on. I stopped putting forward pressure and it made a HUGE difference. They hook up on groomers much better and at slower speeds too. Skied the bumps pretty good too.

    I think each day out I kept putting more and more tip pressure thinking they were stiff and they just kept throwing me back harder and harder.

    Thanks for tips! I owe you a beer

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,271
    I am happy you didn't give up. Sometime you just need some time to find a Skis sweet spot. Good luck
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dreamland
    Posts
    898
    Bingo, we have a winner!
    Gravity Junkie

    How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    19,980
    Full rockered skis are weird.
    I keep thinking the Volkl 108 looks cool, but I saw it at REI and it had no camber underfoot. I was like :?
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    279
    Not that anyone cares but I mounted the binding back 1.5cm behind FL and that solved my problem. Also discovered Edgeworks original mount was actually .5cm forward wtf. I know mount your own fucking skis...

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    1,749
    I have a nice quiver, and my Cochise 185 are one of the favorite skis evar for more conditions than I would have ever thought.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,271
    bumping this cause i just scored a cherry pair of these...dont know exactly what year...1st or 2nd I guess...brown bull topsheet...anyway...took em out for one afternoon of wind sift at Alta Sunday...i enjoyed them and cant wait to put more time on them...185cm (measures very close to the 188 R2 115 i typically ski less rocker though). I am 6'3", 195-200lbs. I think the 193 is more work then I can to put in these days..too fucking old
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

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