Monica Lewinsky 17 years later

[Cruiser]

yeah, I know, women are not suppose to have opinions, especially when they disagree with men... lay down on your back and shut up, right?

Better to go for if doggy style if you've got that kind if attitude.

[GeezerSteve]

I can attest per personal knowledge that mtngirl in person was pleasant company when we hung out with her for a weekend of spring touring a few years ago. Maybe the keyboard triggers an alternative, darker, personality. Or maybe she's in a deep funk. Or maybe both.

Of course, this has nothing to do with Monica Lewinsky, (self-titled) Patient Zero of Internet Shame and her successful effort to ca$h in on her Professional Victim status.

Or does it?

[AK47bp]

yeah, I know, women are not suppose to have opinions, especially when they disagree with men... lay down on your back and shut up, right?

Finally your talkin some sense, now if you could just put this knowledge into practice and stop cunting up this place with your shit

Post cool stuff, funny stuff, interesting stuff, you know, like you did before the meltdown.

FYI. If you were a dude festooning this board with your self loathing bullshit you'd of been torn apart. Too many gentlemen in here.

[Timberridge]

festooning

A very underused and underrated word. I must find more opportunities to use it my vocabulary.

[AK47bp]

A very underused and underrated word. I must find more opportunities to use it my vocabulary.

I picked it up from Daniel Day Lewis's character in Gangs of New York. The butcher. Great performance.

[GeezerSteve]

Great movie

go ski some shit, it makes the other crap better.

Bobby wisdom QFT

[bagtagley]

Interesting speech. It didn't occur to me the media shift that was happening at the same time. Nor how difficult her life became as a result.

Tough situation. Hard to fault for any more than being a human being.

[plugboots]

Interesting speech. It didn't occur to me the media shift that was happening at the same time. Nor how difficult her life became as a result.

Tough situation. Hard to fault for any more than being a human being.

Well, she didn't have to suck his dick.

[twodogs]

Well, she didn't have to suck his dick.

This puts her at fault for what now?

[GeezerSteve]

J,

First, it's bullshit to accuse all men of judging women only by attractiveness. I grew up with 4 sisters. 3 of them were HS valedictorians, the other one of the most talent people I've ever known. 1 had a very successful legal career, a partner in one of Seattle's finest law firms, then did her public service as an assistant U.S. Attorney before she retired. 1 is a college professor. 1 has had a successful career in biz. None of them are on the attractive end of the spectrum, but they nonetheless achieved because they had brains, a work ethic and never played the victim.

So, please stop with the sweeping accusations.

As for victims cashing in, what should the "punishment" be for a 22 year old girl/woman be for having an affair with her boss? Are we really laying most of the blame on a 22 year old rather than the most powerful mam in the world at that time?

Did you actually watch the video and/or read her Vanity Fair piece? She acknowledged that it was a consensual affair, thus nobody is "to blame." What are you trying to say?

I NEVER shamed Monica for engaging in consensual sex. Nor did most men. Stop with the false accusations. She has also been the subject of pity and empathy.

Now Monica is a Professional Victim, the self-proclaimed "Patient Zero of Internet Shame," yet a couple years ago she signed a $12,000,000 book deal to tell her story. Where's the victimhood in that? One who plays Professional Victim, woman or man, is necessarily fair game to criticize as cashing in on their self-assigned claim of victim status.

There are far too many women victims in this world, e.g., battered women, women stoned to death, talented women getting fucked over in the biz world, sexual harassment victims. But assigning victim poster child status to an overprivileged rich girl from Westside Brentwood who signed a $12,000,000 book deal, and otherwised cashed in on her fame (e.g., Weight Watchers gig, reality TV gigs) and now a Ted Talk gig? WTF? Good for her for cashing in. But, victim poster child? No. Fuck no.

And the empathy thing? Do you remember what Monica said about Hillary? Monica had ZERO empathy for Hil, but now we're all obligated to weep for Monica?

[bagtagley]

Well, she didn't have to suck his dick.

They never HAVE to. Thank goodness they ignore their better judgment from time to time.

She may or may not have loved Clinton, but I have little doubt she thought that blowing the president would benefit her somehow. And in the end, I guess she was right.

[iceman]

She had a line of handbags for a while there, I wonder if she still does.

Probably she could sell the hell out of a line of spotted dresses.

[GeezerSteve]

[plugboots]

I see this sort of thing, and I think: "There's lots of ways to make money in America"

[twodogs]

If I was a chick I'd probably do porn.

[rather ripped]

As for victims cashing in, what should the "punishment" be for a 22 year old girl/woman be for having an affair with her boss? Are we really laying most of the blame on a 22 year old rather than the most powerful man in the world at that time? What about Kenedy and Marilyn Monroe? Nobody hates her, nobody is making jokes about her...

So sorry if this rings a little bit close to home for me. Monica certainly was a victim, and she certainly did not and does not deserve to be a life long joke. And her cause, internet bullying, shaming is a real thing and it DOES ruin lives. If her notoriety brings light to that, then good.

It is time that other people's pain, hardships and shortcoming stop being entertainment.

And this whole issue circles around and back to women and how they are treated by the media, by society, by each other... it's slut shaming, high five the dude, shame the slut.

I hate slut shaming, but when information like this (her "sex relations") gets out, certain types of people are going to grab a hold and tear her down. There are many men and even some women who hate women. Monica made a huge mistake sharing this event with anyone. What was she thinking?

Looking at harm done, I can't see how her behavior could cause such trouble except for the woman who broke her confidence. If no one knew about it, then it's no big deal. She is a victim because she leaked it and Clinton got dragged through the mud too. What motivated her to talk to Tripp? ...the center of all evil.

The other aspect of the hate she (and Clinton) experienced was the political witch hunt, the feeding frenzy. The "event" is still being used to discredit the Clintons and Monica gets dragged along.

[mtngirl79]

Wasn't there also allegations that Clinton was inappropriate with another staff member?

Either way... Bill Clinton, adult male prez of world super power or 22 year old girl/woman... is it unreasonable to put a higher standard for grown up behavior on the prez of the great USA?

[stuckathuntermtn]

Has this thread really gone 4 pages without anyone mentioning that physical appearance is a pretty big deal for men too? tl;dr
How many jokes are there about Trump's hair? It's not even funny anymore. John Boener got made fun of so much for being orange, it seems like he actually toned down the bronzer. Worse for women? Probably. But don't think men don't get made fun of or feel pressure. Shit, look at Bill nowadays. He's way too thin!

[Rodneyyee]

Sorry, you're right. Wasn't one of the first comments in this thread she'd lost weight? She's hot?

What if she did this talk when she was still fat? How would TGR have reacted then?
you should
I'm not taking issue with Monica. Hell, I would have sucked the prez's cock when I was 22. It's hard to say no to a man you respect... it's fucked up many women. Most, probably.

Really-Get help or a life? Negativity and stupidity with solitary living on the internet is not a good combo.

[Rodneyyee]

It's not a joke, though. It's a real issue. Like Hilary. How many times do you see her words ignored while her appearance is made fun of.

That doesn't happen nearly on the same level to men and woman are the worse offenders, but it's self protection.

So go ahead. A lot of you have daughters and every woman is someone's daughter. Is yours fuckable? Is her ass shaped just right? Did she ever suck an old man's cock?

How about you treat everyone else's daughter how you want yours to be treated?

You're right. noooooooobodyyyyyyy makes fun of trumps look. It's all fair game-chicks are just as bad if not worse then men. Get over it. The world is an unfair horrible place. The internet is what you make it-for you it is your little voice that usually speaks in the presence of a professional.

[Danno]

Has this thread really gone 4 pages without anyone mentioning that physical appearance is a pretty big deal for men too? tl;dr
How many jokes are there about Trump's hair? It's not even funny anymore. John Boener got made fun of so much for being orange, it seems like he actually toned down the bronzer. Worse for women? Probably. But don't think men don't get made fun of or feel pressure. Shit, look at Bill nowadays. He's way too thin!

Seriously? You're an idiot.

[GeezerSteve]

If you've spent much time in the world of big business you know that, with the exception of company founders (e.g., Bill Gates), male CEO's are usually very attractive. See CEO Attractiveness and Success.

I've been associated with the commercial real estate biz for 30 years, yet I have never met nor seen an unattractive commercial real estate broker, male or female. I've seen the same trend re industrial equipment sales.

Juries tend to give bigger awards to attractive plaintiffs, men and women.

Teachers give more attention to attractive students, both girls and boys.

Attractive people, men and women, get breaks that unattractive people don't get. Duh.

[iceman]

...the hotness over powers the deed

It's more of a synergy thing.

[GeezerSteve]

But when women are in the news, it's always about appearance

C'mon J, that's utter bullshit. I do not recall anyone making comments about the following women newsmakers' respective appearances:

2015 Time Person of the Year Angela Merkel
2014 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Malala Yousafzai
2013 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Tawakkul Karman
Condoleezza Rice
Nancy Pelozi
Barbara Boxer
Melinda Gates
Margaret Thatcher
Madeline Albright
2004 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Wangari Muta Maathai
2003 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Shirin Ebadi

I could name 100 more. No, make that 1,000 more.

One more thing: The kind of person who nobody wants to be around: a self-pitying downer. Nobody wants to be around a downer. Seriously, J, think about it.

[Danno]

It's silly that some of you are arguing with mtgirl, as if her point is untrue. It isn't. Yes, men are judged by looks too, but pointing that out is like pointing out that men are victims of rape. Technically true, but totally missing the point. She is absolutely correct about how women and their appearance is judged in a completely different way, a way that is completely wrong.

I may have issues with her delivery or the utter lack of understanding of context and time and place to fight battles (if she cares about fighting them effectively, but maybe she doesn't). But the substance is on point.