Plum Race 165 binding - durable enough for every day use?

**ccl** · 11-24-2015, 07:11 PM

Last season I had some Plum Race 165 heels mounted with a Dynafit Radical toe on some narrow ski mountaineering boards. Seemed like a solid combo but they were only used a couple of times. I'm thinking of moving this set up to my daily skis that currently have Speed Turns on them, but I'm wondering if anyone had any input on the day-in, day-out durability of the Plum heel piece. I'm pushing 200 pounds, but tend to be a fairly smooth skier and am typically not that hard on my gear. But I will be skiing them ca. 75 or more days per winter.

The few times I used them last winter I had no issues with pre-release and it's my understanding the RV is in the 8 neighborhood which is often what my Dynafits are at.

Any thoughts on long term durability?

**truax** · 11-24-2015, 11:04 PM

Yup. About as durable as they come in my experience. I have dozens of days on both the 145 and 165 without any issues. This is my third season on the 145/165. They're more robust than complex bindings such as many of Dynafit's heels, esp the radical. As for adequate heel rise for your intended use, that's another question. I'm only on the 165 now on a pair of Seven Summits while Speed Turn 2.0s are on my fatter skis due to my preference for a high rise. But no problems whatsoever with Plum's 145/165 heel durability. Bomber and simple.

Edit: And for reference I'm 150 lbs soaking wet, but have a ski partner at ~200+ using the 165 on his mountaineering setup for two seasons now with probably 30+ days with no issues.

**Nordic Giant** · 11-25-2015, 01:14 AM

Can't comment on the race heel, however--
I used a speed radical toe + B&D shim plate along with the Plum Guide heel on my Voile V6's last year. Prob about 40 days? No problems to report. Good amount of climbing lift although you lose a bit if you have a shim under the toe. Higher release values if you need it. Not a race binding heel, but how much more does it actually weigh?
I'm well over 200 lbs, used to break a lot of shit but don't huck a damn thing anymore and have made a concerted effort to ski smoother and be more careful over the last five years.
I do still lock the toes I guess if I'm in a high consequence place with hard snow.
I HAVE enjoyed that setup enough that I bought two more sets this summer . . .

**skifishbum** · 11-25-2015, 08:22 AM

no idea about the 165 but based on the number of issues we had on the initial group buy of plums and their piss poor customer service and warranty
i'd say meh durability and shitty custy service = much better products out there
pretty stoked on the atk freeraider 14 myself

**Lindahl** · 11-25-2015, 09:21 AM

Wasn't that in the plum guide toes only? (the issues)

Lovin my ATKs also.

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 11-25-2015, 09:39 AM

FYI, I've heard from multiple sources that is Plum Guide toe problem is fixed. Some of the early black toes still broke, but they seem to have (finally) solved their mess. No idea if customer service has improved.

I believe ATK also had a bunch of toe failures with the early RT bindings that were rebadged as La Sportiva bindings. Dynafit had radical heels blow up because of bad screws and questionable design. Ion brakes can be uncooperative, and the release settings sometimes creep downward. Kingpin and Vipec toe pins fall out. Onyx heel lifters liked to blow up. Comforts, Vertical and Speeds are prone to prerelease at the toe if you ski too aggressively. Speeds with shorter heel pins were prone to prerelease with soft skis when a ski was over-cambered while behind pulled upward out of heavy snow. Beasts have picky toes and sticky heel lifters. Titanium race binding heel pins wear out pretty quickly. All sorts of tech heels will blow up if you jump off big stuff and smash the heel into the back of your boot. Lateral release resistance decreases as thimble bushings wear. And some boots don't work well with certain bindings because of either boot toe fittings vary by brand or incompatibility with Beast heel fittings.

What did I miss? Someone should make a collective thread describing all the strengths, faults and failures of various tech bindings.

Oh, and I have no experience with any race heels. Jonathan S. will be answering your questions with enormous detail in 3-2-1....

**strawjack** · 11-25-2015, 09:40 AM

Who is the US distributor for the ATK's? You guys find them at a local shop?

**timmaio** · 11-25-2015, 09:49 AM

ATKs are all bought overseas. ATK has no intention of distributing in the US. I've got a pair of ATK RT extra that I bought for sale, $450. 175 gr binding with 5-10 adjustable release. PM if interested.

**timmaio** · 11-25-2015, 05:50 PM

Also, I have a pair of Plum 165 on my light touring ski, about 30 days on them, mostly last year. And no issues(except I don't like how the toe lock mechanism works. It isn't positive enough. Often comes unlocked when I'm ripping skins)

**Lindahl** · 11-25-2015, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

FYI, I've heard from multiple sources that is Plum Guide toe problem is fixed. Some of the early black toes still broke, but they seem to have (finally) solved their mess. No idea if customer service has improved.

I believe ATK also had a bunch of toe failures with the early RT bindings that were rebadged as La Sportiva bindings. Dynafit had radical heels blow up because of bad screws and questionable design. Ion brakes can be uncooperative, and the release settings sometimes creep downward. Kingpin and Vipec toe pins fall out. Onyx heel lifters liked to blow up. Comforts, Vertical and Speeds are prone to prerelease at the toe if you ski too aggressively. Speeds with shorter heel pins were prone to prerelease with soft skis when a ski was over-cambered while behind pulled upward out of heavy snow. Beasts have picky toes and sticky heel lifters. Titanium race binding heel pins wear out pretty quickly. All sorts of tech heels will blow up if you jump off big stuff and smash the heel into the back of your boot. Lateral release resistance decreases as thimble bushings wear. And some boots don't work well with certain bindings because of either boot toe fittings vary by brand or incompatibility with Beast heel fittings.

What did I miss? Someone should make a collective thread describing all the strengths, faults and failures of various tech bindings.

Oh, and I have no experience with any race heels. Jonathan S. will be answering your questions with enormous detail in 3-2-1....

The Vipec toe pin stripping out is fixed. But the heel can, in the right conditions, pack up with snow.

Its also different than dynafit to step in. People make a big deal out of it, but on my first day, it really doesn't seem as bad as everyone says it is. Sure its fiddly, but so is Dynafit. Its a lot easier than I was expecting and believe that once I dial it in more, it'll be just as easy as Dynafit.

The snow packing is the only real issue, imo. Haven't experienced it yet though (and the new black Vipec supposedly fixees it).

**sgiachetti** · 11-25-2015, 11:35 PM

I've used 165's mounted to cho oyu's for a bunch of days the last two springs and the binding has held up well. I'm not an aggressive skier FWIW. Skimo.co sells replacement parts for everything though if you do have any issues. I'm not sure I would ski it everyday, but its stood up well to about 40ish days.

**ccl** · 11-26-2015, 06:57 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll give them a try.

**jmars** · 11-26-2015, 07:37 AM

Isn't the kingpin toe issue fixed?

**Jonathan S.** · 11-26-2015, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

Oh, and I have no experience with any race heels. Jonathan S. will be answering your questions with enormous detail in 3-2-1....

Heh, on my phone at t day dinner with relatives so any detail will await return to full keyboard.
So only the Plum 135 and 99 have Ti heel pins. The 145, 150, 165, 170, and 185 all have steel. The Ti pins do get notched but it's an issue of eventually becoming rattly and potentially interfering with release as opposed to catastrophic failure. Plus they're easy to replace.
All the heels except the 99 are essentially the same with differences only fore aft adjustment range. And they're all such simple designs with very little to go wrong. Plus relatively beefy compared to many of the newer race designs like the 99 or the Dynafit LTR old or current.
So I think I have seven pairs of Plum race heels some with Plum race toes and some with Dynafit Speed Superlite toes. (All three race setups and one near race are all LTR.) Widest ski with any use so far is Dynafit Denali. Looking forward to the Nano this season.
I've put them through as much use and abuse as possible for 145 pounds and no air time. A couple absurdly old 145 pairs have a little bit of play around the pedestal. A really old 165 is still tight as new.
Okay, back to post dinner shenanigans with daughter and her cousins ... maybe eventually we can even go home so I can get some sleep after two 4:30 wake ups in a row for dawn patrols.

**Jonathan S.** · 11-26-2015, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by timmaio

Also, I have a pair of Plum 165 on my light touring ski, about 30 days on them, mostly last year. And no issues(except I don't like how the toe lock mechanism works. It isn't positive enough. Often comes unlocked when I'm ripping skins)

I've never had that problem but the toe lever hump is now slickly integrated on the new 170.
Bummer of that and the new 150 is that ski crampon clip is no longer compatible with the old Plum clips which were exactly identical to Dynafit SSL and LTR. And once again Plum is charging a lot for the clips.