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Thread: Playful Charger

  1. #26
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    Great progress in this thread. I'm stoked to see this quest and motivation.

    Hey OP. Dude, at this point, it's not about you asking us more. It's about you telling us more about yourself. Help us help you.
    ..
    Last edited by Vitamin I; 11-20-2015 at 11:38 PM.
    - TRADE your heavy PROTESTS for my lightweight version at this thread

    "My biggest goal in life has always been to pursue passion and to make dreams a reality. I love my daughter, but if I had to quit my passions for her, then I would be setting the wrong example for her, and I would not be myself anymore. " -Shane

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  2. #27
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    Nov 2008
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    901
    I just snagged a deal on a pair of 193 Helldorado's.

    Hoping it's the right size for me at 6' - 200lbs.

    I wanted a damp but fun and not so stiff ski for skiing resort pow bell to bell. Just a little concerned about taking these in tight spaces.

  3. #28
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    Oct 2009
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    sack up son! you got dis!

  4. #29
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    Dec 2011
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    494
    What about the GPO? I found it pretty playful for such a chargy ski. Maybe not in the league of a Gunsmoke but you can sure throw some tricks on it. Fully customizable option is fun as well as someone already stated.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    9
    Quote Originally Posted by 123ski View Post
    Thanks for the input.

    I think the Moment Bibby Pro that I owned as the closest I've been to loving a ski for this type of use, and I may indeed go back to it. The thing that worries me about the Automatic are quotes like this from Blister:

    “For those of you who think that the Bibby Pro might be more ski than you want or need, that it might be too much work or too stiff, the 186 or 193 Automatic deserve a very serious look."

    If anything, the Bibby was just slightly too soft..so I'd hate to move to an even lesser ski.

    I'll give the Gunsmoke and Peacemaker another look.
    I have some 193 auto 117's and they are definitely softer than the Bibby Pro. That said, the skis do belong in the "charger" category for some people, just depends how aggressive you actually are.

  6. #31
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    Aug 2005
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    I have had Bibby Pro's and have Praxis GPO's now. I think they would be worth a look from you. They charge much better than Bibby's, but I am just as comfortable spinning and flipping on them. The one caveat, the tail isn't a true twin, but I can land switch in soft snow on them (but it is harder than on the Bibby).

    I also have a pair of Praxis MVP's that are an awesome mix of playful and charger. I got these in a 183 with the plan to just use them to jib and screw around on, but I have been pleasantly surprised how well they handle speed through cop snow. I think these in a 187 or 191 would be an awesome 2 day after a storm ski. I would have no qualms about hitting hanging bowl on these.

    Plus, Praxis is having it's pre-season sale!
    Thanks Shane

  7. #32
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    Nov 2008
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    901
    I'm selling my mint Helldorado's if anyone wants to give them a try.

    Surprising soft and playful but super damp and bulldozes any rough snow.

  8. #33
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    Oct 2010
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    entrapped
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    Entire thread devoted to devastators...have a read there.

    They may very well fit the bill for you. Call 4frnt in slc to demo. About as chargeful as a playful ski might get (if that's possible.) Still hookup enough on hardpack but really excel in chopped up and crud driven with centered stance. Just mounted up new 2017s last night. Vibeveil technology supposed to make them even more stable on hardpack.
    No matter where you go, there you are. - BB

  9. #34
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    Nov 2016
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    Bump for the oxymoron we all love. I thought I had my heart set on a billy goat but after the last weekend on MVPs, I was really craving something more playful and jibby and questioning if the billy goat will fulfill that. The unicorn I'm looking to find: looking for a ski to for the fat end of a 2-ski quiver, playful ski that likes to go fast (playful charger), does well in trees, stable platform for drops, mows through chop. Yes I am aware I'm asking for a unicorn so maybe the on3p unicorn graphic will solve everything?

    Skis in the running from what I've gathered on the interweb:
    Billy goat - will do great as a pow ski, great in the trees, charges well, mows through chop, maybe not as jibby/playful

    Kartel/Jeffery 116 - very jib-oriented, playful, charges well, probably not as good of a pow ski as the billy goat, doesn't do as well in the trees as the billy goat

    Bibby/wildcat - charges well, does well in chop, good pow ski, bonus: does pretty good on groomers

    chipotle banana - everything you love about the wildcat, but bigger

    Questions: How playful is the billy goat? How does the Kartel/Jeffery do in trees? How do the moment skis listed do in trees and chop? If I'm looking for a ski to encourage a playful ski style, what ski fits that?

  10. #35
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    Dec 2007
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    Bibby does well in chop. I'm sure wildcat is similar, but it maybe lost a little stability with the recent weight reductions.

    I'm looking for a ski to replace my old bibby's, mostly because they're pretty tired. Criteria is similar to yours. Honestly, the rossi black ops is currently at the top of my list.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    3,189

    Playful Charger

    If looking at ON3P and I have had 3 diff versions of the Billygoat and currently on a 193 SG with standard flex... I also own 191 116 Kartels and from what you are asking I would go Kartel... My Kartels float as well as my SGs and kill it in the trees (prefer them more then any of my Billy’s in trees)... They perform better on trail, but to no surprise are not a crud killer... They are no slouch but just doesn’t have the crud crushing characteristics which makes it such a fun slashy ski...

    I should add I bought 192 Rustler 11s and so far absolutely love them... They def can get after it but are a breeze to ski...


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    Last edited by Undertow; 03-02-2020 at 10:43 AM.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    PNW
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    459
    Jeffery 116 or Wildcat. Though the Chipotle Banana would be an interesting option. If I was getting a Wildcat for a pow ski again I’d for sure size up to 190. Probably 186 in the Jeffery if you’re still wanting playful and quick in trees. It’s probably about at big as the 190 Wildcat. Being fairly progressively mounted they should all be quick in the trees. The 184 Bibbys are great in trees and handle chop well as long as it’s not DEEP HEAVY chop where I didn’t love the short front end and progressive mount.

  13. #38
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    Feb 2015
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    MA
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    Playful Charger

    Chipotle banana is an awesome compliment to the MVP imo, I own both. I mounted my CBs -1 from rec putting them around -6cm from center, giving them the same mount point as my MVPs.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    I think you have to define what you mean by playful. Do you mean playful as in loose, or playful as in jibby? If as in loose - well, RES-skis got that covered. Point them in the direction of soft snow and prepared to be amazed. If as in jibby i want to pop and/or spin everything - kartel/jeffreys or wildcats are a sure bet. I would opt for the ON3P as I prefer both their build, ride feel and graphics - but either are well made and well designed skis.

    I have a pair of BGs in 184s and custom stiffer kartel116s in 181. The only scenarios where I would opt for the latter is if I am going to ride stuff involving ice or icy groomers. BGs and C&Ds are amazing skis, while I have taken much longer to figure out the k116s (to be fair - I should probably just have bought them in their stock configuration).

    I have yet to ski Wildcats, but from the two days or so that I have on Wildcat108s understanding the playful charger moniker remain abit elusive to me. I find the front ends to be a bit short and soft to really charge (meaning crush through variable), and the skis are a bit too light to be super stable in variable. Sure, they got a high top end speed, but the more challenging the snow the more you need be a dynamic rider with on point balance (Blister sums the 108s up well imho). I find that ON3P mutes things a bit more, which I prefer as I am not Candide. Again, my time on Moments has been limited and I am used to more directional skis - so it is probably me for the most part and not the skis.

    And I mirror Undertow - R11s are amazing skis that does a lot of things well. I really, really enjoy my 180s. In fact, it would be my one ski quiver. I would not call them especially jibby, but they do a lot of things really well, are very easy to controll, are predictable and deal with both speed and changing conditions super well. The 188 and 192 are bit wider and a fair bit stiffer though, so they probably ski differently than my shorter/softer skis.

    And no, you are not looking for a unicorn. You "just" need to understand what you like in a ski and get a pair that compliments how you like to ski in the type of snow you usually ski in. I would focus on what where you like the mount point of a ski to be, and then take if from there.

  15. #40
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    Jan 2009
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    130
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    ... Honestly, the rossi black ops is currently at the top of my list.
    Shameless plug. I just threw feelers out for my pair of these last night since my idea of playful is laying down arcs.

    Black Ops are great at going sideways and pivoting in chop, they don't get floppy at speed, and they can actually carve turns, albeit with a centered stance. I can see why they've got a following.
    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=333949

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  16. #41
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    Nov 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    I think you have to define what you mean by playful. Do you mean playful as in loose, or playful as in jibby? If as in loose - well, RES-skis got that covered. Point them in the direction of soft snow and prepared to be amazed. If as in jibby i want to pop and/or spin everything - kartel/jeffreys or wildcats are a sure bet. I would opt for the ON3P as I prefer both their build, ride feel and graphics - but either are well made and well designed skis.

    I have a pair of BGs in 184s and custom stiffer kartel116s in 181. The only scenarios where I would opt for the latter is if I am going to ride stuff involving ice or icy groomers. BGs and C&Ds are amazing skis, while I have taken much longer to figure out the k116s (to be fair - I should probably just have bought them in their stock configuration).

    I have yet to ski Wildcats, but from the two days or so that I have on Wildcat108s understanding the playful charger moniker remain abit elusive to me. I find the front ends to be a bit short and soft to really charge (meaning crush through variable), and the skis are a bit too light to be super stable in variable. Sure, they got a high top end speed, but the more challenging the snow the more you need be a dynamic rider with on point balance (Blister sums the 108s up well imho). I find that ON3P mutes things a bit more, which I prefer as I am not Candide. Again, my time on Moments has been limited and I am used to more directional skis - so it is probably me for the most part and not the skis.

    And I mirror Undertow - R11s are amazing skis that does a lot of things well. I really, really enjoy my 180s. In fact, it would be my one ski quiver. I would not call them especially jibby, but they do a lot of things really well, are very easy to controll, are predictable and deal with both speed and changing conditions super well. The 188 and 192 are bit wider and a fair bit stiffer though, so they probably ski differently than my shorter/softer skis.

    And no, you are not looking for a unicorn. You "just" need to understand what you like in a ski and get a pair that compliments how you like to ski in the type of snow you usually ski in. I would focus on what where you like the mount point of a ski to be, and then take if from there.
    Thanks for the in depth response. I've read a few reviews similar to yours saying the wildcat skis short which concerns me at 210, 6'3 and they're longest length is a 190. Like you mentioned, my other concern is the lightweight build of the ski. I wont be in PNW snow but I like skis with more weight to them.

    How would I define playful? Hmm. Something that makes you want to hit every little drop and kicker and slash around. My MVP replaced a Salomon Rocker2 108. While I love the confidence the MVP has given me in skiing sketch terrain, I do notice that my skiing style is less playful. I'm not slashing and tree-tapping like I was on the rocker2 108. I'm hoping this ski will be more of that. I'm not much of a spinner/flipper but I may give it another go. I don't venture in the park but I love 20-25' drops or larger off piste kickers and small little jibs all over the mountain. I spend 90% of the time off piste. Groomers are just a way to get to lift .

    Quote Originally Posted by Undertow View Post
    If looking at ON3P and I have had 3 diff versions of the Billygoat and currently on a 193 SG with standard flex... I also own 191 116 Kartels and from what you are asking I would go Kartel... My Kartels float as well as my SGs and kill it in the trees (prefer them more then any of my Billy’s in trees)... They perform better on trail, but to no surprise are not a crud killer... They are no slouch but just doesn’t have the crud crushing characteristics which makes it such a fun slashy ski...

    I should add I bought 192 Rustler 11s and so far absolutely love them... They def can get after it but are a breeze to ski...


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    Wow, this is totally selling me on the Kartel. Great to hear that they're float well and do well in the trees, and slashy skis are so fun. I can compromise on the chop, I'm just not a fan of all the lightweightness many ski companies seem to be moving towards.

  17. #42
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    Feb 2013
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    PNW
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    You sound like a perfect candidate for a Jeffery/Kartel if you're cool with the mount point (something like -4 to -5 from center). They should provide all the poppy playful tree tapping goodness you're looking for. Being from ON3P they'll have good soft chop performance and be heavy and damp enough to hold up to crud.

    Edit to say at your size I'd think the 191 jeffery would be the way to go but call/email ON3P and see what they think. The Woodsman would slide you a bit closer to the charger size of the playful charger spectrum but might be worth a look too.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    Thanks for the in depth response. I've read a few reviews similar to yours saying the wildcat skis short which concerns me at 210, 6'3 and they're longest length is a 190. Like you mentioned, my other concern is the lightweight build of the ski. I wont be in PNW snow but I like skis with more weight to them.

    How would I define playful? Hmm. Something that makes you want to hit every little drop and kicker and slash around. My MVP replaced a Salomon Rocker2 108. While I love the confidence the MVP has given me in skiing sketch terrain, I do notice that my skiing style is less playful. I'm not slashing and tree-tapping like I was on the rocker2 108. I'm hoping this ski will be more of that. I'm not much of a spinner/flipper but I may give it another go. I don't venture in the park but I love 20-25' drops or larger off piste kickers and small little jibs all over the mountain. I spend 90% of the time off piste. Groomers are just a way to get to lift .



    Wow, this is totally selling me on the Kartel. Great to hear that they're float well and do well in the trees, and slashy skis are so fun. I can compromise on the chop, I'm just not a fan of all the lightweightness many ski companies seem to be moving towards.
    They handle chop fine and as well as most skis it just does not have the crushing abilities like the Goat has...

    Also, I am 6’4” and run between 205 and 210 lbs and have skied the Kartel on 12”+ days and it was surfy and floated me with ease... And I cannot describe what a dream the 116 Kartel is in trees... And if I remember correctly Iggy in the ON3P thread states that pretty much everyone at the factory are rocking the 108 and 116 Kartel as a 2 ski quiver...


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  19. #44
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    Black crows anima?

  20. #45
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    Whitedot Ragnarok CarbonLite as reviewed last year on Blister.

  21. #46
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    I'd demo the Dynastar M-free 108 & 118...

  22. #47
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    Wasatch
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    Playful charger is a bit of an oxymoron. But I bought QST118 on a whim to meet this need. It’s been good, more playful than charger. I would say my Corvus is also this way and it shined in two feet of pow on the memorial weekend last year in mineral basin


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  23. #48
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    Gunsmoke

  24. #49
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    My Noctas are surprisingly charge-y where I expected them to be more playful. I haven’t had opportunity to test them in chop though.


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  25. #50
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    .
    Last edited by brundo; 03-25-2020 at 09:04 AM.

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