How stupid is it to ski/freeski/coach in race boots?

**Dexter Rutecki** · 11-07-2015, 03:39 PM

I'm still in race boots simply because I've pretty much never considered anything else (currently a 5+ year old pair of Heads that I'll need new liners for if I don't replace them entirely). However, with the fact that I rarely actually race anymore (but I do jump in courses alongside our kids on a daily basis) and spend a fair amount of time standing there watching kids train/race (sometimes in extremely cold temps) I'm finally considering ditching the race boots. Part of the reason I never seriously considered other boots in the past is I didn't want any slop in my boots (even with race boots I struggled to get a very tight fit) and the flex on other boots was usually too low.

Question is how far away from a race boot would I want to go? I saw Scarpa has a boot that's rated at a 120 flex or something like that--is it too big a jump to go from a Head race boot to a Scarpa? I like the idea of being comfortable and not having my toes turn to blocks of ice any day the temp is below 15 (which sucks, in case you're wondering). That said, I will say I'm happy with the performance of my current boots, so...

**::: :::** · 11-07-2015, 03:52 PM

I suspect you will never be happy SKIING in anything else

But, yeah, your feet will be way happier in a less constricting boot, not to mention a shitton warmer

**stevesmith7** · 11-07-2015, 04:17 PM

Grab a pair of Intuition Pro Tongues for those Heads. Feet will be a lot warmer and the response is great. Life's too short to ski in unresponsive boots.

**Shredhead** · 11-07-2015, 04:52 PM

I know a bunch that coach in AT boots.

**ScrewYou** · 11-07-2015, 04:59 PM

For me at least, there is a negative relationship between comfort and performance in ski boots. As comfort increases, (usually) performance decreases, and vice versa.

Go try on some boots too see if you can find something thats performance orientated, but more comfortable.

MTN Labs and atomic wardens might do the trick, so long as the boots fit. But thats a $1000 dollar investment... there are much cheaper alternatives

**mntlion** · 11-07-2015, 05:16 PM

1) add intuitions and/or boot heaters to what you have ($200 each) Then you have warm, AND skiable.

2) narrow stiff boots SKI really well. other options will not

3) bigger/ wider /softer / walking boots are really nice to STAND AROUND in, not that skiable, but are survivable.

**auvgeek** · 11-07-2015, 07:06 PM

My advice:

Buy another plug (Head, Lange, Dalbello, etc) for when you're skiing. Toss a ZipFit in it when the stock liner wears out. If you have a seriously tight fit, any Intuition will be less responsive and take up more volume (making your feet colder) than the stock liner or ZipFit.

Buy a Cochise Pro 130 (or similar) and toss in an Intuition for when you're standing/walking around. I suspect the 120-flex Scarpa you mentioned is the Freedom, which has a huge heel pocket. Doubt it'll be your style. The Cochise Pro 130 is about the narrowest and stiffest AT boot you can find. The new Lange XT LV might work as well.

**RShea** · 11-07-2015, 07:29 PM

There are a few boots out there in 120 to 130 flex that would probably be more comfortable than a race stock plug boot. Dalbello has the Scorpion SF in a traditional style boot, also the Krypton 2 is available in 110, 120 and 130 flex in the Pro model. Of course your foot may not be right for the Dalbello fit. But there are other Advanced skier boots that are not in the plug race boot 150 flex category of cold and uncomfortable but fit like a glove once you do all the punching and grinding work usually required to ski narrow last plug race boots.

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 11-07-2015, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

My advice:

Buy another plug (Head, Lange, Dalbello, etc) for when you're skiing. Toss a ZipFit in it when the stock liner wears out. If you have a seriously tight fit, any Intuition will be less responsive and take up more volume (making your feet colder) than the stock liner or ZipFit.

Buy a Cochise Pro 130 (or similar) and toss in an Intuition for when you're standing/walking around. I suspect the 120-flex Scarpa you mentioned is the Freedom, which has a huge heel pocket. Doubt it'll be your style. The Cochise Pro 130 is about the narrowest and stiffest AT boot you can find. The new Lange XT LV might work as well.

That sounds spot on.

**fcetoface** · 11-07-2015, 08:08 PM

Zipfit with the Salomon Quest Max 120 BC....just to throw another option out there!!

**adrenalated** · 11-07-2015, 08:25 PM

I'm with auvgeek. Buy a race boot for the days when you're skiing more than standing/walking, and a stiffer AT boot when you're doing more standing/walking than skiing. I wouldn't immediately discount any of them - Technica Cochise 130, Scarpa Freedom RS, Lange XT, K2 Pinnacle, Dalbello Lupo, BD Factor MX, Salomon Quest Max or Quest Pro 130, etc. Whatever fits your foot the best. All of these come with DIN compatible soles so you can use your alpine bindings. Just having the ability to unlock the cuff and stand up straight(ish) will do wonders for the comfort of them.

**TCNROMPER** · 11-07-2015, 09:30 PM

I'd say if they fit, get in a pair of lange RX130's and call it good…but I'd stick with the 97 "low volume" (I guess it's all relative but you would probably find the 100 a little too wide since you are coming from a plug)

**Dexter Rutecki** · 11-08-2015, 12:57 AM

Problem with two different boots is BSL would need to match, which I don't think I can count on (but I haven't looked at BSL's for other options yet).

**gregL** · 11-08-2015, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Problem with two different boots is BSL would need to match, which I don't think I can count on (but I haven't looked at BSL's for other options yet).

Quiver of RS 130 97mm and Pinnacle 130 100mm worked for me. Gives you two levels of performance/comfort and BSL's are exactly the same.

**cat in january** · 11-08-2015, 01:32 AM

If you do stay with your Head boots (my vote as why fix what isn't broken) make sure you go with the thin intuition liner designed for race boots.

**lordf** · 11-08-2015, 03:52 AM

I had the same issue, I found most modern boots too I went for the atomic tracker 130. It's an actual 130 even with a walk mode and a 98mm last.

Will be getting some plugs for piste weeks, probably readster 150 lifteds or head raptors.

**Driver** · 11-08-2015, 02:52 PM

I skied technica and Lange plug 130s for years and even skinned in them a bit. I migrated to 3 peice boots - Dabello kr2 pro - a few years ago, partly to gain comfort. The performance with stiff to tongue is close to the old langes but a lot more comfortable and user friendly for trucking around with kids. Also the new langes are soft and super upright so it was that or ski head race shells. I also have Vulcans for bc which is an option but coming from race shells and skiing inbounds you will notice a drop off there (though less than you'd ever expect from an At boot). Not a din sole though.

**neufox47** · 11-08-2015, 10:31 PM

Two pairs of boots. Race boots and AT&T boots that are comfy.

**Nordic Giant** · 11-09-2015, 02:19 AM

AT&T ??

**Dexter Rutecki** · 11-09-2015, 08:27 AM

He meant Time Warner.

**XXX-er** · 11-09-2015, 02:01 PM

The local head coach of the ski team was rocking NTN telemark boots for the longest time ... I don't think it matters that much

**wasatchback** · 11-09-2015, 02:40 PM

Just get boots for standing on the hill and screwing around and then keep the race boots for ripping. Great thing about walk mode boots is you can release the cuff and stand em upright when you're just standing on the hill... Your back will thank you!!

Plus it's so much easier to drive the van in AT boots anyways.

I tour in Cochise and ski them on pow days but keep the race boots for firmer conditions and groomer skiing. My feet are so much warmer in the Cochise and they ski pretty darn well especially in soft snow. My feet are a little too narrow to ski them all the time.

**adrenalated** · 11-09-2015, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Problem with two different boots is BSL would need to match, which I don't think I can count on (but I haven't looked at BSL's for other options yet).

Why? Most bindings take 2 minutes and a couple turns of a screwdriver and you're good to go.

**kat tracks** · 11-09-2015, 03:48 PM

Coached freestyle - bumps and trees at Sugarbush in Lang RS 110 flex. Wonder how I would have skied if I had known ; )
Seriously though, the stiffies helped me drive the ski more aggressively in the woods and kept me more stable in the bumps. I think the flat camber (and when it came into style, reverse camber) of a ski was more important in both situations.