Kids 20" Mountain Bikes

[criscam]

I think Santa's gonna bring my 5.5 year old a new bike this xmas and he's about ready for a 20"-er. Saw an older thread covering this a little (16" and 20" rides) but wanted to hear from parents on what they got their kids and why. I'm thinking some front suspension is in order (I know this can be a hot debate) but we've been doing a fair amount of shuttling and he's complained about his hands being sore on some longer rides. also trying to keep it as light as possible.
I'd prob get a spawn savage 2.0 if money wasn't an issue but would like to try and keep it in the $400 range if possible.
looks like a lot of the major brands have some 20" offering in that price range. been looking at the scott scale jr 20 (http://teamcyclingandfitness.com/pro...0-213315-1.htm) as an option. I know islabikes are popular and not ruling them out despite them not having suspension. his younger brother will inherit whatever he gets when he moves up so that def helps.
so who has experience w/ what?

[gravitylover]

The only thing suspension does on a 20" is add weight. The forks that are available really don't have enough "travel" or any movement of any sort actually to justify the weight penalty. A fat(ish) tire at low pressure will be more advantageous but there aren't the right tire choices to make that a valid option. Maybe one of the new kids fat bikes at 4-5psi would be something to consider, at least there is a versatility to them that doesn't happen with regular little guys mt bikes.

[wilcox510]

I agree with gravity regarding suspension for a 20" bike - for that reason I bought my son an Islabikes Beinn 20. It comes with slightly narrow/wimpy tires, I think they can swap them out to wider ones or I just did it after the fact. Its so much lighter than every other 20" bike Ive seen its amazing. Quality parts. Highly recommended. Now he is outgrowing it, I'll keep it around for his younger sister, but now I'm trying to decide if suspension is worth it for a 24" bike...

[Dantheman]

I’ve spent way too much time geeking out on 20” bikes already considering Sam probably won’t be ready for one until late next year, so here’s my thoughts:

For $400, Trek Superfly 20 is decent. 19 lbs and generally well spec’ed, but no suspension fork and the drivetrain is 6-speed with a 14-28 cassette. I’m not sure if you can put a wider-range cassette on the stock hub. If you can’t, I’d personally consider going SS with a Cleary Owl, and maybe see if Jeff would do a custom build with the wide riser bars and an M30 hub instead of the ISO hub. Even with the custom bits you’d probably still be under or close to $400 since they normally sell for $335. The MTBR geeks also seem to agree that the stock Superfly cranks are too long, so consider that you might need to replace those when comparing costs. The other rigid option is a Savage 1.0, which are on sale for $510 right now. That extra $100 buys you a lot over the Trek. You could always put a suspension fork on it later to spread out the cost.

If the Savage 2.0 is too much to spend, check out the Commencal Meta HT 20. Very similar parts spec and weight compared to the Savage 2 for $150 less at current prices. Good chance this will be Sam’s 20” bike. We ran into Tuadog at Trailside a couple weekends back and he had bought one for Trevor and seemed pretty happy with it. I wouldn’t go any lower-end for a HT. The cheaper forks are just anchors that don’t work.

[klauss]

Liking that Savage 1.0 and the Commencal Meta. Hmmm. Probably still enough life left in the ol chap's current hotrock 16er. Are these Canada makes always on sale?

Hard to get weights on the 20 inch offerings from cannondale/kona/redline/etc.

[bagtagley]

Think I'm gonna pull the trigger on a 16 and 20" Superfly. I looked at a couple Schwinns and was surprised to see that they weren't total boat anchors. But, the Superfly is just crazy light.

My wife is fighting me on the nicer bike front. My 8 YO daughter can't ride a bike yet - not for lack of trying on my part, they both prefer they're scooters. To me, that's because her current bike is a crazy heavy pile of shit. They boy is pretty solid on the balance bike, but won't ride it anymore because it doesn't have pedals.

This is way beyond our budget, though. Am I an idiot for spending this kind of money on bikes for kids that can't currently ride bikes? The 20 will last several years, since the dude can ride it when he's bigger.

[Canada1]

Don't bust the bank. Find a bike swap. My kids have nicer bikes than I ever had and they are comparable to new bike pricing at Walmart. Good luck

[Dantheman]

My 8 YO daughter can't ride a bike yet - not for lack of trying on my part, they both prefer they're scooters. To me, that's because her current bike is a crazy heavy pile of shit.

Damn near a certainty.

While the weight is great, I think the 6sp 14-28 drivetrain on the SF20 is totally stupid. I see no reason to add the extra cost and complexity of a shifter and RD to only get 100% gear range, especially for a kid who can't even ride a bike yet. Also, according to some MTBR geeks the cranks are 152mm which is way too long. I'd get a Cleary Owl, and email them before hand to see if they can ship it with the riser bars they have now (much better than the sweep-less flat bars I think they normally ship with). You'll get bike that weighs the same as the SF20, a simple SS drivetrain, and proper length cranks (127 mm), all for $75 less than the SF20. Plus, Jeff Cleary just seems like a good guy who is worth supporting.

If gears are a must, get an Islabikes Beinn 20 (http://www.islabikes.com/product/bik...0-large-age-6/). But, gears seem totally overkill for a kid who can't even ride yet.

I wouldn't get the SF16. For the exact same price you could get a Cleary Hedgehog (again with the riser bars if possible) that will be lighter and has F/R V-brakes instead of a heavy, draggy POS coaster brake. For a little more you could get a Spawn Banshee. The Banshee is much cheaper and easier to change the gearing than the Cleary thanks to an M30 hub and cranks with a 64 BCD spider. Changing the gearing on the Cleary is a PITA due to their rear hub and crank choices, but otherwise it's a fantastic bike. I have a pair of 102 mm cranks with a fixed 32t chainring that I would give you for free if you get a Hedgehog and need a taller gear down the road. They're steel and a bit heavy, but not terribly so.

Am I an idiot for spending this kind of money on bikes for kids that can't currently ride bikes?

Not if it turns them from non-riders into riders. Resale is really good on quality kid's bikes too.

[Dantheman]

Don't bust the bank. Find a bike swap. My kids have nicer bikes than I ever had and they are comparable to new bike pricing at Walmart. Good luck

Never hurts to look, but the bike swap scene in Park City probably isn't comparable to bagtagely's hood.

[whitekingsalmon]

Get him a 20 in bmx and get him into racing....

[bagtagley]

There's a decent swap here, but it's not until later in the summer. Need to get it here in time for Christmas, so my hands are kind of tied. I'm not that sentimental, but the wife isn't budging.

There isn't really any flat mountain biking here. I know I'll be towing the dude, but she's strong enough to climb mellower stuff. I don't want gears? I was just thinking I could have her ignore the shifter at first?

[Dantheman]

Just to generally add to the thread, if anyone is looking at nicer 20" hardtails you should check out the Rocky Mountain Vertex 20. I've only e-ridden it so far, but on paper I really like it. Comes spec'ed with a Spinner air fork, Shimano hydro discs and a 2-speed SRAM Automatix hub for $750 MSRP which is a pretty solid balance between price and performance. That' pretty much equivalent to the build on the Spawn Savage 2.0 for $200 less. The auto hub on a kid's bike is brilliant since it seems like proper shifting is not the easiest concept for most 6-8 year-olds to grasp. All they have to do is ride, and we don't have to worry about keeping their RD in tune and/or them destroying it. The range could be better since it's only 136%, but that's still better than the 14-28 cassettes you see on all the 6/7-speed setups.

[bagtagley]

I have a pair of 102 mm cranks with a fixed 32t chainring that I would give you for free if you get a Hedgehog and need a taller gear down the road. They're steel and a bit heavy, but not terribly so.

Hedgehog is ordered, so I might take you up on that. Not sure about the Owl, though. I at least want the option to easily add gears if I go gearless. Flat doesn't exist here, at least not nearby. Seems like gears will, at the least, be nice down the road?

They're giving me a deal on the Trek, and I can put shorter cranks on it, and I can go and buy it today. It also looked pretty pimp to me. Am I going to regret the Trek?

[Dantheman]

Hedgehog is ordered, so I might take you up on that.

Email me your address and I'll send them. I need to pay it forward for some parts rludes025 gifted me earlier this year and I have no use for them anyway.

Am I going to regret the Trek?

Nah man, it'll be great. Now that I know they're giving you a deal and you need to have it before Christmas that changes things. She'll be fine, just find a gear she likes and tell her not to touch the shifter.

Seems like gears will, at the least, be nice down the road?

My observation to date is that kids young enough to ride 20" wheels won't pedal uphill for extended periods of time no matter how low the bike is geared, and they have trouble figuring out shifting in general. Thus, you're generally better off keeping their drivetrain dead simple and just teaching them to stand up and hammer.

Think of it this way--I'm guessing you're running an 11-34 or 11-36 cassette on your bike, so >300% range. Now go ride while only using 1/3 of that range and tell me it doesn't seem preferable to just ditch all that extra crap and go SS. Shimano does make a cheap extended-range 6sp cassette (14-34). It's a big jump up to the 34t cog, but might be worth throwing on there down the road if she's figured out shifting.

http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-6-Spee.../dp/B00FNY3UXW

[bagtagley]

I've still got time to get the Owl. How important have you found gears to be? I know I pushed heavy bikes all over the place as a kid, but we never really did trails.

[Catch22]

My thoughts after going through this the past few years is get a solid used 20", plan on them using it for a couple years, then get them on a really good 24" when they are tall enough. 20s are a really tough bike to really get right. Weight is always an issue, the 20s don't roll over anything that is not smooth without bucking the kids all over the place, tire selection is pretty terrible, and geometry is seriously wonky. For entertainment purposes, take a common 20" geo chart and stretch those measurements out to a ratio in line with a 26" or 27.5 trail bike. Bottom line is to just get them on something decent and save some weight where you can. Unless you can drop a bunch of money on a fork like that MRP 20" I just don't think there is any point to the weight suspension will add to the front end. Better to build a crazy light wheelset if anything and just let them ride and have fun for a year or two until they can get on one of the new line of rad 24s that are out there. Your timing is likely going to be perfect for the used market on those as kids start growing out of them in 2-3 years.

[Dantheman]

I've still got time to get the Owl. How important have you found gears to be? I know I pushed heavy bikes all over the place as a kid, but we never really did trails.

Sam is still on his SS Hedgehog, so my opinions are based off of: 1) Watching the kids on 20" bikes at Trailside, all of whom are pushing their bikes to the top; and 2) My hypothetical above. I'm really not sure I would bother with gears for myself if you took away more than 2/3's of my range.

Either one is going to be a huge improvement for her. If you think she'll eventually use the gears and benefit from them go for it. Color should factor into your calculus too, kids are crazy when it comes to shit like that and the candyapple red the SF20 comes in is girlier than any of the colors you can get the Owl in.

[Dantheman]

the 20s don't roll over anything that is not smooth without bucking the kids all over the place

Better than 16s though!

tire selection is pretty terrible

See above

and geometry is seriously wonky. For entertainment purposes, take a common 20" geo chart and stretch those measurements out to a ratio in line with a 26" or 27.5 trail bike.

Yeah, early 2000s XC race geo is the norm for some reason. The geo on Flow's bikes seems pretty solid, but $1,000 for a hardtail is a tough pill to swallow. If I'm going to spend north of four figures I might as well get Norco's awesome new 20" FS for $1,500.

Bottom line is to just get them on something decent and save some weight where you can. Unless you can drop a bunch of money on a fork like that MRP 20" I just don't think there is any point to the weight suspension will add to the front end. Better to build a crazy light wheelset if anything and just let them ride and have fun for a year or two

Spinner's air-sprung 20" fork seems pretty solid. Agreed otherwise though, most 20" suspension forks are utter garbage.

For me, the problem with "just let them ride and have fun for a year or two" is that my son is a peanut. He'll probably ride his Hedgehog until he's 7 (turns 6 next month and doesn't look too big for the bike at all), and I'll be shocked if rides a 20" for less than 3 years. He's also turned into quite the little ripper and would benefit from some squish already.

[gravitylover]

Go fat, there are a bunch of 20" fat options now. Rolls over stuff easily and you can run the air pressure super low so he doesn't get jacked around. My girls are tiny too, rode their 20's until after they turned 11 so we fought that battle the same way you are.

[bagtagley]

Catch, I hear you, but bikes are happening one way or another. I'm just trying to prevent another boat anchor purchase. The Grandfolks want to buy bikes, the kids don't have to know I picked up the slack.

She prefers the blue of the Cleary and doesn't know shit about gears, but it still seems limiting not going with gears. She's pretty mechanically inclined, and acts like a teenager, so in my mind gears should be easy to figure out. I'm sure that's not the case, though.

GL, what would you suggest that I can get by Xmas?

[Dantheman]

She's pretty mechanically inclined, and acts like a teenager, so in my mind gears should be easy to figure out. I'm sure that's not the case, though.

I'd go with your gut since none of us know her. Every kid is different and no doubt some will pick up shifting easily.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I was talking to phatphreeheeler just over a week ago and he said his son is struggling with it after several months. That also factored into my previous suggestions.

Edit: Too bad you can't get the Isla in time, that's probably the perfect bike for her. 2 lbs lighter than the SF20 and a wide range 7sp cassette.

[Catch22]

Catch, I hear you, but bikes are happening one way or another. I'm just trying to prevent another boat anchor purchase. The Grandfolks want to buy bikes, the kids don't have to know I picked up the slack.

She prefers the blue of the Cleary and doesn't know shit about gears, but it still seems limiting not going with gears. She's pretty mechanically inclined, and acts like a teenager, so in my mind gears should be easy to figure out. I'm sure that's not the case, though.

GL, what would you suggest that I can get by Xmas?

Absolutely, it all depends on budget and size and attitude/ability of the kid dictate a lot. I got a free 20 Raleigh from a friend, rebuilt wheels with new hubs, put on my old 9 speed drivetrain, bought new cranks, and added light leftover cockpit stuff and it worked well for the 1.5 years she was on it. Even with all that, the bike still chatters her all over the place and I'm eager to get her off of it. The Cleary wasn't available when we were looking for 20s or I would have given those a good look for sure. Instead we did the best we could with the cheap option and I've now suckered myself into getting her a Ripcord for her birthday next month. Hopefully we get a good 3-4 years of good use out of that one and it holds some resale value.

[gravitylover]

Catch, I hear you, but bikes are happening one way or another. I'm just trying to prevent another boat anchor purchase. The Grandfolks want to buy bikes, the kids don't have to know I picked up the slack.

She prefers the blue of the Cleary and doesn't know shit about gears, but it still seems limiting not going with gears. She's pretty mechanically inclined, and acts like a teenager, so in my mind gears should be easy to figure out. I'm sure that's not the case, though.

GL, what would you suggest that I can get by Xmas?

My daughters were far from mechanically inclined but they were excited to do it so they picked it up pretty quickly. For the most part they didn't shift often anyway so they used it when they needed it, made some mistakes sure but, it wasn't too painful.

I'm not working at that shop in nyc anymore but they had a Specialized kids (boys blue/orange) 20" fatty that they wanted to get rid of pretty badly. They don't get it I have no idea what is available local to you and timing is probably tight to get anything to you by Thursday but a man on a mission...

[bagtagley]

I actually really like the fat bike idea for kids. I'm out of time, though. I might keep an eye on one of the cheaper options and hope for a really good sale.

I ended up getting the Owl for the girl. She put an end to my hand wringing when she admitted to me that she doesn't want a red bike. I'm honestly a little excited at the prospect of tweaking it as she gets more comfortable. Thanks for the advice.

[Dantheman]

I've now suckered myself into getting her a Ripcord for her birthday next month.

Dad of the year!

I'm not working at that shop in nyc anymore but they had a Specialized kids (boys blue/orange) 20" fatty that they wanted to get rid of pretty badly.

MSRP on the Specialized 20" fatty is like $800. It also weighs 28 lbs. I have to imagine the cheaper 20" fatties are mid-30s at least. I think the plus-size 20" and 24" bikes Specialized released recently make more sense for kids than a full-on fatty with 4.0s. A 3" tire on a 20" rim is really just an appropriately scaled-down adult fatty. Too bad there is no rigid fork option, only shitty suspension forks.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/11/17/...ock-20-and-24/

I ended up getting the Owl for the girl. She put an end to my hand wringing when she admitted to me that she doesn't want a red bike.

Well, there you go. Hope she is stoked on it!