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  1. #101
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    Yeah, alias_rice asked about those a few months back. There's a lot to like about 3-speed internal hubs on kid's bikes, but the big caveat is that they don't have great range. 177% is barely half of what an 11-34 cassette provides. With the stock 32x19 gearing the ratio on the low gear is still 1.26, which isn't really all that low. Fine if you want a "lower" gear for short climbs, but if you want a true "low" gear for more extended uphill I'd pass.

    That said, the 3-speed hub is a much better choice than the 14-28 6/7-speed drivetrains you find on the SF20 and a lot of other kid's bikes still. My ghetto fabulous commuter is 3x7 with one of those cassettes and even with the triple crankset the range sucks. Can't upgrade them either since they use an old school threaded freewheel instead of a modern freehub. There's no good reason they should continue to exist.

  2. #102
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    Cool, thanks for the info. I think the 3 speed would work well for my kid, as she's a ways away from truly climbing anything big. And if her bike became a hindrance for that, well, incentive to buy a new geared 20"er! Because the Cleary will almost certainly hold its value.

    There's a Cleary dealer her in town, when we sell our Chariot and tagalong (neither used in a couple of years) I may go place an order for one of those.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    The weight is good, but the stock cranks on the SF20 are 152 mm which is way too long for this size bike. The drivetrain also sucks. I kinda dislike the SF20 on principle; Trek could make it a lot better without making it any more expensive but they refuse to do so.

    Check out the Cannondale Cujo 20 I mentioned upthread. It's 22 lbs, but with much better gearing (a real freehub, too), cushy tires, appropriate cranks, and discs. A 22 lb bike with a 30x34 low gear and proper cranks is going to climb better than a 19 lb bike with a 32x28 low gear and looong cranks. 2.6 tires will make the downs a lot more fun than 1.85's.
    Thanks for the input, Dan. Looks like no local shops carry the Cujo, but I can get a special order. I had read that comment about the cranks, but was unaware that there were issues with the freehub. I like the idea of the 2.6" to provide a little suspension.

    Seth

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethschmautz View Post
    was unaware that there were issues with the freehub
    Yeah, all those 14-28 cassettes are relics from the days of threaded freewheel cassettes. The Orbea MX20 Team/Disc are great bikes too, but availability in the US can be a problem and for some inexplicable reason they spec them with 110 BCD cranks so you can't run a chainring smaller than 34t. It's a shame because otherwise they're very well executed bikes.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Yeah, all those 14-28 cassettes are relics from the days of threaded freewheel cassettes. The Orbea MX20 Team/Disc are great bikes too, but availability in the US can be a problem and for some inexplicable reason they spec them with 110 BCD cranks so you can't run a chainring smaller than 34t. It's a shame because otherwise they're very well executed bikes.
    Also a shame that both the MX20 and Cujo have 72 degree steering angles. That’s a deal breaker for my little shredder.

  6. #106
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    I know this is the 20" thread but taking this guy (Fluid 24) home to my 8 yo today. first ride on it will be in moab in about 24 hrs. he's gonna be psyched!

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    his little brother will be jumping up to his old 20" Spawn and I think will be equally stoked.

  7. #107
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    We’re headed that way Sunday! Kids spring break starts today. Where are you going to be riding? Eldest is on a 24 ripcord, littlest in a 20 inch lil shredder


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by 81forest View Post
    Also a shame that both the MX20 and Cujo have 72 degree steering angles. That’s a deal breaker for my little shredder.
    Cannondale's site lists a 69.5* HTA for the Cujo, not ideal but better than 72*. I swear that Orbea listed a HTA of 68* when I looked at the geo maybe a year ago and that was the biggest reason I liked it. Must have been an error because they're definitely listing it as 72* now, bummer. I guess it's back to Spawn and Flow if you want a 20" with modern AM geometry.

    Supposedly Propain is going to have US distribution starting in August. No hardtail option but their full squish 20" (and 24") is really nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by criscam View Post
    I know this is the 20" thread but taking this guy (Fluid 24) home to my 8 yo today. first ride on it will be in moab in about 24 hrs. he's gonna be psyched!
    Nice!

  9. #109
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    [QUOTE=Dantheman;5314715]Cannondale's site lists a 69.5* HTA for the Cujo, not ideal but better than 72*. I swear that Orbea listed a HTA of 68* when I looked at the geo maybe a year ago and that was the biggest reason I liked it. Must have been an error because they're definitely listing it as 72* now, bummer. I guess it's back to Spawn and Flow if you want a 20" with modern AM geometry.

    Supposedly Propain is going to have US distribution starting in August. No hardtail option but their full squish 20" (and 24") is really nice.


    Awesome, will look into the propain. I’ve seen the same conflicting hta on the MX20 as you, actually ordered one through the local shop thinking it was 69.5. Quickly canceled my order after checking the website.

  10. #110
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    I tried to get a Propain frameset last year to build fir the littlest. Would be a good option for real bikes


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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Cool, thanks for the info. I think the 3 speed would work well for my kid, as she's a ways away from truly climbing anything big. And if her bike became a hindrance for that, well, incentive to buy a new geared 20"er! Because the Cleary will almost certainly hold its value.

    There's a Cleary dealer her in town, when we sell our Chariot and tagalong (neither used in a couple of years) I may go place an order for one of those.
    Assume you mean Front Range Cargo. Great shop and I think they have Woom now too.

  12. #112
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    Yeah, that's who I mean. But before that I would have said no, I knew the shop as "cruiser boutique". They have a brewery now! Think we're gonna pull the trigger on the Cleary.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  13. #113
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    Interesting bike just popped up locally on cl.. it is a Scott Scale Jr 20” full suspension with hydro disc and some really nice components (SLX, XTR) for five hundy. Anyone familiar with this bike? I can’t find any info about it but it looks kinda cool.

    I was not even considering FS for my 6 year old, but the price is right. Hmmm

    Edit: it is the Scott spark, not scale. Texting with the owner and the bike seems like a legit shred machine! For $500 it is about the coolest thing I’ve found. He is not sure of the year. Anybody have any experience with this one??
    Last edited by 81forest; 04-11-2018 at 10:31 AM. Reason: Correction

  14. #114
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    At $500 I'd go check it out for sure. What's the full build? There's several full-custom builds detailed here that came out pretty awesome: http://forums.mtbr.com/families-ridi...ld-999443.html

    Lot's of good info in that thread. The consensus seems to be that the frame is quality (albeit with XC-oriented geo), stock shock was mostly OK, stock fork and drivetrain were garbage. It was really heavy stock, but people were able to get them down to 23-24 lbs.

  15. #115
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    Thank for that thread link!! I am going to pass on the spark just based on the geo numbers (which I could not find anywhere).
    Knowing what a slack hta and short chain stays did to my own riding, I am absolutely set on starting my kids off in the same direction. Funny because I never used to care about those numbers; just cared about weight. My current bike (Canfield Riot 29) is more fun on every type of terrain, pointed up or down, than any xc bike I’ve had. And I actually climb better with it even though it’s about six pounds heavier than my last bike.

    So it’s back to looking at new bikes I guess. I think the best bike out there right now for under a $1000 is the Prevelo Zulu 3. Not surprising they are sold out and unavailable

  16. #116
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    I had a feeling the geo might be a deal breaker for you. I haven't groundtruthed that one guy's claim that the HTA is 70*, but it seems reasonable considering Scott launched that bike in 2004 and never changed it. Some of those guys used offset bushings and 24" forks to slacken it out, but there's nothing you can do about the chainstays.

    The Zulu3 is definitely a nice bike, but personally I'd spend the extra $150 to get a Spawn YJ20. Same HTA, same CS, steeper STA, slightly longer WB, ~2 lbs lighter, and better parts overall. The fork and tires alone are worth the extra $150.

  17. #117
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    Arghhh!! You’re right. That YJ is just amazing. Can’t believe I’m thinking about dropping that much on a kids bike!! Easy resell though. And it’s still cheaper than skiing.

    I also look at it like this: skill building for them right now (ages 4 and 6) is probably more important than at any other age. I will never have a better opportunity to give them exactly what they need to become as good as they can be. And this is a sport for a lifetime!
    (Sorry, just warming up for the presentation to the wife.)

    Thanks for the guidance Dantheman

  18. #118
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    Used lil shredder would be the win. 7 year old rode mega steps to baby steps this weekend. Not sure other bikes would eat that up.

    Quick spin down Dino flow in the heat. Now to the wedge overlook.




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  19. #119
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    Nice! Sam did that loop last fall. It's a pretty solid climb for a 7 y.o. Such a fun descent and definitely a nice one to have rear suspension.

    Used Lil shredders are great if you can score one. They hold resale value like a used Tacoma. I was trying to find one for a while before I got impatient and bought a Rokkusuta.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by 81forest View Post
    Arghhh!! You’re right. That YJ is just amazing. Can’t believe I’m thinking about dropping that much on a kids bike!! Easy resell though. And it’s still cheaper than skiing.

    I also look at it like this: skill building for them right now (ages 4 and 6) is probably more important than at any other age. I will never have a better opportunity to give them exactly what they need to become as good as they can be. And this is a sport for a lifetime!
    (Sorry, just warming up for the presentation to the wife.)

    Thanks for the guidance Dantheman
    I can cast my vote for the Spawn. My 6 yo has a blast on it in Moab last weekend. He’s still transitioning from cruising the streets and jumping curbs to riding trails, and the bike really seemed to help, especially on real rocky terrain. I could see him get a little nervous and just stand up and coast through the rocks. No major crashes and a kid asking if we can come back next weekend made the cost worth it.


    Though when he sent the bike ghost riding down a hill a few weeks ago to show that it could “drive itself”, I had second thoughts.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by detrusor View Post
    We’re headed that way Sunday! Kids spring break starts today. Where are you going to be riding? Eldest is on a 24 ripcord, littlest in a 20 inch lil shredder


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    Quote Originally Posted by detrusor View Post
    Used lil shredder would be the win. 7 year old rode mega steps to baby steps this weekend. Not sure other bikes would eat that up.

    Quick spin down Dino flow in the heat. Now to the wedge overlook.




    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    crap just saw this. we camped at N Klondike and rode some of the easier stuff up there since we had a couple of 6 yo's but did get on dino flow for a couple of sections. would've loved to get my 8 yo on some harder/more techy stuff since he seemed to be doing well on everything we rode. nice work getting the kiddo on mega/baby steps!

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Yeah, that's who I mean. But before that I would have said no, I knew the shop as "cruiser boutique". They have a brewery now! Think we're gonna pull the trigger on the Cleary.
    and now, the Cleary idea is on hold. They don't know when the 3 speeds will be available, nor do they know when the 3 speed conversion kits will be available, and we want a geared bike. Signed the kiddo up for a camp in late June that requires one.

    Anyone holding a 20"er that they want to sell, give me a shout.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  23. #123
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    Ended up buying the Specialized Cujo 20 as recommended. Just a few neighborhood rides so far, but the boy hasn't had any real troubles with the brakes or gears. Singletrack this week or weekend I think.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  24. #124
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    Sweet! Maybe it's the picture, but he almost looks too big for it already.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethschmautz View Post
    Ended up buying the Specialized Cujo 20 as recommended. Just a few neighborhood rides so far, but the boy hasn't had any real troubles with the brakes or gears. Singletrack this week or weekend I think.
    Look at that grin! Congrats. Agree with Dan, he looks like a tall little dude! 6yo?

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