remedy/trance/sb5c or other?

[jm2e]

For the first time in the world, a bike shop owner has discouraged someone from buying his bike so that he can go to another shop and try something different?
Hell halth frozen over.

[goldenboy]

For the first time in the world, a bike shop owner has discouraged someone from buying his bike so that he can go to another shop and try something different?
Hell halth frozen over.

My guy is a Yeti dealer, he's just sold out and Absolute demo's the SB5.

[TahoeJ]

For the first time in the world, a bike shop owner has discouraged someone from buying his bike so that he can go to another shop and try something different?
Hell halth frozen over.

That was my reaction. Someone needs to throw this guy a parade or something. ;-)

[garyfromterrace]

For someone with long legs and a short torso who likes big alpine rides, out of the brands you listed, I'd get a Remedy 29.

The whole "29ers don't work well for shorter people" only really applies to older 29ers. Modern geometry has changed things a lot, so unless you're like 5'2" or less, it's a non-issue. And for big backcountry rides, the bigger wheels are nice, and the Remedy's suspension is pretty comfortable for those sort of all-day adventures. It's a little bit more compliant over the small chattery stuff than the Trance or the Yetis. And for someone with a short torso, Trek's geometry is a bit shorter in the front end.

Good to read this. I'm 5'7 and just demoed a 29-er (a BMC trailfox TF03 SLX). for the first time last week in Moab. It made me an uphill and downhill hero. I'm sold, though I haven't ridden a 27.5.

[SchralphMacchio]

Yo GB, you ever get on that SB5c?

I took my SB-66 out for a bumpy ride on Saturday, and it made me remember how the geometry and suspension of that bike really wants to you ride just balls out. The bike gets more fun the faster you run it and harder you push into tech sections, whether up or down. It's not a playful bike at low speed nor is it the best bike for popping manuals and wheelies (a lot of that due to chainstay length, wheelbase, and head angle), but damn that bike just completely comes alive when you run it hard.

I also see that Gunniride updated his post after switching to the Fox 36 and has a different take on the bike. Well done!

[SchralphMacchio]

Somehow, having a 2cm stack height under my 40mm stem has completely transformed the handling of the bike. Cornering shines now and I'm plenty comfortable climbing too.

I raised my stack when I shortened from 80mm to 50mm stem ... it definitely makes a difference as you widen bars / shorten stem to also play with stack height. I'm glad I left extra above my stem when I had my steer tube chopped!

[WaistDeepGroomers]

New Pivot 429 Trail looks interesting for ~$3900 (after active junky cash back). Maybe someone can comment on components/specs?

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/pi...IV001V-ELEBL-S

FWIW, my first impressions of that bike: http://www.tetongravity.com/story/bi...from-interbike

Fun rig. Have to say I enjoyed the 5010 and Evil Insurgent more, but that bike is real fun.

Remedy I found to be pretty awesome bike, just needs a bigger fork (at least the 27.5" model I tried) and to swap out those GOD AWFUL Bontrager house grips, which were like holding onto cement.

[goldenboy]

OK, I guess I'll revive this thread even though now it's more of a "what's up with new bikes" thread.

I went with the SB5C, in a medium. I only have a few rides on it so far, but I'm not loving it. Hopefully I'll start to get used to it, but right now it just feels slow and unresponsive, and the front end is so light and squirrely on even moderately steep climbs. I keep going wide on corners- it just won't hook up the way I'm expecting it to. I'm thinking that going from the stock 55 stem to something shorter would be a good first step? Right now there is a big stack of spacers on the steerer tube, too, so maybe I need to drop that height. Old school thinking was that the handlebars and seat should be close to the same height, which it is right now...

And then there's the shocks. The sag was set correctly, but I'm only using ~80% of them, even if I go in the park or hard through a rock garden. I just dropped a bit of pressure in both, it felt a little better but I need some more time on that.

[grinch]

Without knowing your height/inseam, the 55 mm stem does seem a touch long on the modern geometry of that bike. Shorter stem will quicken it and give better control but it's pretty easy/cheap to try lowering your bar first buy just switching a few spacers from the bottom of the stem to on top of the stem. Your bar height sounds fine though

[muted]

I'd give it some time and get used to the bike. I am exactly like you going from an "old" bike to a modern bike this season. Everything felt weird at first but it didn't take long to figure it out.

But if you figure out how to solve the squirrely front end issue, I'm all ears. I have the same problem but never thought it was something I could fix and keep the bike cornering as-is. A shorter stem will not help your front end stay on the ground. I might play with stack height, re-reading this thread....

[joetron]

And then there's the shocks. The sag was set correctly, but I'm only using ~80% of them, even if I go in the park or hard through a rock garden. I just dropped a bit of pressure in both, it felt a little better but I need some more time on that.

I'll use recommended sag on the rear shock, but I've never liked using sag to set up a fork. My super dialed in parking lot technique of setting the pressure where I can push through about 2/3 of travel with a tiny little hop and a good push of the arms seems to get me to a good starting point.

If the front end feels like its understeering, pushing through turns, that could be coming from too high a psi in the fork, too much LSC, and your adaptation to slacker geometry - or some combination of all three. Stack height might also be a culprit - but I doubt enough to really make all the differences you are describing.

Solution: Drop the stem 10-15mm, drop some air from the fork (try this before messing with your damping....always mess with springs first - then if it feels too squishy in beginning of travel but you aren't frequently bottoming out, turn up the LSC to give you a little more support at the top of the stroke).
I think the biggest thing is like muted suggested - put in some time and figure the bike out. Be sure to really lean the bike over through turns. As head angles get slacker, more lean is needed.

[SchralphMacchio]

GB, here are my thoughts.

Also, how wide are your bars set up? That will make a big difference.

1) Unresponsive cornering, washing out front tire:
I had this same problem going from a short frame, long stem, steep head tube to a long frame, slack head tube. You need to get more weight on your front tire. A few ways to do this:

a) 40mm stem ... you mentioned you have short reach (5'7" with short arms) ... on a Medium SB-66 I was happy with 50mm but I felt I could have gone with 40mm. I'm 5' 8", so I think you should try a 40mm stem.

b) Riding position ... get your body weight more forward (more centered on the frame), and more directly upright above the tires when cornering. Cheating by leaning your upper body into the turn, especially if you are in the back seat, will only take weight off the front tire. New school bikes require new school riding positions ... I think old school bikes taught all of us habits about "how to not endo" that make it so that you don't properly weight the front tire on new school bikes.

c) Fork sag ... make sure your fork sag is set with your body position in a "seated attack mode." I had set my fork pressure to suck up big hits, but then I realized this had the effect of over-pressuring and raising the sag height, which gave me worse traction. I put in volume reducers and reduced fork pressure to get around 20% sag which gave me more front end traction.

d) Stack Height ... I'd play with your spacer settings last, as I think traction is much more sensitive to the above factors. But dropping or raising stack height will have an effect on how much weight gets onto the front tire while riding.


2) Squirrely front end going uphill:
This also has a lot to do with the transition to longer reach, shorter stem, slacker head angle.

a) Get used to doing a mini-crunchie to pull your bar into your chest and keep your core stable when climbing ... try to quiet your hands and smooth your cadence like you are riding rollers. It just takes a while to get used to updated geometry and short stems that don't automatically pull your weight way over your front wheel - so you have to do this more actively and more consciously.

b) Get a dual position fork like a Pike DPA or TALAS. An adjustable 150/120 fork will really help you with long climbs and mellow terrain in 120mm travel and then going into 150mm of travel for the rougher stuff. I'm currently running 160/130 Pike DPA on a Bronson and am about to shorten it to 150/120 to get better front end traction.


3) Full length of travel
Don't compromise on air pressure if your sag is already set properly. Drastically throwing off sag canruin the riding properties and bike geometry.

Shock: I can't remember what % is recommended for the 5c / switch infinity linkage but figure that out and find the correct pressure to keep your shock there ... probably around 30% is my guess.
Fork: Try about 20% sag seated attack on your fork as a starting point and optimize the pressure and damping for traction.

The way to get full travel is to find out if there are volume reducers (spacers or tokens) in your shock or fork that are keeping you from getting your full travel and remove 1 of them to get more travel.

Shock: If you have no volume reducers and you can't get full travel even on big hits, with proper sag, then consider going to a higher-volume shock. Original SB5c's were kitted with small volume Fox CTDs and they are now kitted with higher volume Fox DPS EVOLs ... if you can get your hands on an EVOL air can it will smooth out the initial response and get you a more linear response that should allow you to use more of your travel.

Fork: I can't imagine you are having issues getting full travel out of your fork if you remove all of the tokens ... I've simply never heard of this.


Don't give up on the SB5c. Setup is everything. That bike is an amazing platform and if I had the money and/or hookup that's what I'd be currently riding.

[muted]

b) Riding position ... get your body weight more forward (more centered on the frame), and more directly upright above the tires when cornering. Cheating by leaning your upper body into the turn, especially if you are in the back seat, will only take weight off the front tire. New school bikes require new school riding positions ... I think old school bikes taught all of us habits about "how to not endo" that make it so that you don't properly weight the front tire on new school bikes.

I finally figured this out yesterday, and thanks to Park Citys "Endless Gold Level Switchbacks" I somewhat got my body position down after 145 switchbacks in under 20 minutes.

[goldenboy]

Also, how wide are your bars set up? That will make a big difference.

b) Riding position ... get your body weight more forward (more centered on the frame), and more directly upright above the tires when cornering. Cheating by leaning your upper body into the turn, especially if you are in the back seat, will only take weight off the front tire. New school bikes require new school riding positions ... I think old school bikes taught all of us habits about "how to not endo" that make it so that you don't properly weight the front tire on new school bikes.

Thanks for your responses- everyone!

Bars are stock, so 740mm

Yeah, it might be my riding more than anything. I sure as shit leaned back on my first bike- fully rigid circa mid 80's as a 13 year old. The new bend at the waist to put weight over the front doesn't feel natural at all, though I'm working on it. Tough to mess with shocks and components while simultaneously trying to pay attention to my technique. One thing at a time- there's certainly a list off this thread right now...

[panchosdad]

Stiff wheels and a dropper post certainly help with the cornering thing.

[SchralphMacchio]

740mm is probably just right for someone who is 5' 7" on a 5c - and also wide enough that you should feel okay on a 40mm stem.

Do you have a dropper kitted into your bike?

Start with the 40mm stem, drop your saddle and bring your hips forward when cornering. The bike ought to feel much different!

Also, I know they kit that bike with a 140mm fork, but I really think a 150/120 is where it's at for places in the west that have long climbs followed by long steep downhills. 150mm will slack out the bike to 66.5 degrees when descending and 120mm will steepen it up to 68 degrees when climbing. Best of both worlds!

[adrenalated]

FWIW, I'm a goon when it comes to steep technical climbs (like most things MTB), but in addition to the two things Schralph mentioned, I'm also finding that dropping my seat just a touch from typical climbing height helps make it easier to get my weight in the right spot on steeper climbs. Need a dropper to do this efficiently, obviously.

[jm2e]

1. Wider bars. I seriously can't imagine riding 740mm bars. My 5' 2" wife has 760mm bars on her trail bike.
2. 40mm stem. Get rid of those spacers. Or at least utilize them to figure out what works and then cut that shit down to a reasonable length.
3. New geo bikes take several rides to get used to them.
4. Yes, the front will want to wander on climbs. That's not because the geo is goofy, it's because most people are pulling back on the bars subconsciously when they climb or go into turns. With old steep head angles and long ass chain stays, this kept all your weight forward no matter how hard you pulled back. Think of the bike like skiing. You can tell people to lean way forward, but really all you're doing is trying to keep them from leaning back like everyone does when things get awkward. You want your weight neutral on your pedals just like they're on skis. Not on your heels, not on your toes.
5. Glad to know your Yeti hasn't broken yet. Please be sure to let us know when it does ....... just for reference.

[TahoeJ]

A dropper will definitely help getting used to a bike with slacker geometry. With the full seat height behind you it's a little scary to start committing hard to your front wheel, so having that seat out or your way is kind of reassuring should you feel the need to get back quickly. Plus you can get low and back while still pressing forward on your bars when needed, finding your balance point in certain situations without sacrificing traction.

[panchosdad]

Wouldn't a shorter stem make the climbing/wandering front end issue worse?

[grinch]

Wouldn't a shorter stem make the climbing/wandering front end issue worse?

Shorter stem should mitigate wheel flop(wandering) with slacker head angles. He could get the reach lost with the shorter stem with a longer bar. Pick the right sweep for your shoulder width. I'm a similar size and I can't imagine not having my 30mm stem. Many full on xc bikes next year come with angles/stems/bars that were previously reserved for trail bikes. Better late than never I guess

[joetron]

A dropper will definitely help getting used to a bike with slacker geometry. With the full seat height behind you it's a little scary to start committing hard to your front wheel, so having that seat out or your way is kind of reassuring should you feel the need to get back quickly. Plus you can get low and back while still pressing forward on your bars when needed, finding your balance point in certain situations without sacrificing traction.

This is the best explanation for why droppers are awesome that I've ever read. Good stuff.

[goldenboy]

Great responses everyone. Schralph, I would love an adjustable fork, coming from a TALAS on my last 2 bikes, but I've spent enough $ for now... Actually, I wish I could change a lot about the bike, I'm not loving SRAM 1x at all, and I'm seriously considering swapping out the 8 year old XT brakes on the old bike for the Guides on this one. Haven't had time to get to the shop and try the shorter stem yet. Yes, it came with a dropper.

Went on a more XC style ride yesterday and felt awkward and tentative the entire ride. I could really use just one good moment on that bike to remind me that it can be fun

[muted]

Great responses everyone. Schralph, I would love an adjustable fork, coming from a TALAS on my last 2 bikes, but I've spent enough $ for now... Actually, I wish I could change a lot about the bike, I'm not loving SRAM 1x at all, and I'm seriously considering swapping out the 8 year old XT brakes on the old bike for the Guides on this one. Haven't had time to get to the shop and try the shorter stem yet. Yes, it came with a dropper.

Went on a more XC style ride yesterday and felt awkward and tentative the entire ride. I could really use just one good moment on that bike to remind me that it can be fun

Even going in a straight line through some chunder, you are never "having a moment" with the bike?

But I feel you on the 1x, having only 2 chainrings in front pisses me off when I spin out, I can't imagine having a 1x. It's like having a governor on an expensive fast car.

[goldenboy]

Even going in a straight line through some chunder, you are never "having a moment" with the bike?

But I feel you on the 1x, having only 2 chainrings in front pisses me off when I spin out, I can't imagine having a 1x. It's like having a governor on an expensive fast car.

No, I'm riding so timidly and slow that even a straight chunder section feels wrong. Speed is usually me friend.