Erik Roner Dies Skydiving

[supermodel159]

thanks, this is heartbreaking news for a lot of people. as you can imagine, he's made a lot of people happy. I'll miss my best friend.

Sorry for your tremendous loss. Keep your head up!

[Dexter Rutecki]

Lots of people with internal anger that secretly wish they had the balls to take on these risks and live life to the fullest in an exciting way. Instead, they just mindlessly shuttle themselves to their 9 to 5 year in and year out while their excitement comes in the form of a once a year all-inclusive vacation to wherever. Then, when something like this happens, they take to internet message boards to pat themselves on the back for making the "right" decision.

Fucking sickening.

RIP Erik.

You may be right (about what's going on with some of these people--I haven't looked at any online comments aside from here), but I have to say that I can see the other side to this, and I find it upsetting.

When McConkey started getting into BASE stuff I remember telling another mag that I wished he wouldn't because I just couldn't see it ending well. I always basically assumed that Roner would go out the same way--I tend to assume that everyone who is 'pushing the limits' in something like BASE jumping (or ski BASE, or whatever) is very likely going to meet an end like this (and all too often that assumption is proved correct). And I can tell you for a fact that my feeling on this has nothing to do with 'internal anger' that exists because I don't have the balls to do something that regularly kills a large percentage of its participants. (Note: I understand this was a skydiving accident, but if he got tangled in a tree near the ground I'm going to assume he wasn't doing a 'typical' sky dive where you land in a safe, very open area (like at a jump site), and was probably pushing some sort of limits again).

I'll also acknowledge that I could be painted as inconsistent/hypocritical on this (probably many or most of us have done things a lot of people would consider dumb: skiing steeps over exposure, avy risk, even ski racing are all things some people would see as stupid risks), but I just feel like there should be some sort of common sense line instead of people always seeing what they can get away with before the odds catch up.

And then you throw in the fact that guys like McConkey and Roner have kids, and...well, it's just hard for me to understand. My personal approach to skiing in places where a mistake could kill me has certainly changed since having children (not that I just sit inside all the time or completely avoid skiing things that I used to, but it definitely has added an extra dimension to my thinking).

Anyway, I just feel like the typical lines after something like this ('he died doing what he loved' or 'at least he died living', etc.) ignore what to me seems like a real problem. And it never really gets addressed, and by reacting with indignation when someone points out the problem I think it just obscures what should really be discussed. Honestly, it's just too much of this thing happening over, and over, and over...

edit: not saying mdblows is doing what I just described since I don't know what he was responding to--speaking more generally.

[powtario]

^^^well said.

So sad to hear about this, RonerVision was one of the funniest things I've ever seen. The bit with his son (aka doll with sound effects) skydiving and crash landing actually made me spit out my coffee.

Gaffney talked about this after Shane....the number of people dying doing what they love is simply incredible to what it was in the past, at least in North America. I think in Yurp the expectation is people that push it this hard will die doing it eventually. It is still a shock to us everytime it happens.

We've lost a lot of good people.

RIP

[tripice351]

Sincerely bummed. Never met him, just a fan. Big vibes for family and friends. Goodbye Erik, thank you for sharing your life with us all.

[skifishbum]

You may be right (about what's going on with some of these people--I haven't looked at any online comments aside from here), but I have to say that I can see the other side to this, and I find it upsetting.

When McConkey started getting into BASE stuff I remember telling another mag that I wished he wouldn't because I just couldn't see it ending well. I always basically assumed that Roner would go out the same way--I tend to assume that everyone who is 'pushing the limits' in something like BASE jumping (or ski BASE, or whatever) is very likely going to meet an end like this (and all too often that assumption is proved correct). And I can tell you for a fact that my feeling on this has nothing to do with 'internal anger' that exists because I don't have the balls to do something that regularly kills a large percentage of its participants. (Note: I understand this was a skydiving accident, but if he got tangled in a tree near the ground I'm going to assume he wasn't doing a 'typical' sky dive where you land in a safe, very open area (like at a jump site), and was probably pushing some sort of limits again).

I'll also acknowledge that I could be painted as inconsistent/hypocritical on this (probably many or most of us have done things a lot of people would consider dumb: skiing steeps over exposure, avy risk, even ski racing are all things some people would see as stupid risks), but I just feel like there should be some sort of common sense line instead of people always seeing what they can get away with before the odds catch up.

And then you throw in the fact that guys like McConkey and Roner have kids, and...well, it's just hard for me to understand. My personal approach to skiing in places where a mistake could kill me has certainly changed since having children (not that I just sit inside all the time or completely avoid skiing things that I used to, but it definitely has added an extra dimension to my thinking).

Anyway, I just feel like the typical lines after something like this ('he died doing what he loved' or 'at least he died living', etc.) ignore what to me seems like a real problem. And it never really gets addressed, and by reacting with indignation when someone points out the problem I think it just obscures what should really be discussed. Honestly, it's just too much of this thing happening over, and over, and over...

edit: not saying mdblows is doing what I just described since I don't know what he was responding to--speaking more generally.

not everyone is wired like you
you can discuss it all ya want
or ya can accept it for what it is

[LightRanger]

not everyone is wired like you

True. And folks are going to do what they do and should certainly be able to. Erik, and Shane, and Dean, and others, clearly had an incredible zest for life and drive that most people don't have.

Still, I've thought for years, really since Billy Poole died, that the drive to go higher and do riskier stuff was starting to bug me. At least to the extent that "action sports culture" and various companies were encouraging it. I don't want folks dying because they feel they need sell stuff for their sponsors to feed their families. I think that's more what Dex was saying.

I hadn't thought about it much, but after Dean's passing, Clif's dropping of his sponsorship looks pretty prescient.

[stfu&gbtw]

You may be right (about what's going on with some of these people--I haven't looked at any online comments aside from here), but I have to say that I can see the other side to this, and I find it upsetting.

When McConkey started getting into BASE stuff I remember telling another mag that I wished he wouldn't because I just couldn't see it ending well. I always basically assumed that Roner would go out the same way--I tend to assume that everyone who is 'pushing the limits' in something like BASE jumping (or ski BASE, or whatever) is very likely going to meet an end like this (and all too often that assumption is proved correct). And I can tell you for a fact that my feeling on this has nothing to do with 'internal anger' that exists because I don't have the balls to do something that regularly kills a large percentage of its participants. (Note: I understand this was a skydiving accident, but if he got tangled in a tree near the ground I'm going to assume he wasn't doing a 'typical' sky dive where you land in a safe, very open area (like at a jump site), and was probably pushing some sort of limits again).

I'll also acknowledge that I could be painted as inconsistent/hypocritical on this (probably many or most of us have done things a lot of people would consider dumb: skiing steeps over exposure, avy risk, even ski racing are all things some people would see as stupid risks), but I just feel like there should be some sort of common sense line instead of people always seeing what they can get away with before the odds catch up.

And then you throw in the fact that guys like McConkey and Roner have kids, and...well, it's just hard for me to understand. My personal approach to skiing in places where a mistake could kill me has certainly changed since having children (not that I just sit inside all the time or completely avoid skiing things that I used to, but it definitely has added an extra dimension to my thinking).

Anyway, I just feel like the typical lines after something like this ('he died doing what he loved' or 'at least he died living', etc.) ignore what to me seems like a real problem. And it never really gets addressed, and by reacting with indignation when someone points out the problem I think it just obscures what should really be discussed. Honestly, it's just too much of this thing happening over, and over, and over...

edit: not saying mdblows is doing what I just described since I don't know what he was responding to--speaking more generally.

The part of this that I struggle with is that it's all so subjective to perspective and values... I'm not the sort of guy who'd go ski-basing while having a family at home. But I make plenty of decisions that my family is comfortable with, but that make other people uncomfortable. Moving off the grid to a house nearly 10k' above sea level with a pregnant wife, for example, is a decision for which I've been criticized, despite how much satisfaction and enjoyment we've gotten from having done it. Taking an 80% pay cut to take a job that allowed me to ski 150+ days/year was a decision that resulted in a fair amount of criticism. Just skiing fast and jumping off stuff is cause for concern among the unwashed masses... And I don't have a lot of patience for other people's concern.

So, I'd imagine that people like Roner, by the time they're 40 and have a family, have considered the realities of their decisions, and have come to their own conclusions. As much as there are obvious decisions those people make that I would not make for myself, I have a hard time drawing a line in the sand to say that at some point, those decisions become "wrong". In contrast, I'd be much more comfortable making the choices Roner did, than to choose to travel for business all the time until I ended up dying in a vehicular accident.

Unfortunately, none of us get out alive, and we have limited ability to control how that unfolds. Not skydiving wouldn't have saved Roner's life. It might not have even saved it yesterday. Sky diving is riskier than many activities, but it remains true that the mortality rate for those who skydive and those who do not are both holding steady at 100%.

[mdblows]

You may be right (about what's going on with some of these people--I haven't looked at any online comments aside from here), but I have to say that I can see the other side to this, and I find it upsetting.

When McConkey started getting into BASE stuff I remember telling another mag that I wished he wouldn't because I just couldn't see it ending well. I always basically assumed that Roner would go out the same way--I tend to assume that everyone who is 'pushing the limits' in something like BASE jumping (or ski BASE, or whatever) is very likely going to meet an end like this (and all too often that assumption is proved correct). And I can tell you for a fact that my feeling on this has nothing to do with 'internal anger' that exists because I don't have the balls to do something that regularly kills a large percentage of its participants. (Note: I understand this was a skydiving accident, but if he got tangled in a tree near the ground I'm going to assume he wasn't doing a 'typical' sky dive where you land in a safe, very open area (like at a jump site), and was probably pushing some sort of limits again).

I'll also acknowledge that I could be painted as inconsistent/hypocritical on this (probably many or most of us have done things a lot of people would consider dumb: skiing steeps over exposure, avy risk, even ski racing are all things some people would see as stupid risks), but I just feel like there should be some sort of common sense line instead of people always seeing what they can get away with before the odds catch up.

And then you throw in the fact that guys like McConkey and Roner have kids, and...well, it's just hard for me to understand. My personal approach to skiing in places where a mistake could kill me has certainly changed since having children (not that I just sit inside all the time or completely avoid skiing things that I used to, but it definitely has added an extra dimension to my thinking).

Anyway, I just feel like the typical lines after something like this ('he died doing what he loved' or 'at least he died living', etc.) ignore what to me seems like a real problem. And it never really gets addressed, and by reacting with indignation when someone points out the problem I think it just obscures what should really be discussed. Honestly, it's just too much of this thing happening over, and over, and over...

edit: not saying mdblows is doing what I just described since I don't know what he was responding to--speaking more generally.

Not referring to those on this board so much, as TGR obviously attracts a segment of the population that's more risk-accepting than average. I'm more referring to the comments on the general news sites that have picked this story up - they seem to be chock full of average joes patting themselves on the back and condemning these "risk takers" or "adrenaline seekers" for being bad parents/spouses/etc.

Is it awful and unfortunate that he left behind children and a spouse? Absolutely. But where do you draw the line? We don't seem to condemn people who work themselves to death due to a heart attack at age 45, or people who smoke 3 packs a day and die of lung cancer. I dunno, I'm kind of just rambling.

[strawjack]

Pay no attention to the mouth breathers posting on random news sites. Those idiots are killing themselves slowly eating McShit, downing a big gulp of diet coke while posting their spew of ignorant rubbish.

[undertow2]

You may be right (about what's going on with some of these people--I haven't looked at any online comments aside from here), but I have to say that I can see the other side to this, and I find it upsetting.

When McConkey started getting into BASE stuff I remember telling another mag that I wished he wouldn't because I just couldn't see it ending well. I always basically assumed that Roner would go out the same way--I tend to assume that everyone who is 'pushing the limits' in something like BASE jumping (or ski BASE, or whatever) is very likely going to meet an end like this (and all too often that assumption is proved correct). And I can tell you for a fact that my feeling on this has nothing to do with 'internal anger' that exists because I don't have the balls to do something that regularly kills a large percentage of its participants. (Note: I understand this was a skydiving accident, but if he got tangled in a tree near the ground I'm going to assume he wasn't doing a 'typical' sky dive where you land in a safe, very open area (like at a jump site), and was probably pushing some sort of limits again).

I'll also acknowledge that I could be painted as inconsistent/hypocritical on this (probably many or most of us have done things a lot of people would consider dumb: skiing steeps over exposure, avy risk, even ski racing are all things some people would see as stupid risks), but I just feel like there should be some sort of common sense line instead of people always seeing what they can get away with before the odds catch up.

And then you throw in the fact that guys like McConkey and Roner have kids, and...well, it's just hard for me to understand. My personal approach to skiing in places where a mistake could kill me has certainly changed since having children (not that I just sit inside all the time or completely avoid skiing things that I used to, but it definitely has added an extra dimension to my thinking).

Anyway, I just feel like the typical lines after something like this ('he died doing what he loved' or 'at least he died living', etc.) ignore what to me seems like a real problem. And it never really gets addressed, and by reacting with indignation when someone points out the problem I think it just obscures what should really be discussed. Honestly, it's just too much of this thing happening over, and over, and over...

edit: not saying mdblows is doing what I just described since I don't know what he was responding to--speaking more generally.

Nicely stated Dexter... RIP Roner and I am really sad for his friends, family, wife and especially his children...

[Tye 1on]

Sucks that in just the single year since Steve Casimiro wrote this after the loss of JP, Andreas and Liz, that his words resonate again. Thoughts on Honoring the Dead, and the Living.

[TahoeJ]

Dexter summed up what I was getting at. People are free to take all the risks they want but it's just such a bummer how many people are dying at very young ages. I re-watched Seth Morrison's The Ordinary Skier the other day and it just made me sad. One segment features Dave Rosenberger, JP Auclair and Adreas Fransson ... it was like, fuck, all of them are gone now and that movie is only a few years old.

Anyway, the circumstances in this case are particularly horrible having this go down at a High Fives event. So sad. :-(

[F#*k you cat]

Sucks to look your best friend. I know. I still think of all the bad ass shit my lil brother and I did before his untimely death. Part of me feels that I am still trying to out push the same level of Brian's adrenaline.

we live in this addiction.

++++Vibes to the community and especially the Roner family. +++++

sad news

[Tye 1on]

Anyway, the circumstances in this case are particularly horrible having this go down at a High Fives event. So sad. :-(

this was mis-reported yesterday, likely because Roy T had spoken with the press right after it happened, but it was actually a fundraiser for the Squaw Valley Institute.

[undertow2]

I re-watched Seth Morrison's The Ordinary Skier the other day and it just made me sad. One segment features Dave Rosenberger, JP Auclair and Adreas Fransson ... it was like, fuck, all of them are gone now and that movie is only a few years old.(

I watched the same movie a few weeks ago and felt the exact same way... The other one was the movie Kye did with Plake where Kye was going to ski the exact same line his Dad died on... There was a segment where Coombs gets off the Tram and introduces himself to Kye and wishes him luck... Two weeks later Coombs dies... They are all a breed that I get and don't get all at the same time...

[Dantheman]

For those in the know, were these guys truly "pushing it" at all or was this just a freak accident? It seems really odd that someone with as much parachute piloting experience as Roner would fly into a tree full-speed under these circumstances.

[skiitsbetter]

RIP. I think his segment in Soul Purpose was the best ski BASE segment.

Must weigh heavily on guys like JT and McIntosh.

[Dexter Rutecki]

not everyone is wired like you

Thankfully.

you can discuss it all ya want
or ya can accept it for what it is

Well, I think there's a bit more to it than that. I do believe there's a cycle of people pushing each other to more and more 'extreme' stuff--how people are wired hasn't changed over the past 20 or 30 years, but the number of people being dropped doing this sort of stuff has (at least it seems that way).

Still, I've thought for years, really since Billy Poole died, that the drive to go higher and do riskier stuff was starting to bug me. At least to the extent that "action sports culture" and various companies were encouraging it. I don't want folks dying because they feel they need sell stuff for their sponsors to feed their families. I think that's more what Dex was saying.

I think that part is obvious and shouldn't be tolerated, but I'm reacting here more to the sentiment that no one should advocate for dialing things back--I almost feel like those who heroicize people like McConkey (and he was certainly a hero to me, but not because he risked his life ski Basing) are feeding into this and acting as cheerleaders. That I don't get. Progressing whatever we think we're progressing isn't worth anyone's life, IMO.

I hadn't thought about it much, but after Dean's passing, Clif's dropping of his sponsorship looks pretty prescient.

When Clif did that I completely understood it and supported it. I think all this unroped climbing that's going on is absurd--and it's really scary that kids might aspire to it.

Just skiing fast and jumping off stuff is cause for concern among the unwashed masses... And I don't have a lot of patience for other people's concern.

So, I'd imagine that people like Roner, by the time they're 40 and have a family, have considered the realities of their decisions, and have come to their own conclusions. As much as there are obvious decisions those people make that I would not make for myself, I have a hard time drawing a line in the sand to say that at some point, those decisions become "wrong". In contrast, I'd be much more comfortable making the choices Roner did, than to choose to travel for business all the time until I ended up dying in a vehicular accident.

That's part of what I was saying about being hypocritical (in the opinion of some people) on this. A lot of us take some sort of risk that others would reject, but I do think that even among people who ski potentially high consequence stuff there can be a line where we say it's just too much. For me I would define it as an activity where any time you have one real error the consequences are fatal--BASE, climbing without ropes, those sorts of things. If you ski over a no-fall zone to get to something that's one thing (you have a moment or a few moments of serious risk), but if you're actually skiing something very steep above exposure, I think that's a different category. If you race DH or skiercross you accept a real danger of injury, but if you screw up it's highly unlikely that you will actually die from it. In these other things you make one mistake and that's it. To me that's not acceptable, and I would personally discourage anyone I cared about from taking such risks (especially on a regular basis). I understand that it's a continuum--while I'm not advocating people not be allowed to take these risks, I also have trouble just accepting such behavior.

Unfortunately, none of us get out alive, and we have limited ability to control how that unfolds. Not skydiving wouldn't have saved Roner's life. It might not have even saved it yesterday. Sky diving is riskier than many activities, but it remains true that the mortality rate for those who skydive and those who do not are both holding steady at 100%.

If Shane hadn't gotten into BASE and ski basing it's a safe bet he'd still be with us. Same if Roner hadn't sky dived yesterday. Look at the guys who are still around--look at Schmidt and Plake and Morrison and Sage and a hundred others who don't try to parachute off cliffs 250 feet above the ground. Sure, they're still taking some big risks and could fall victim to them, but a single mistake generally won't cost them their lives.

Is it awful and unfortunate that he left behind children and a spouse? Absolutely. But where do you draw the line? We don't seem to condemn people who work themselves to death due to a heart attack at age 45, or people who smoke 3 packs a day and die of lung cancer. I dunno, I'm kind of just rambling.

Don't know about heart attack guy, but when smokers get lung cancer I think they deserve some condemnation. If you do things that almost inevitably are going to cause grief to those around you, and you keep doing it even knowing how high the risk and how certain the outcome is, well...I don't know. It's just awful that this is kind of routine at this point, and I do feel there are external factors driving some of these people to move on to bigger and more dramatic (and more risky) activities. All the wingsuit stuff where guys are narrowly avoiding canyon walls and outcroppings--I just feel like it's purely Russian roulette with probably a 100% death rate for people who continue to do it regularly. The margin for error is close to 0, which I guess is really my point--if you're doing something with no margin for error, should you (or anyone) really be doing it? I hope it's obvious that I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed (don't even know how that would work), but I think we should consider how we've arrived at where we now seem to be and if we can maybe put things back into perspective.

[raisingarizona13]

Very bad news My sincerest condolences to those close to him.

**
For those who don't know.
A charity Golf Event for High fives Foundation held in Olympic valley.
This means that everyone who was closest to him "Was there and saw it"

He died in his home town in-front of his closest friends and Family

Very dark Day for the Greater Tahoe community

My first thought was I really hope his kids weren't there watching. Once you become a parent that shit really bothers you or it does for me at least. Sucks.

[Mofro261]

If you do things that almost inevitably are going to cause grief to those around you, and you keep doing it even knowing how high the risk and how certain the outcome is, well...I don't know.

We have a name for this, it's called addiction. Yet we draw a line of acceptance and monetization between adrenaline junkie and just junkie.

spot on posts btw.

[Lindahl]

Well said Dex. I definitely feel the same way at times. Continuous exposure to risk where the most common outcome of an error is fatal - especially when you have kids - is something I can't wrap my head around. I won't judge them, but I don't get it either.

I do feel somewhat hypocritical when I consider the risk in avalanches however and I'm not quite sure how I manage to rationalize it. Anyone? I guess maybe the risk of that is just low enough with proper practice and knowledge to fall into another category? Perhaps it feels that way to proximity skydivers too? I guess the common outcome of an error doesn't mean you will get caught, much less even set one off? But it often does leave me wondering if its just the same game of Russian roulette before you slip up in the big way and its over - just more bullet-less chambers.

Condolences to Roner's family and friends and the Tahoe community.

[neck beard]

Death in the context of a rich and energetic lifestyle and community is always sad. I feel for family and friends.

were these guys truly "pushing it" at all ...?

There is always an element of random or difficult to manage risk. However, sky diving per se is pushing it, which is why life-time and diligent beginner jumpers alike tend to manage risk in a structured and planned way as they progress in the sport.

Same applies to scuba.

Same applies to mountaineering.

Same applies to speed flying.

Same applies to backcountry skiing.

I've heard life-time participants in some of those risk activities comment that skiers tend to be more cavalier when they adopt some of those risk sports. I am not saying this applies to the latest fatality at all, these guys could be meticulous planners, taking the risk management aspect very seriously. But it is a theme that keeps coming up: skiers take more risk in their newly adopted sports than long-term participants of those sports are prepared to take. Skiers transferring into ski mountaineering is the most easily observable example of this.

Personally I think you can do what ever you like, so long as you acknowledge that you are probably 'doing it wrong' compared to best practice risk management, and that you know what the consequences are when randomness lets you down.

I'm glad I am not a 20-something year old these days, with websites like "unofficial death works" endlessly pushing on me the glorification of recreational high risk taking for their own advertising gain. It is getting out of control.

[Bromontana]

This Squaw accident sounds like a freak accident. Skydiving, but a freak accident nonetheless. Have a hard time faulting Roner for doing something well below his skill limit.

I'm irritated by the industry culture and have been for a long time. It exploits a human blind spot; a lack of maturity in the overall perception of risk. It would be nice to see action sports cos. actually foot the bill for the risk underwritten by athletes, often on their behalf. The guys/gals dying is sad but they make choices. At a minimum the families that pay for athlete risk shouldn't be left behind while sponsors work to ensure next quarter's marketing reach goes undisturbed. That aspect is sickening to me, and some of that accountability falls on athletes.

Maybe we should all visit the life insurance thread for a refresher.

[adrenalated]

Dex makes many very good and well stated points. As Lindahl alludes to above though, and stfu discussed, there is risk in everybody's life. Some activities the risk is more obvious and higher - BASE, for example. I think the only people that have any place determining the amount of risk that's acceptable in their lives are the people taking the risk and their families and loved ones. No matter where you draw the line, it will always be higher than somebody else would draw it.

Risk can more or less be described as a product of consequences vs probability.

As we all as skiers know, there's also a lot of nuance to the level of risk we incur even within supposedly "risky" sports. Take free solo climbing, for example (Dex's "climbing without ropes" ). I free solo occasionally. I've never soloed anything harder than 5.4 and don't really intend to. I can't remember the last time I fell on something easier than 5.8, and I typically climb hard 5.10 to low 5.11 first try, without falling. Most routes I've soloed I've climbed roped first. So yes, while the consequences are high, the probability is low. It's very different from someone free soloing at or near their limit, where the consequences are equally as high, but the probability is much higher.

Driving a car has honestly a pretty high probability of an accident, but fairly low consequences most of the time. Still enough that risk is there though, and it's one that most people don't think about.

I don't know shit about BASE, skydiving, etc. and though my suspicion is that the base level of risk is higher than most other things, but I would suspect that like free solo climbing, there are factors that can alter the amount of risk one undertakes.

While I agree that would should not glorify or encourage risk, I think that as long as the person taking the risk and their close loved ones understand and accept the risk that they are taking, nobody else has any place in telling that person what to do. I've thought carefully about the activities that I do and draw the line at a point that I feel provides an appropriate level of risk vs reward for me, but will always respect that others may draw the line higher or lower than myself.

[strawjack]

As much as I agree with what's being said, I also will say that these guys are professional athletes. Nobody on this board is as good as Roner, Shane, etc. The exception is the pro's who do post here from time to time. With that said, they do not see the consequences as most people do. They see it as it will be done perfectly with a constant A-game mentality. It's their job. Their job is inherently dangerous. i.e. fisherman, loggers etc.

A former pro skier once said he knew it was time to quit when he didn't 'see' the lines anymore. It makes sense. Until that point he ripped the shit out of big dangerous lines that most would not feel safe attempting.

Of those that are still thankfully with us, they have had a certain amount of luck. Most recently was certainly Plake. All of us that have skied avi potential lines have had a certain amount of luck also.