ABS Avalanche Airbag Backpack

**subtle plague** · 05-03-2005, 01:31 PM

Well ive tried the search function in tech talk and here and it did not show any significant threads so im starting this one.
the next thing im going to buy once ive got money is one of these fine backpacks that may save your life once in an avalanche. Aside from the price what do you think of them and why is no one wearing them in the states and AK ? is it because they aren't available in the US or are there real reasons ?
The statistics of the swiss avalanche center are quite convincing and all the first hand experience i have heard of makes me want one of those badly.
One arguement against them is the fact that people say "maybe these guys would not have been buried anyway" which is quite stupid in my opinion.
considering the fact that some victims were buried but the Avalanche Airbag was still at the surface: Well that does make buddy rescue really easy and is certainly not a reason against using one.
In the Alps everyone with enough money is getting one and out of 52 people involved in avalanche incidents only one was buried so deep that he died (by an "afteravalanche" burying him once his own had stopped)
so: opinions ?

**PNWbrit** · 05-03-2005, 01:38 PM

http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/vi...&highlight=abs

try here

**Core Shot** · 05-03-2005, 04:54 PM

Its about the only thing that can save you if you are solo.

Otherwise, expense, weight, bulk, limited pack selection, and flying hassles (should be OK, but heard of hassles) are what keeps most from getting one. They are now in the US.

I have decided against getting one, but have been seriously considering an avalung.

**slim** · 05-03-2005, 05:30 PM

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**LeeLau** · 05-03-2005, 09:35 PM

Here are some comments of mine from another thread

These were my impressions:

- Packs were roomy.
- Lots of compartments. Compartments were well thought out.
- Top Pouch is especially roomy and has lots of compartments. Would be nice to have option where top pouch can be unzipped or unstrapped and left behind or used separately as a fannypack for quick trips. Also would be an option to decrease weight in pack.
- Material appeared really tough and shed snow easily. Pack is perfect size and heft to make a good seat when resting on the snow having lunch
- Hip belt compartment was difficult to use in the field. It was difficult to get the pull zipper started. Maybe needs a piece of fabric tied to it as a starter.
- Leg loops and metal hip belt area not easy to use and make the pack hard to get on and off quickly.
- Lacks adjustability in chest loop for smaller people
- This is a heavy pack even unladen. The weight is in a curious place; ie to the side which makes for some weight imbalance when skiing.
- I was not there when it happened but I heard that some of the trigger handles for the nitrogen dischargers fell off. Obviously that is not good from a safety aspect.
- Never used the crampon patch but they were small. Would be nice to have external holster too for ski crampons as well as boot crampons

Thread is here

http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/vi...er=asc&start=0

**skideeppow** · 05-03-2005, 10:04 PM

I spent about a month in Lech last year, and every guide/schooler were wearin them.
I know in AK, there are issues about pressure change and them deploying while in the basket of the heli.
My guide at bella coola this year had one but had it disarmed (I believe the co2 cartdrige was taken out).
Another issue i weight, 10 kilos (I think) but if it saves lifes than it is probably a good thing.

**subtle plague** · 05-04-2005, 02:40 AM

10kg ?? it's not THAT heavy

but the pressure change issues were new to me. but i guess they would take only effect when doing heliskiing.

the thing that would be one of my major concerns is: how well will they hold up when you huck things and backslap.

concerning the avalung: i got one of those already. (GF Birthday presents rock !

)

**Meathelmet** · 05-04-2005, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by skideeppow

Another issue i weight, 10 kilos (I think) but if it saves lifes than it is probably a good thing.

Eerm..

This 30 dynafit abs weights 2.8kgs...
So those weights are greatly exagarated.

Even the 50L version weights only 3.2kg, wich is about 40% more than
a average 50L backpack.

Originally Posted by Skideeppow

I know in AK, there are issues about pressure change and them deploying while in the basket of the heli.My guide at bella coola this year had one but had it disarmed (I believe the co2 cartdrige was taken out).

Intrested in this one too.
How can the changes in airpressure affect the balloons?
They are packed thight with minimal (or no) air inside, the nitrous capsule is sealed from the bottle-end etc..

The fear here in europe was at one point that the guides were not allowed to have the bag in the cabine (beside the pilot) because of the accidental
release of the trigger (and thus the balloons).
Wich would suck.

The guides (for what i have heard) stash the packs nowadays to the skitrays or keep them in the passanger compartment,where a accidental
discharge wouldn be as dangerous.

I personally have planned to get one this summer.
A good backpack cost around 200e in theese neigbourhoods, and you can
get a ABS for 399-499 from sportconrad.
I skip one pair of skis next season and buy instead something that might save my life one day.

And yes, there have been lot of talk about the change in the risk taking behiavour, even since the first transrecievers came, after all theese gizmos.And its a good subject to talk about. What are the risks of relying on technology instead of knowledge...etc..

**Hicks** · 05-06-2005, 03:11 AM

I got one this year which can be used as a small daypack (40 l content), however not for multiple days in the backcountry. Weights around 3.5 kg, price was about 350.- Euros. Smaller compartments inside and an external net for a helmet and other stuff. OTOH I got doubts on many avy backpacks I've seen really having the space they advertise for plus the bottle and balloon put limits on the pack to be 'stuffed' like a regular one.

Helps in dry and not too wet snow but won't save you in the big concrete-like (spring) slides which carry lots of 'bricks' and basically kill you on the spot. Different talks are frankly bulls**t IMHO.

As for the accidental deploying: you are supposed to disconnect the trigger any time you enter a plane or a lift/tram. Most people seem to forget about that according to my own personal observations. The balloon blowing up in a crowded tram or even on a chair lift can become a serious issue too. Never heard of the trigger capsules or CO²- bottles discharging under pressure change. They are entirely sealed and designed for use in significantly different altitudes which change on any major big mountain descent at least here in the Alps.

If adusted correct and the trigger secured properly no restrictions while skiing or backslapping, just check the outer ziplocks for the balloon compartments afterwards if that happens.

I know this is beating a dead horse but the avy balloon is neither a life insurance nor an adequate replacement for the other standard avy gear or - even more important IMO - a proper risk management and behaviour up front.

**corn dog** · 05-06-2005, 02:37 PM

I recently got a 15 and a 30 model. Would echo the above comments. 30 has some room, 15 is pretty small, but ok for short trips where you don't bring much more than a shell and some snacks. The waist band is annoying as it takes a while to adjust the length. This doesn't really matter when its lightly loaded, but if I filled up the 30 I think it would be more of an issue. Either futz with the belt all the time, or skin up with the waist belt loose. I bought them because of those stats about lives saved. Its a little heavier so I haven't been bothering with it in spring conditions. Guess I'll have to think about that though.

**TheWhippet** · 10-13-2009, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by subtle plague

Well ive tried the search function in tech talk and here and it did not show any significant threads so im starting this one.
the next thing im going to buy once ive got money is one of these fine backpacks that may save your life once in an avalanche. Aside from the price what do you think of them and why is no one wearing them in the states and AK ? is it because they aren't available in the US or are there real reasons ?
The statistics of the swiss avalanche center are quite convincing and all the first hand experience i have heard of makes me want one of those badly.
One arguement against them is the fact that people say "maybe these guys would not have been buried anyway" which is quite stupid in my opinion.
considering the fact that some victims were buried but the Avalanche Airbag was still at the surface: Well that does make buddy rescue really easy and is certainly not a reason against using one.
In the Alps everyone with enough money is getting one and out of 52 people involved in avalanche incidents only one was buried so deep that he died (by an "afteravalanche" burying him once his own had stopped)
so: opinions ?

Did you buy one yet? I am in the market for one myself (see my posts on my posts on http://the-whippet.blogspot.com/ ) and am researching this right now. The stats and data are really compelling even though it is a bit heavy poundwise and dollarwise. In any case I have made up my mind to buy onbe so now its down to ABS System or Snowplulse. Any one out there with any experience of either?

**JoeStrummer** · 10-13-2009, 05:00 PM

There are much newer threads on this topic. Kai owns both and has reviewed them both in the past year, try some more searching.

I have skied with the ABS system for weeklong trips in avy terrain. It was heavier and clunkier than other packs I have used but I didn't notice this once I put it on. It skied well enough.