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  1. #101
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    Hasn't this topic been hashed and then re-hashed? Uphill access is not automatically granted merely because a resort is on public lands. The insurance policy and the lease from NFS are the two primary reasons uphill travel is restricted at resorts. Add in things like safety and screwing up operations and you have several legitimate reasons to bar skinning.
    I know with our recent lean seasons many times the resorts were the only thing going for skinning. I get it. Some resorts are fine with it if a few rules are followed. Is there some new angle in this argument I'm not privvy to?

    For the record, I'd love to be able to skin at more resorts. It's probably worth our time to pay attention to when leases are being re-written and make an attempt to get uphill travel included. I don't know how often this is done though but I but it's not that often.
    Last edited by Tahoe Bromide; 09-30-2015 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    I would say that sounds perfectly reasonable but it didn't seem to be an issue for all of those years prior.
    Save for the employee who died after hitting her head on a rock skiing a preseason storm.

  3. #103
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    ^^ That was the "unfortunate instructor incident" I referred to in my post.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahoe Bromide View Post
    Hasn't this topic been hashed and then re-hashed? Uphill access is not automatically granted merely because a resort is on public lands. The insurance policy and the lease from NFS are the two primary reasons uphill travel is restricted at resorts. Add in things like safety and screwing up operations and you have several legitimate reasons to bar skinning.
    I know with our recent lean seasons many times the resorts were the only thing going for skinning. I get it. Some resorts are fine with it if a few rules are followed. Is there some new angle in this argument I'm not privvy to?

    For the record, I'd love to be able to skin at more resorts. It's probably worth our time to pay attention to when leases are being re-written and make an attempt to get uphill travel included. I don't know how often this is done though but I but it's not that often.

    Unfortunately, my understanding is that most of the leases were renewed in the 90s and mid-2000s. I believe they are 30-year leases. I'm finding that out.

    There's a difference, however, between their long-term leases and their yearly winter-operating plans. Their operating plans are subject to change and can address such issues. The sense I've gotten from the Forest Service is that they're receptive to this issue.

    In certain places it may be that the ski area is already cool with it as long as everybody is chill. But management changes, and, as we just saw with the Jakes parking issue, having a concrete (heh) long-term solution, rather than relying on informal ad-hoc "this is how it's always been" approaches, is probably the better way to go. For example, I seem to recall that Kirkwood used to not care, and then started to tell people to leave after Vail bought the area. But I don't ski that area regularly (once or twice a winter at most), so I'm not that familiar with the issues there.

    At this point, I'm basically in information-gathering mode. I want to have a more complete view of the issue before deciding what the best approach is, and where (we're talking several different forest management units with different staffs). And, yes, all the other points you make are well-taken. But there's definitely been a good amount of arbitrariness about barring public access beyond the obvious legitimate concerns about people skinning under patrol running A/C.

    Edit to add: I should note that I have no idea how successfully such an effort might be, but I think it's worth trying. And, as far as I know, nobody has pushed back on the issue in any comprehensive manner anywhere else in the country. Winter Wildlands tried to get something into the Ski Area Enhancement Act a couple years back, but nothing came of it. There's a few places that have formal policies (e.g. Crested Butte comes to mind), but not many. Sugar Bowl does as well, but as I stated above, they've been something of a disappointment to me. Well-intentioned, though. I'll give them that.
    Last edited by LightRanger; 09-30-2015 at 11:34 AM. Reason: typo
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  5. #105
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    ^^ Have you managed to pull any of the USFS lease documents yet? I assume those are public record. I think it's worth looking into all of this - everyone just assumes the resorts know the intricate details of what they can and cannot do but my guess is they're just winging it and hoping no one calls bullshit. I don't think it's a big deal compared to all of the parking access stuff going down, but it can't hurt to find out the facts.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    I think it's worth looking into all of this - everyone just assumes the resorts know the intricate details of what they can and cannot do but my guess is they're just winging it and hoping no one calls bullshit.
    Heheh. Based on my and various siblings' experiences working in different positions at several different North Lake/Truckee ski areas, I strongly suspect you're right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  7. #107
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    All the money constantly going in these roadside improvements to improve the clarity of the lake is a colossal waste. It's been proven time after time that the biggest threat to keeping tahoe blue is the keys reroute of the truckee river. They tried to restore it but it will never work as it should and the keys aren't going anywhere so the lakes clarity continues to get worse. So they make folks put in bmp's and spend millions on curbs and drains because they can't do anything about the real problem. The whole thing is a fucking joke. It started with the winter closure of spring creek/tallac and has continued with this bullshit all in the name of keeping tahoe blue.

    It's only going to get worse. The powers that be don't give a flying fuck about backcountry access here
    And the wwa is not my voice either

  8. #108
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    Are algal blooms much of a problem in tahoe? As I understand it, silt is the main culprit to decreasing lake clarity. Just look at ariel photos of the south shore before and after the truckee was rerouted for the keys development. Every other contributor to decreasing lake clarity is small potatoes, including urban runoff from roads.
    And calling increased bc usage a cancer is lame. Saying it will weed out people not going the extra distance might be true to an extant, but it will mostly just make it a pain in the ass for all of us. Even at packed trailheads there are always less traveled paths, so the people who are anti bc growth because their lines are getting snaked are just lazy and doing it wrong

  9. #109
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    I know Eurasian milfoil is an issue... To the point where they're talking about using an herbicide in the Keys. I don't think they'd even mention that unless it had gotten that bad. But I don't think that's a lakewide clarity issue. Could be wrong though. I know TONS of money was spent on divers to rip it out of Emerald Bay by hand.

    One thing they're scared about is mussels/clams getting out of control and dramatically changing the water chemistry. That would cause algae blooms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  10. #110
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    why would the truckee rerouting cause clarity issues? What's the actual mechanics behind that?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by emcee View Post
    why would the truckee rerouting cause clarity issues? What's the actual mechanics behind that?
    I'm guessing it's that the keys is in place of what used to be extensive riparian habitat that filtered the silt out.
    Even sometimes when I'm snowboarding I'm like "Hey I'm snowboarding! Because I suck dick, I'm snowboarding!" --Dan Savage

  12. #112
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    ^^^ That. Keys is an environmental debacle. And the blowback from it is largely the reason TRPA exists and has such broad powers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  13. #113
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    Just got this reply:


    Supervisor Novasel is working on a solution with Caltrans and State Parks and hopes to hold a community meeting on the West Shore in October to discuss this. And, will be holding a community meeting at South Lake Tahoe on October 15th where we can bring this subject up, as well.    


    We appreciate your advocacy, and we will do our best to preserve parking for back country access.

  14. #114
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    Great news Rod. Thanks for keeping us informed.

    Here's a new way to coordinate and perhaps a more appealing group than WWA for some of those here:

    https://www.facebook.com/TahoeBackco...age_fan_invite

    The spread of the anti-cancer:
    http://snowbrains.com/tahoe-official...-skiing-zones/
    Last edited by lepistoir; 10-01-2015 at 08:14 AM.
    Even sometimes when I'm snowboarding I'm like "Hey I'm snowboarding! Because I suck dick, I'm snowboarding!" --Dan Savage

  15. #115
    WestCoastPDR Guest
    The dirt was nice this morning. Got a little wet but the moisture is a welcomed change.


    Mmmmmm. Brown pow for breakfast.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  16. #116
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    4th Annual Backcountry Mixer & BBQ

    Thu Oct 15, 5:30 PM - 8:00 PM

    California Ski Company843 Gilman St., Berkeley, CA



    http://www.meetup.com/snowpals/event...=2&action=rsvp
    Even sometimes when I'm snowboarding I'm like "Hey I'm snowboarding! Because I suck dick, I'm snowboarding!" --Dan Savage

  17. #117
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    On mikes list of bc parking spots he claims that fallen leaf is plowed but gated and should be open to the public. What he doesn't say is that it's plowed these last years only because of an ill fulltime fallen leaf resident who needs access to Barton and it's plowed privately just for that purpose. It never used to be plowed and residents and skiers alike had to sled in. So while I would like to see the gate unlocked in the winter, that won't happen.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpy View Post
    On mikes list of bc parking spots he claims that fallen leaf is plowed but gated and should be open to the public. What he doesn't say is that it's plowed these last years only because of an ill fulltime fallen leaf resident who needs access to Barton and it's plowed privately just for that purpose. It never used to be plowed and residents and skiers alike had to sled in. So while I would like to see the gate unlocked in the winter, that won't happen.
    I understand it is plowed currently at the expense of a resident. Sounds like an ally! I bet they would appreciate it if county or CalTrans choose to plow for all users (bc as well as residents) and opened gate. So it IS happening right now and could potentially continue with the right appeal for resources.
    Even sometimes when I'm snowboarding I'm like "Hey I'm snowboarding! Because I suck dick, I'm snowboarding!" --Dan Savage

  19. #119
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    Feb 2012
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    Truckee, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpy View Post
    It never used to be plowed and residents and skiers alike had to sled in.
    Which I don't think most skiers would have a problem with. But like with Spring Creek, plowing and then gating a road makes ski access more difficult. I think it's completely reasonable to request that regardless of who's paying for it, if a road is going to be plowed then the public be given access. Very different than insisting that the road should be plowed in the first place.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by lepistoir View Post
    I understand it is plowed currently at the expense of a resident. Sounds like an ally! I bet they would appreciate it if county or CalTrans choose to plow for all users (bc as well as residents) and opened gate. So it IS happening right now and could potentially continue with the right appeal for resources.
    Though some of these residents are going to fight because they want the privacy a gated road provides, even if it is cheaper. I know this was an issue with my place in sunnyside which was on a private lane with private plowing, and people using the to access paige meadows. Unreasonable, yeah, but a fact of life.

    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Just got this reply:


    Supervisor Novasel is working on a solution with Caltrans and State Parks and hopes to hold a community meeting on the West Shore in October to discuss this. And, will be holding a community meeting at South Lake Tahoe on October 15th where we can bring this subject up, as well.    


    We appreciate your advocacy, and we will do our best to preserve parking for back country access.
    This is going to be a way more productive forum for solving this. Headcount is really important--a small vocal minority can really direct policy discussion, especially if they are "unopposed". Can you please update with west shore meeting details when you have it? Everybody who can should mobilize for this.

  21. #121
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    May 2008
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    Hearing that Mt Rose and Kirkwood are getting snow. Yippee

  22. #122
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    Mammoth Mountain's social media was blowing up pretty well with lots of photos of snow on the ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  23. #123
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    Nov 2003
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    P-tex, CA
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    Officially more snow than all of last year...heh

    Last edited by skier666; 10-01-2015 at 05:43 PM.

  24. #124
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    Looks purdy when contrasted with the "Golden Brown" we seem to have been seeing a lot of recently. Hills. Lawns. Etc. "Go golden for the Golden State."

    (Seriously though. Cool contrast.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Just got this reply:


    Supervisor Novasel is working on a solution with Caltrans and State Parks and hopes to hold a community meeting on the West Shore in October to discuss this. And, will be holding a community meeting at South Lake Tahoe on October 15th where we can bring this subject up, as well.    


    We appreciate your advocacy, and we will do our best to preserve parking for back country access.
    Rod - could I ask you to please post up the details of these meetings once they are available? This is the first I have heard of potential open forums. Admittedly, I have had some difficulty sorting through the various info channels the past week. In any event, I am glad to hear several agencies would be willing to have a community meeting. I would hope TRPA, as the broader permitting agency in the Basin, would also attend as well.

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