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  1. #76
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    Just here to say that I hope Godzilla delivers for you Mags this year - your overdue! Getafterit!
    The Passion is in the Risk

  2. #77
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    Oct 2008
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    valley of the heart's delight
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahoe Bromide View Post
    I'm going to guess this is going to impact warmer season recreational enthusiasts, like boulderers. There are several small pullouts used to access several bouldering areas north of Emerald Bay. I wonder if that user group is aware of the situation too?
    Is losing public access a general, state-wide problem? I ask because in the bay area, Fremont and EBRPD are conspiring to limit access to Mission Peak. Are other areas affected or are these one-offs? Do we need a California Coastal Commission for non-coastal areas to protect public access to public land?

    The land using public is a dispersed group, hard to organize, doesn't know about or attend meetings, yet needs its interests represented. I've been personally thanked by land managers, simply for showing up as a member of the public. Should likely move the larger access discussion off-thread if there's much interest (PR?).
    10/01/2012 Site was upgraded to 300 baud.

  3. #78
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    ^^^ What's this Fremont/EBRPD deal you speak of?

    Statewide, on foot? No, access issues are not a major problem, IMO. If anything, there are a number of climbing areas that have had access successfully maintained when it looked in danger, or newly-opened to the public after longtime access problems. (E.g. Auburn and Jailhouse.) Can't think of any good counterexamples to that.

    Edit: Not to say there isn't always work to do, but there's no pattern of rollback.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  4. #79
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    Oct 2008
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    NorCal
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    What an unfortunate state of affairs. Thanks to Eric O and Mike S for leading the charge on spreading the word about this. There is certainly a way to balance the water clarity project with the parking for winter recreation. At least CalTrans and other agencies have been receptive in the past several days to the calls and emails.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    167
    Back in 2012, the USFS proposed reducing roadside parking in an effort to encourage use of public transit. At first, they seemed to overlook how this would impact winter access: http://unofficialnetworks.com/2012/0...ct-voice-heard

    Through the public comment process, enough people pointed this out that the USFS included some brief reference to winter access in the draft Record of Decision (a link to the draft is easy to find http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5440902.pdf, but I struck out looking for the final):

    Parking
    We received many comments on the availability of summer and winter parking. While many people would like additional parking, others oppose the creation of more parking areas. This decision would maintain the current volume of summer parking while addressing some of the safety and natural resource concerns related to current roadside parking along basin highways. A
    small increase in parking at developed sites is allowed to accommodate some of the demand; it is limited because significant increases in parking would also increase crowding at popular sites, and could also increase the potential for natural resource damage.
    Our ability to create additional winter parking is constrained by budgets and also by road ownership and jurisdiction. Many of the roads that people would like to see plowed in the winter are city, state, or county roads. The Forest Service is open to collaborative solutions to addressing the challenge of winter parking.


    So maybe the USFS Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit would be willing to spearhead such a collaborative effort? Note there's some issue with "current" vs "additional" in their language, but the spirit of their decision supports continued winter access.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Please let it dump.

    I'm kinda amazed there is not a access fund or surf rider foundation like entity for BC skiing

  7. #82
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalNomad View Post
    Please let it dump.

    I'm kinda amazed there is not a access fund or surf rider foundation like entity for BC skiing
    There is kinda. It's Winter Wildlands Alliance. They contacted Eldo county govt to alert them to this issue and are part of the reason our user group is being listened to. They probably deserve your membership dollars or at least a thank you .
    Even sometimes when I'm snowboarding I'm like "Hey I'm snowboarding! Because I suck dick, I'm snowboarding!" --Dan Savage

  8. #83
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    Nov 2013
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    Had no idea about them, thanks for the heads up! Definitely will be getting a membership.

  9. #84
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    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by lepistoir View Post
    There is kinda. It's Winter Wildlands Alliance. They contacted Eldo county govt to alert them to this issue and are part of the reason our user group is being listened to. They probably deserve your membership dollars or at least a thank you .
    "Kinda" is an important qualifier. Folks should do their homework to decide if WWA is really what they want to support or not.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by travis View Post
    "Kinda" is an important qualifier. Folks should do their homework to decide if WWA is really what they want to support or not.
    I hate homework. Maybe you can elaborate.
    Even sometimes when I'm snowboarding I'm like "Hey I'm snowboarding! Because I suck dick, I'm snowboarding!" --Dan Savage

  11. #86
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    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    ^^^ What's this Fremont/EBRPD deal you speak of?
    http://www.tricityvoice.com/articlef...+504+++TCV.txt

    Ongoing issue for several years with some residents trying to limit/block access. Not skiing related though... Well, there's a chance of skiing a few inches on grass and rock there once in a decade.
    10/01/2012 Site was upgraded to 300 baud.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    http://www.tricityvoice.com/articlef...+504+++TCV.txt

    Ongoing issue for several years with some residents trying to limit/block access. Not skiing related though... Well, there's a chance of skiing a few inches on grass and rock there once in a decade.
    Ahh yes. I did hear something about that a while back. Not that surprising. Sounds a bit like the issue at Rubicon that's been simmering for years. Hopefully doesn't go through.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  13. #88
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    Dec 2006
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    167
    Quote Originally Posted by lepistoir View Post
    I hate homework. Maybe you can elaborate.
    Too much of a can of worms to open up here. Just check out their website and decide for yourself. You may decide it's exactly what you believe in and choose to put your life savings behind them. I'm just pointing out that the organization isn't quite the skiers' corollary to the Access Fund, Surf Rider, IMBA, etc.

  14. #89
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    May 2008
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    Denver/Dillon, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Work with E Blake? More importantly, can you get some more funding to reverse the change? The WQ improvements are related to the Lake Tahoe TMDL for clarity. http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/lahont...dl/lake_tahoe/
    The attorney? No. I work with Native American Tribes. My mentor is a senior attorney and works with her.

    I cant speak to TMDLs or the lake issues but I cannot secure more funding and definitely feel for the situation. I have expressed interest in becoming placed in Tahoe and sadly we have someone placed in Carson City from my team, so it is really unlikely. More likely I could head to Elko or Ely OR east sierras. But that would be years out.

    Keep an eye on this project and if anyone is out there during rain events post removal, keep a record of any impact. You can move mountains with records.
    Someone once told me that I ski like a Scandinavian angel.

  15. #90
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    May 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalNomad View Post
    Please let it dump.

    I'm kinda amazed there is not a access fund or surf rider foundation like entity for BC skiing
    Down to work on that. I have worked a little with Surfrider in the Gulf Coast and can add some nonprofit board experience to the mix.

    Science based advocacy with a bg in environmental management and resource conservation.
    Someone once told me that I ski like a Scandinavian angel.

  16. #91
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    Sep 2011
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    23
    regarding the west shore parking debacle - note it is a Caltrans project, not TRPA's. Eliminating pullouts was an oversight, not a nefarious plot to restrict public land access. As I understand it, last minute design adjustments have been made (in response to public concerns) to pave shoulder areas where possible, and most significantly State Parks has agreed to invest resources to plow the Bliss lot to accommodate winter users.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by travis View Post
    I'm just pointing out that the organization isn't quite the skiers' corollary to the Access Fund, Surf Rider, IMBA, etc.
    To be fair, I don't think anybody's ever found there to be a conflict between motorized climbing and human-powered climbing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  18. #93
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    Dec 2006
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    167
    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    To be fair, I don't think anybody's ever found there to be a conflict between motorized climbing and human-powered climbing.
    Which makes it easy for me to be a supporter of the Access Fund

  19. #94
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    Fair enough. (I've definitely been a member at times as well--including donating to the Black Wall purchase.)

    Keeping things academic, I'm curious where IMBA goes with their e-bike stance. Also curious to see when electric sleds come out and what they're like (I suspect it would be a LONG time before they'll be capable of repeatedly highmarking a steep hill in powder on the same battery).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  20. #95
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    Since we're on the issue of ski access in the Tahoe area, if anybody has had problems with skinning within ski area boundaries in the last several years and wants something changed, feel free to PM me with general description. I recall folks having issues pre-season at Kirkwood and Alpine, post-season at Alpine, etc. Also interested in suggested thoughts on uphill access inbounds during the season too. Trying to get a general sense of where problems have been beyond my general group of people I know and ski with.

    For example, I was initially stoked on SB's uphill pass idea--at least when it was free. Then they started charging for it--e.g. charging people for access to public land when those people are not using their services. (There's a lot of nuance there.) They also do not qualify that with the fact that they are legally required to allow people to skin through the Judah area to access points south of their permit area (e.g. Benson and the crest generally)--with obvious exceptions for safety/avalanche concerns. That's a mitigation requirement mandated by their Judah Expansion EIS a number of years ago based on comments from Snowlands. Their website, for example, says nothing about this. None of the public information they have put out mentions it either. I suspect that if you skinned across the upper part of Judah on the PCT and patrol stopped you without an uphill pass, they'd say OK if you told them you were going to Benson or leaving the boundary. But I honestly have no idea what patrol's been told on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  21. #96
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    Feb 2008
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    Alpental
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  22. #97
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    May 2011
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    Truckee & Nor Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    Since we're on the issue of ski access in the Tahoe area, if anybody has had problems with skinning within ski area boundaries in the last several years and wants something changed, feel free to PM me with general description. I recall folks having issues pre-season at Kirkwood and Alpine, post-season at Alpine, etc. Also interested in suggested thoughts on uphill access inbounds during the season too. Trying to get a general sense of where problems have been beyond my general group of people I know and ski with.
    Obviously pre-season at Alpine Meadows has been an issue. Post-season they were fine with it when that big storm came in on closing day Easter Sunday. There were a ton of people out there that week, especially with the massive lines at Squaw that one day where people had to hike out of Shirley. They've been restricting access pre-season under the premise of not wanting people to interfere with their pre-opening operations and are worried about skiers cutting snow-making hoses, etc. I would say that sounds perfectly reasonable but it didn't seem to be an issue for all of those years prior.

    Does that not hold up legally under their USFS permit? Is that where you're going with this? Because if they're not going to open until December 12th again it would be nice to have the option like we used to before the unfortunate instructor incident a few years back. Plus being able to stick it to KSL would be fun just for the hell of it.

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    CA
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    195
    Hasn't this topic been hashed and then re-hashed? Uphill access is not automatically granted merely because a resort is on public lands. The insurance policy and the lease from NFS are the two primary reasons uphill travel is restricted at resorts. Add in things like safety and screwing up operations and you have several legitimate reasons to bar skinning.
    I know with our recent lean seasons many times the resorts were the only thing going for skinning. I get it. Some resorts are fine with it if a few rules are followed. Is there some new angle in this argument I'm not privvy to?

    For the record, I'd love to be able to skin at more resorts. It's probably worth our time to pay attention to when leases are being re-written and make an attempt to get uphill travel included. I don't know how often this is done though but I but it's not that often.
    Last edited by Tahoe Bromide; 09-30-2015 at 10:09 AM.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    I would say that sounds perfectly reasonable but it didn't seem to be an issue for all of those years prior.
    Save for the employee who died after hitting her head on a rock skiing a preseason storm.

  25. #100
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    ^^ That was the "unfortunate instructor incident" I referred to in my post.

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