Results 26 to 50 of 68
-
09-10-2015, 06:12 PM #26
-
09-10-2015, 06:14 PM #27
130+ flex, Upright, Narrow Heel—what boot am I?
Tecnica inferno
OP why you so needyZone Controller
"He wants to be a pro, bro, not some schmuck." - Hugh Conway
"DigitalDeath would kick my ass. He has the reach of a polar bear." - Crass3000
-
09-10-2015, 06:17 PM #28
130+ flex, Upright, Narrow Heel—what boot am I?
Tecnica R9.3 130 duh!
Last edited by Brianskis; 09-10-2015 at 06:53 PM.
-
09-10-2015, 06:47 PM #29
-
09-11-2015, 11:43 AM #30Registered User
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Posts
- 3,269
Have you tried Atomic Redster 130 ? The non plug has a fairly wide toe box and if you need to enhance the heel hold just throw in a butterfly pad around the Achilles and you will be locked in tight. You can find screaming deals on the older CS series(the red and white ones) if you look around a bit. I would consider that a slightly more upright boot compared to a Salomon or a Lange. You can also do some grinding on the boor board to change your ramp angle a bit.
-
09-11-2015, 12:57 PM #31
-
09-11-2015, 01:15 PM #32
-
09-11-2015, 02:11 PM #33Registered User
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Posts
- 3,269
Sometimes you can just grind the back half of the foot board from the arch back and slightly lower the heel. I know the usual is grinding under the toe for room and increase angle. Just a different way to create a more neutral stance from the ground up. Unfortunately most race boots will have a aggressive stance and the request for a 130-150 flex will point the OP in that direction. Out of the 4-5 race boots I have been in the last 20 years I felt the atomic had the most neutral stance. Salomon-Nordica-Head-Tecnica
-
09-11-2015, 02:26 PM #34Registered User
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Location
- SW CO
- Posts
- 5,588
Huh. If the only difference between the R9.8 and R9.3 is the last width, I doubt this is the answer. But I'll try the R9.8 on again soon to see if it meets the other two criteria better than I thought last time I had it on my foot. In the meantime, could you elaborate on why you suggest the R9.3 over the Lange ZB or Head B2?
@fatnslow: Grinding the back half of the boot board isn't the way to go, but an external toe lift is definitely worth considering. Just gotta grind down toe so it's back to DIN spec.Last edited by auvgeek; 09-11-2015 at 02:40 PM.
"Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
photos
-
09-11-2015, 04:31 PM #35Registered User
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Posts
- 164
From what I've seen and read I think the Lange heel/ankle is wider than the other plugs. IMO it seems you're looking at Head B3/Tecnica 9.3. Inferno R has a nice upright fwd lean, but has a metal shank so its cold, I had to remove mine.
As an aside there is a 27.0 9.3 150 flex tecnica 9.3 for sale at a stellar price. If that's your boot size. I don't know the forward lean though. I've never tried but it seems everything I read that the 9.3s are the lowest overall volume of all of them.
I think it goes:
Tightest
Lange (NOT HEEL)
Tecnica 9.3
Tecnica 9.5/Inferno R
Head B2/3
Scorpion
Tecnica 9.8
Not as tight but still damn tight
-
09-12-2015, 04:20 PM #36Registered User
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Location
- Missoula
- Posts
- 268
@auvgeek any decent race shop should have some different thickness risers, easy to screw something in on the bottom and then router down the top of the toes to the correct height. Not sure if you could find a router at the hardware store that is wide enough yet short enough to work well, I have only played with a boot-specific bit if you are going DIY rather than through a shop. Also don't know enough about foot mechanics to recommend you a stance change, but last winter I was pretty stoked on an in-boot toe lift: maybe like 5mm foam glued to the zeppas under the ball of my foot to effectively drop my heel and get me more planted. Recommended to me by Green Mtn Orthotic lab to help with excessive dorsiflexion, sounds like not what you have going on exactly but hey, something to think on. Bummer you're not happy with the flex on the kryptons, although I still struggle with similar back-of-the-leg/upper boot issues I've been happiest in kryptons vs. anything else including plugs. Whatever you do I would stay far away from a vacuum fit, I think I have covered that elsewhere but it is not, in my experience, a good solution for someone with a low volume foot.
-
09-12-2015, 04:23 PM #37Registered User
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Location
- Missoula
- Posts
- 268
Oh and also- have you tried contacting any manufacturers to get forward lean numbers? I'd imagine they could give you exact numbers on their plugs.
-
09-12-2015, 04:27 PM #38
-
09-14-2015, 10:27 AM #39
+1 - I snagged a pair online for $200 bucks. I've had the Lang 130RS and found the heel retention on the Atomic to be greater along with a stiffer forward flex. I also thought it was significantly stiffer laterally. However, I do have fat ( D+) feet and I was able to make the 98mm last work with minimal bootwork. So it might not be the best if you are looking for super narrow. That said, they do make the Redsters in a WC last of 95mm and 93mm.
-
11-11-2015, 09:22 PM #40Registered User
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Location
- SW CO
- Posts
- 5,588
So I decided to go with a Lange ZB. Tried on the RS140 and ZJ+ at my local shop (Ski Center in the DC-area, which seems like a great shop), and the Lange boots fit the best of the boots they had available. Sure, I wish they were narrower in the heel/ankle and wider in the toes (I have D-width feet), but the forward lean felt pretty perfect. Also, Lange's plug liner seems outstanding, and it was a huge selling point for me. It's very low-volume, has a ZipFit-esque neoprene toe box that extends to the styloid process, and just fits really well. It honestly seems on-par with the ZipFit Gara, which the shop also had available for me to fondle and try on (no molding, though), but the Lange is lower volume. Honestly, I'd upgrade from the RS to the WC series just for the liner. But I haven't tried any other true plug boots, so maybe I'm easily excitable.
Anyway, the shop was gonna check on the final price with their Lange rep and call me before placing the order for a pair of ZBs. But after calling the shop once a week for about a month, I got fed up and bought some 2013 NOS ZBs for $250 on eBay. Received them this evening, and the liner isn't nearly as nice. Bummer. I can return them and purchase the 2016 ZB through the shop, or I can throw out the stock liner and replace it with a ZipFit.
Would you racer guys recommend purchasing 2016 ZBs from the shop and skiing the stock liner until it falls apart (~$600 + $350 for a ZipFit in X years) or buying a ZipFit Gara for the 2013 ZBs ($250 shells + $350 ZipFit + ~$150 for boot fitting = ~$750). Does anyone know how the Lange new plug liner really compares to a ZipFit Gara and how long will it last?Last edited by auvgeek; 11-11-2015 at 09:38 PM.
"Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
photos
-
11-11-2015, 10:01 PM #41
-
12-21-2015, 11:33 AM #42
auvgeek, now that you have the ZB's I'd be very interested to hear how they compare in fit (particularly instep height) and flex to your Scorpion 130's.
Like you, I'm in the Scorpions, and am considering switching to the ZB. However, my issue with the Scorpions is different from yours. I have no problem with the forward lean, perhaps because I've gas-pedaled them by 3 mm, and my bindings don't have an unusually high delta (4 mm delta, giving me a net delta of 1 mm). My predicament is that the throat of the lower shell on this boot curves more sharply upward than most; this creates pressure at the front crease of my ankles that leaves them sore after skiing. After about three straight weeks of skiing they became sore enough that it was concerning. My fitter says this may not be adjustable. Also, while I really like the boot's stiff flex (bootfitters_dot_com says they're beefier than a Lange RS140 or Head 140RS), including for moguls, they feel a bit brick-like to me underfoot (the ZB may be no different in this regard).
I'm also curious how the ZB's fit compares to that of the ZJ+ you tried --- I understand that, while they use the same last, the ZJ+ is "pre-punched" in problem areas, kind of like the Scorpions.Last edited by Physicist; 12-21-2015 at 10:45 PM.
-
12-23-2015, 05:19 AM #43
-
12-23-2015, 09:50 AM #44full throttle
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Location
- slc
- Posts
- 474
I'm in inferno 130s with the intuition pro tongue. That liner is the shit, my heel is locked the fuck in there. Solid. They do however, occupy a fair amount of volume, especially in the instep (for me). The lower barely overlaps.
-
12-23-2015, 12:00 PM #45Registered User
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Location
- SW CO
- Posts
- 5,588
Still in the process of fitting the ZBs. Man are they low volume in the forefoot. The heel is narrower than the Scorpions, but it doesn't feel as deep. The deepness of the Scorpion's heel is amazing—I skied them with the stock 15/16 ZB liner, and it's almost too much heel hold in the achilles region without pressure on either side of the heel.
I'll take a look at the angle of the lower shell and let you know. I don't personally have that problem at all.
The ZJ+ may work if your foot isn't 104 mm wide. I couldn't personally tell a difference since all I felt in both boots was serious pain (before modification).
Regarding forward lean: I use zero-delta bindings, and my boot fitter looked at my stance in them and decided to "stand them up." I am no longer a fan of this idea: when you stand the cuff more upright, you obviously change the volume of the ankle and cuff of the boot. I can't really buckle them enough to eliminate a fair amount of play between my shin and the boot, and I think that's the cause of pain in my peroneous longus. Yeah, I tried a tongue shim...didn't work for me.
I don't understand the "brick-like underfoot" complaint. Could you explain a bit more what you'd like to be different?"Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
photos
-
12-23-2015, 01:56 PM #46
Thanks for your reply auvgeek. How does the stiffness of the ZB's compare to that of your Scorpions? I'm wondering if I could get away with a ZA (easier entry/exit, plus that gives me the option to go with a ZA+; they don't make a ZB+), or if I need the ZB to get comparable stiffness to my Scorpions.
Also would be interested to hear how their instep heights compare -- unless that's what you meant by "angle of the lower shell" (?).
And of course, if you've skied in them, I'd love to hear your impressions of how they ski vs. the Scorpions.
By "brick-like" I mean they lack a certain sensitivity for the snow surface. But that's not a big deal for me; my bigger concern is the pressure against the front of my ankle.
Regarding making your Scorpions more upright: Do you know the number of degrees by which you need to reduce the forward lean? As mentioned above, gas-pedaling might work, but you'd need (assuming an average-sized boot) about 5 mm of toe lift per one-degree reduction in forward lean. 5 mm will make a big change to your stance underfoot, so you could compensate for that by increasing the zeppa (bootboard angle) by one degree. If you bought them new, your Scorpions should have come with two sets of bootboards, yellow ones with a zeppa of about 1.5 degrees, and a more ramped set that is either red or white (I forget). If you're running the yellow ones, you could gas-pedal your Scorpions, and then swap in the steeper bootboards (possibly after grinding them, since they might add too much ramp -- I'm assuming a few extra degrees) to put your foot's ramp angle back to where it was. Since this is an expensive and involved experiment, I'd start by standing in the boots indoors and putting successively thicker shims under the toe to see if you could get the forward lean reduction you're looking for within the limits of how much your boots can be gas-pedaled (don't know what the max is, but you can probably get a lot thru a combination of raising the toe and lowering the heel, thought the latter requires building up the top of the heel lug w/ epoxy to maintain DIN, so you'd want to first see if you can achieve it with toe lifting alone). If you can, then put in an equal-thickness tapered shim between your boot and liner and see if that puts your foot angle back to where it was. Note that this will reduce instep height, and move your ankle bones a bit higher in the pockets. But if it works, you could then gas-pedal the boot, and grind the more-ramped bootboard down to match.
One other option for you would be to call Dalbello and ask them if the new version of the Scorpion they'll be introducing for 16/17 (which is based on the geometry of their current WC boot) will have a more upright cuff, but otherwise fit the same.
Finally, if you need to take up space between the shin and the front of the boot, a foam tongue is a great option (plus they're incredibly stiff, and can be quite thick if you've got a decent amount of space to take up; together, this eliminates any pressure point you may have at the top of the shell cuff; note that they do not add to the stiffness of the boot). I use a Conformable foam tongue and a thin lace-up race liner in my Scorpions.Last edited by Physicist; 12-23-2015 at 03:18 PM.
-
12-24-2015, 12:54 AM #47
what's a ZJ?
-
12-24-2015, 06:41 AM #48
-
12-25-2015, 06:59 PM #49Registered User
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Location
- SW CO
- Posts
- 5,588
IMO, stiffness can only be effectively tested on snow, so I'll refrain from commenting until I get them both on snow. Feel about the same in my living room.
I'll look at the instep heights, too. By "angle of the throat," I meant:
shroomenheimer: ZJ = 120 flex, ZA = 130, ZB = 140, and ZC 160. (But even the ZJ is supposedly stiffer than the RS 140). The + indicates pre-punching, and is only available for the ZJ and ZA boots."Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
photos
-
12-25-2015, 07:31 PM #50
Thanks. Interesting that you've heard that about the stiffness of the ZJ vs. the RS 140. I spoke to a fellow in Lange's race dept., and he told me that the RS 140 was between the ZA and ZB in stiffness -- while someone at a shop that sells both the RS and Z-series boots told me that the ZB would be as stiff as the RS 140, because the flex numbers mean the same in both lines (I'm inclined to believe the former over the latter). Also, while the A-flex comes in both a ZA and a ZA+, I've been told that that the ZJ has only been made in the pre-punched "92+" last, i.e., that all ZJ's are effectively ZJ+'s, including models from previous years that were labeled as just "ZJ".
Bookmarks