What's the best credit card deal today?

[alpinevibes]

I’m assuming you’ve done the math, but does it work out to be worth it to have 4 cards? I assume they all have fees (maybe an incorrect assumption) but that adds up

I was in Washington so mainly flew Alaska or delta. Now I’m in San Diego so that may change but I haven’t been here long enough to know

Edit: looks like it’s southwest as the major airline in San Diego and then a 4 way tie between United, delta, American, and Alaska

Edit 2: So since I fly to the northwest a lot (mainly Alaska and delta) and I already have an Alaska card, it would make sense to get an Amex because they partner with delta. Am I on the right track?

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With kids now, I'm not as on top of the churn game as I should be (4 tickets to buy now...), so this is by no means a constant monthly happening. But big picture: we time it such that we can meet the spend easily and as my post about card options noted yesterday, a lot of mid-level cards don't charge an annual fee. But even paying $95 to get 50,000pts is a massive value. Those points are worth $800-1500+ for us. We never carry a balance and I call and cancel cards with an annual fee (or free first year) when the year is up. If they offer to waive the fee for the 2nd year, I may keep it open to maintain/increase your credit score's available credit and lower your credit utilization ratio.

I agree, Amex is great and has high value for MR points and good airline transfer partners for you with Delta and Virgin Atlantic. I don't love the cost-to-value on the Amex Platinum currently (80,000pts with $695 annual), But the Amex Green is offering 60,000pts for $150 annual (so-so deal) and you could combine that with a 40,000mi free on the Delta Gold Amex. Opening those two cards only requires $5,000 in spend in 6mo. You'd walk with 110,000pts for $150, come August.

Otherwise, if San Diego has good hopper flights on United or AA up to LAX, that opens up a ton of easy options for booking multi-leg mileage seats through those programs and their cards.

- consider getting both personal and business cards. If you sell something on ebay, it’s a “business”. But remember about meeting min spend

All of this, but especially this. Major bonuses for pennies on the dollar on the business cards. Ink Preferred is the gold mine.

Impact of new loans on credit score is frequently overstated, but if you’re sub 750 it’s a good thing to consider.

Excellent point re: not paying interest or fees and taking full advantage of grace periods. BUT paying off before statement cycle date doesn’t do anything. It hinges on when they report which may or may not have anything to do with your billing cycle, and it has nothing to do with when you pay but rather how it impacts your OVERALL utilization rate when they report. Keep utilization as low as possible if you’re applying for credit.

Also, any impact around utilization (what percentage of available credit you’re using) is right now and right now only. Utilization has no memory. Running high utilization this month? Your score might get dinged this month. Pay it off next month? It’s like it never happened.

Agreed, though my understanding is that some people claim that the utilization is by credit reporting agencies when the statement is processed. If you pay the balance before the statement closes and the statement shows a zero balance, the claim is that your monthly calculated utilization stays as low as possible. I've never gone down that rabbit hole and am fine with my 830+ score with churning and closing cards.

Am now in a lounge in the airport in Vienna (free, courtesy of Cap One). And tired, because it's 4 am Pacific time for me...

One item that wasn't mentioned recently: card points (AmEx, Citi, Cap One, probably others I'm not thinking of) vanish if you close the account holding the points - so keep that in mind if you go that route, and decide you don't want to renew a high annual fee card after the first year and SUB. AmEx has a no annual fee Everyday card that is a good one to hold just for parking MR points. So you could, for example, earn a big SUB on an AmEx Platinum card, and also open an Everyday card, then later close the Platinum - and all your points will be maintained, since the Everyday card is a MR point card.

Airline and hotel points cards transfer the points into your personal account once a statement closes, so you will not lose those points if you close the associated card later. They may have other triggers to keep points alive, such as earn or redeem within X months. That's usually pretty easy to do, just keep track of it.

This for sure. I keep that AMEX Everyday and a Chase Freedom specifically as placeholders for points if I need to close cards. I haven't spent on those cards in years, but they sit as a placeholder and each maintain $20k of credit toward my utilization.

[406]

I’m assuming you’ve done the math, but does it work out to be worth it to have 4 cards? I assume they all have fees (maybe an incorrect assumption) but that adds up

I was in Washington so mainly flew Alaska or delta. Now I’m in San Diego so that may change but I haven’t been here long enough to know

Edit: looks like it’s southwest as the major airline in San Diego and then a 4 way tie between United, delta, American, and Alaska

Edit 2: So since I fly to the northwest a lot (mainly Alaska and delta) and I already have an Alaska card, it would make sense to get an Amex because they partner with delta. Am I on the right track?

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I did a lot of flying for a few years from San Diego and did Delta and AK air cards. SW does free bags, so never thought it was worth having. AK air has lots of nonstop options near skiing these days from SAN...GEG, JAC, BZN, BOI, HDN, RDM, SMF, SLC. For Japan there was a SAN to Tokyo nonstop, that was codeshare with AK air, they might have restarted post covid?

[Mustonen]

Agreed, though my understanding is that some people claim that the utilization is by credit reporting agencies when the statement is processed. If you pay the balance before the statement closes and the statement shows a zero balance, the claim is that your monthly calculated utilization stays as low as possible. I've never gone down that rabbit hole and am fine with my 830+ score with churning and closing cards.

Cutting the credit report file and cutting the billing cycle are different processes that can and often do happen at the same time but don’t have to. The key is to figure out when they report and follow that if you’re in a spot where it’s actually going to make a difference.

To your point, nobody is going to care if you have an 835 or an 832 and probably not an 810. Most risk based pricing schedules set their top tier at 780 or lower. 800+ are sort of shitty prospects because they don’t borrow a lot and are thin margin and aren’t going to bring you much with fee income.

[jm2e]

The Google estimates the value of 10,000 Amex Reward points at around $67 bucks.

I’m still curious about the redemption hassle with indirect points. Like using AmEx points to buy United Airlines tickets. What if I don’t have enough points for both myself and the wife? Do I have to make the purchases on two different websites and pay United doesn’t split us up?


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[alpinevibes]

The Google estimates the value of 10,000 Amex Reward points at around $67 bucks.

I'd guess that a vast majority of people use their MR points as redemptions for statement credit, gift cards or to purchase items at full MSRP via points through the AMEX shopping portal. When you factor all that out, the value probably drops below $.01 per point.

If you're using 25,000 MR points to transfer to United for a basic economy roundtrip ticket, that will typically be a $200-800 ticket at a cash price. When you jump to international tickets: 35-45,000 for South America or 60-80,000 for Europe or Asia, those are typically $1000-3000+ round trip prices. We almost never use miles for domestic tickets, unless it's short-haul Aspen to LAX flights. The real value is in wrangling expensive international itineraries for the cost of taxes and the free miles/points accrued from a signup bonus. We've booked 80,000mi r/t itineraries that were priced at $8000-10,000 in some cases.

I’m still curious about the redemption hassle with indirect points. Like using AmEx points to buy United Airlines tickets. What if I don’t have enough points for both myself and the wife? Do I have to make the purchases on two different websites and pay United doesn’t split us up?

It's pretty quick and seamless to transfer. If you don't end up with enough miles in your United account to book a certain ticket, you can buy miles or pay part with cash. For me, the limited hassle of opening a free new card (say a United Explorer) and meeting the spend and banking an extra 40-60k miles gives you the buffer to hopefully weather those times when you need more miles than you thought, etc.

[jm2e]

Does that mean you’re using United miles earned with a United card? Or does that mean you’re transferring AmEx miles directly into your United Mileage Plus account? Or does that mean you call United (or AmEx?) and buy a ticket over the phone and then negotiate how to cover the shortage?

Sorry if I sound a bit obtuse. It’s because I’m obtuse.

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[bagtagley]

Re: Chase Sapphire Preferred, they just ended an 80k promotion. If you’re not in a hurry, might be worth waiting for that to come back around. I took advantage of that bonus and received the points a couple days after meeting the spend requirement. I’ll double check the timing, but I don’t think it was at the end of my statement period. I went with that because I’ve hit my lifetime bonus limit with Amex, Chase Preferred CS is excellent, and you can churn Chase bonuses. I also want to have flexibility with airlines and hotel chains.

That’s my only fee-based card. Worth it for a grand worth of travel, but I’ll probably cancel before the first year is up. 5% back only applies to travel booked through their portal, which is fine, but availability can be limited and its not always the best price. 3% back otherwise which is the same as the Costco card and Costco Travel has some good deals and great support.

[alpinevibes]

Does that mean you’re using United miles earned with a United card? Or does that mean you’re transferring AmEx miles directly into your United Mileage Plus account? Or does that mean you call United (or AmEx?) and buy a ticket over the phone and then negotiate how to cover the shortage?

Sorry if I sound a bit obtuse. It’s because I’m obtuse.

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All good, in general I’m accumulating United miles through opening United Explorer or United Business cards, and also through opening Chase Sapphires, whose Chase UR points can be transferred seamlessly to United Mileage Plus accounts. We generally sit and hold our UR points until we’re ready to book a United ticket then transfer them over.

If you weren’t to have enough miles for an entire ticket, United (and most legacy carriers) offer a Miles+Dollars option. It’s not as great of a value compared to solely miles, but it’s a possibility. And you could also choose to buy miles from United to add into your account before getting a ticket.

Specifically for United: you can’t transfer directly from AMEX Membership Rewards because they’re not an airline partner. However you can transfer MR points to AirCanada, Kris and ANA who are Star Alliance partners with United and through whose milage programs you could book a United flight if need be. But that’s a bit more complicated.

[Lvovsky]

Alpinevibes is thoroughly on top of this. +1 on everything he says.

I’ve been churning cards for 10-12 years. It’s not a sprint game. And it does pay off on the long haul business class trips. But if you can travel economy, they miles will stretch for many more trips.

[EWG]

Hey - anybody know what the right answer is for my college kid student to get their first credit card? Bank One? Discover?

[Mustonen]

Probably won’t run enough volume through it to do much with rewards. Something with a low enough rate that they won’t get raked over the coals if they carry a balance, which is in violation of rule #1 (outside of emergencies). Something they can keep for the next 25 years as their oldest/longest line.

[EWG]

Probably won’t run enough volume through it to do much with rewards. Something with a low enough rate that they won’t get raked over the coals if they carry a balance, which is in violation of rule #1 (outside of emergencies). Something they can keep for the next 25 years as their oldest/longest line.

Problem is they have no credit, and all the student cards have super high interest rates - of course. And that's fine. It's a starter card. Just wondering which student card is recommended. I keep coming across Discover and CapitalOne as the best options.

[alpinevibes]

Probably won’t run enough volume through it to do much with rewards. Something with a low enough rate that they won’t get raked over the coals if they carry a balance, which is in violation of rule #1 (outside of emergencies). Something they can keep for the next 25 years as their oldest/longest line.

I'd look at one of these options: https://www.nerdwallet.com/best/cred...ollege-student

The Bank of America® Travel Rewards credit card for Students. 18mo 0% APR which is a nice fallback if they make mistakes early on. If you can help them meet the $1000 spend in 90 days, the 25,000pts offer is nice on a free card and would get them most of the way towards a roundtrip flight or something.

The Discover it® Student chrome seems really basic and easy, and requires no credit score. It has an intro 6mo 0% APR period which is nice.

[Pinned]

In addition to what alpinevibes posted, consider getting them an authorized user card under one of your existing accounts if you want to jump start their credit. My folks did this for me and it certainly helped make it easier to get approved for my own card later on - just be careful about late payments / carrying a balance.

[altasnob]

No wonder our country is so full of anxiety and depression. We're all too worried about what credit card to get and use to maximize our return. If our country regulated the ridiculous credit card fees that these companies charge (average 1.8% and sometimes as high as 4%) we wouldn't have this problem. Europe caps credit card transaction fees to .3%. Only rich people have the time and financial ability to play this ridiculous credit card game as they globe trot Earth on polluting jets. The poor get fucked and are the ones paying for all your airline miles. Typical American bullshit.

[El Chupacabra]

No wonder our country is so full of anxiety and depression. We're all too worried about what credit card to get and use to maximize our return. If our country regulated the ridiculous credit card fees that these companies charge (average 1.8% and sometimes as high as 4%) we wouldn't have this problem. Europe caps credit card transaction fees to .3%. Only rich people have the time and financial ability to play this ridiculous credit card game as they globe trot Earth on polluting jets. The poor get fucked and are the ones paying for all your airline miles. Typical American bullshit.

I raise an aperol spritz to your peasantry.

[jm2e]

One of the things that’s always driven me away from dealing with airline points cards is the seemingly nonsensical points vs cash algorithm.
Currently looking a couple different trips this fall to Las Vegas, Denver, Chicago. The multiplier from cash yo points ranges from 25 points/$1 up to 65 points/$1.
It’s fucking maddening.


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[alpinevibes]

No wonder our country is so full of anxiety and depression. We're all too worried about what credit card to get and use to maximize our return. If our country regulated the ridiculous credit card fees that these companies charge (average 1.8% and sometimes as high as 4%) we wouldn't have this problem. Europe caps credit card transaction fees to .3%. Only rich people have the time and financial ability to play this ridiculous credit card game as they globe trot Earth on polluting jets. The poor get fucked and are the ones paying for all your airline miles. Typical American bullshit.

I agree on regulating fees, but I don't think very many people - and absolutely NOT rich people - are concerned/aware of CC rewards. I'm only concerned and playing the game because I'm not rich.

[altasnob]

Most poor people don't even have credit cards and are stuck with debit cards. It's not as if we are making money playing this credit card points game. Businesses who pay this 1.8% fee pass it on to consumers. So everything in America is 1.8% more than what it should be. You are just attempting to claw back money that you have already wrongfully paid. Some are good at the game, some are not (and the poor don't even play the game). If you forget to close one of those "free for a year" accounts before they tag you with a renewal fee, you've wiped away all the benefit you would have received. That's why I say it is anxiety inducing.

What I would like to see is an AI powered bot that will open and close thousand of credit cards for us, and will automatically chose the most advantageous credit card for each specific purchase. So I no longer have to stress about this stuff and can claw back as much as that 1.8% as possible. You know this is coming at some point.

[allmountainsnowskating]

1. Get the Chase United Explorer Card right now during the no fee for first year promo and get 80k points.
2. Refer your travel companion to the card and get an additional 80k points.
3. Use the points to book the trip.
4. Use the card perks during your trip.
5. Cancel the card before 1 year is up and you pay annual fee

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[jm2e]

1. Get the Chase United Explorer Card right now during the no fee for first year promo and get 80k points.
2. Refer your travel companion to the card and get an additional 80k points.
3. Use the points to book the trip.
4. Use the card perks during your trip.
5. Cancel the card before 1 year is up and you pay annual fee
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1. Explore Card Currently offering 60k points. I've never seen 80k except with the $525/yr Club card.
2. What is this? Google search shows nothing other than the 10K you can get for referring 1 friend up to 10 different friends, which is essentially squat.

[Lvovsky]

In addition to what alpinevibes posted, consider getting them an authorized user card under one of your existing accounts if you want to jump start their credit. My folks did this for me and it certainly helped make it easier to get approved for my own card later on - just be careful about late payments / carrying a balance.

This is the way

[alpinevibes]

1. Get the Chase United Explorer Card right now during the no fee for first year promo and get 80k points.
2. Refer your travel companion to the card and get an additional 80k points.
3. Use the points to book the trip.
4. Use the card perks during your trip.
5. Cancel the card before 1 year is up and you pay annual fee

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Agreed. Very good deal right now. 90k after the spend should get you almost anywhere.

Alta - we all know that the poor don’t have CC’s but I would say the 1-2% *potentially* higher prices could easily be overshadowed by the cost of overdraft fees, CC interest, payday loans and other financial burdens usually facing the disadvantaged. Again - I agree that the system needs to change, and despite being someone who has taken big advantage of the points/miles game, I think the end of high reward CC’s would benefit everyone.

But… we’re just cogs in the wheel here in America and until Wall Street changes their tune, I’ll keep taking free money from said banks. My $1000 worth of points is a pittance against the 100th highest exec bonus at any of the biggest banks.

[Mustonen]

Most poor people don't even have credit cards and are stuck with debit cards. It's not as if we are making money playing this credit card points game. Businesses who pay this 1.8% fee pass it on to consumers. So everything in America is 1.8% more than what it should be. You are just attempting to claw back money that you have already wrongfully paid. Some are good at the game, some are not (and the poor don't even play the game). If you forget to close one of those "free for a year" accounts before they tag you with a renewal fee, you've wiped away all the benefit you would have received. That's why I say it is anxiety inducing.

What I would like to see is an AI powered bot that will open and close thousand of credit cards for us, and will automatically chose the most advantageous credit card for each specific purchase. So I no longer have to stress about this stuff and can claw back as much as that 1.8% as possible. You know this is coming at some point.

Nobody is getting rich off of interchange net of fraud and processing expense. You’ll just shift around how this shit gets paid.

Shoulder shrug. Go you.

[Danno]

Experiences with Citi's "ThankYou" points? There's an offer of 75k points for a $4k/3 mo spend right now. But checking Doctor of Credit doesn't really say much, and I don't know how well the "ThankYou" points translate to dollars or miles.