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  1. #2326
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    I think Harvey prefers hot chicks, so yer good mtngirl.
    crab in my shoe mouth

  2. #2327
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    Guess I should have said "It will pass if you are willing to let it pass". I have found there is a benefit to letting go of things that cannot be changed (i.e. the past) and not giving credence to on going BS. The power to heal lies within each of us as Buster illustrated.

    As other's have said - jerks/assholes/cads/etc. exist and always will and to some extent are fueled and bolstered by the negative attention they get. A prefer a blank stare, blink, then getting on with what I was doing. Not going to waste my time giving them the reaction they want BTJM.

    If you are truly concerned about younger women not having the wherewithal to navigate the asshole infested waters of life perhaps you would find it cathartic to participate in a mentoring program like Big Sisters.
    End of thread.

    Please?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  3. #2328
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    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    I absolutely understand that women have been and still are treated inequitably. I work hard at being conscious and careful about my thinking about and treatment of all women, and all people. I am so sorry that you and your family suffered such horrible abuse at the hands of an unhealthy man. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. It's a terrible, damaging thing to be abused no matter who or what gender you are. But that story is not what the men posting their feelings about the system here is about. The guys who write here about their suffering seem, for the most part, to be conscious, aware, thoughtful, loving, devoted spouses and fathers.

    I'd argue your statement that your generation was the first for it being normal for women to have careers. My generation, one considerably farther down the age range than yours, was all over that shit. Most of my contemporaries and myself have very talented, capable and financially productive wives. Decisions are made with sacrifices from both spouses to prioritize child-rearing over money.

    There is no hatred of women in my thinking or writing. From the men who are in the midst of their marital shitstorms here I don't hear any hatred either. I hear sadness and grief over what they've lost emotionally, and incredulity that they gave it their all, did all the things they thought they were supposed to do (traditional and non-traditional), were emotionally abused or otherwise betrayed by their spouses, and STILL often find themselves alone in a shitty apartment, booted out of their homes, unable to spend enough time with their children, and paying all the bills for everyone still living in the house that used be their home. Again I acknowledge these stories can be told from both genders and no one, male or female, should have to be in that position. This is generally a thread about TGR male participants' experiences.

    Don't all lives matter? Men and women? Isn't the goal equality, true parity? So, yes, as much as women deserve and are legitimately entitled to be treated better and have those conversations, no one ever talks about what men go through as fathers and spouses and men. We have absolutely different issues facing us, and certainly not sexual objectification, the impact of which I can hardly begin to imagine, but we have our shit too that we keep to ourselves and about which you don't see headlines on the magazines in the checkout line. We feel like we'll be accused of misogyny if we talk about it, which clearly, is what happens as evidenced here.

    Those issues are as real as yours. So yes, male lives matter as much as any lives matter.

    Lastly, as much as you have suffered - and I believe you have and I am deeply compassionate for you - you (and many other commenters) have not been a man (of reasonable consciousness, self-awareness, devotion to family, healthy state of mind) who has been abandoned or betrayed in spite of best efforts to be that ideal husband that is written about by feminists then faces the system making them feel even more abandoned and betrayed.

    None of this makes anyone right or wrong. What is wrong is diminishing someone's pain by invalidating what they feel, and being lectured by people who, again, don't know shit about what they're experiencing.
    Thanks for an objective post.

    I share my experiences because it was truly off the chart, and I have not even spoken of the worst parts. I do not want any man, or woman on this board to make the same mistakes and suffer the same consequences. People may not take me serious, or may laugh it off as we all do when it has not happened to us yet, or worse, start judging people without any experience themselves, but if I save someone in here even one dollar, or prepare them for something they may not be emotional prepared for, then I don’t give fuck.

    B Bear, I am 45, your situation is unique, and I was actually an at home father myself for my kids first three yrs. But the courts are as they say 20 yrs behind on everything, which means women always have priority as the primary, which means men pay. It’s about bringing the courts up to speed on these changes not me. I challenge anyone to tell me differently and why I have to be insulted (not you bear) to point out the obvious.

    The only point I try to make in here is when shit goes south, some people do what they have to do and ask questions later, and some don’t even know what the fuck that means. Which is why these stories are often so painful.


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  4. #2329
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    End of thread.

    Please?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Why? People can navigate all sorts of shit and succeed and have good lives.

    It doesn't make it ok.

  5. #2330
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    Why? People can navigate all sorts of shit and succeed and have good lives.

    It doesn't make it ok.
    Now see... there is the issue. Life is not right or wrong/okay or not. It is hard and full of pitfalls and we are merely grasping in the dark. The goal is to keep stumbling forward.

    (sorry PNWB)
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  6. #2331
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    The thing is it's the small, insidious comments that are the most harmful. They come from everywhere and they just barely cross a line where the commenter can claim innocence, but the shape attitudes and perceptions.
    You're talking about micro aggressions. When I've brought up micro aggressions and how they a affect POC you have no time for it. If I wanted to waste my time I could find posts where you said people just need to get thicker skin and that if you didn't mean anything by it they should let it go, etc...

    You've made many great arguments against misogyny and mistreatment if women in the last few days.

    Replace woman with POC in your posts and you would be arguing vehemently against them.

  7. #2332
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    Now see... there is the issue. Life is not right or wrong/okay or not. It is hard and full of pitfalls and we are merely grasping in the dark. The goal is to keep stumbling forward.

    (sorry PNWB)
    Sorry. That's a huge copout.

  8. #2333
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    Sorry. That's a huge copout.
    It's time to take a break from this thread for a little while. You're lashing out and attacking people and ideas that don't deserve it.

  9. #2334
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  10. #2335
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    Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

    Jesus Christ this thread has been seriously derailed. People come in here to talk about their divorces. Spare us your opinions on experiences you’ve not had, and just express your condolences.

    I am posting the “list” one more time and then fucking off.

    Don’t get all super sensitive because it’s origin is from a mens website, woman should read it too. And spare me your shock, you are not supposed to understand it if you’ve never gone through it.

    http://forum.mensdivorce.com/viewtopic.php?t=13374


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  11. #2336
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    Worth a repost

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    I have a flimsy idea about how shitty her life was and how truly difficult it is being a parent and the best thing to do is to give compassion and empathy. I will not and cannot hold what happened to me against my mom nor can I project that onto womankind as a whole. In many, many regards it was a great thing.

    So, that's what I weaponize, compassion and empathy and yeah, it's really fucking difficult to keep that strategy in the face of all the hostility, narcissism and exclusionist prancing assholes that populate the world. Lots of times I'm too tired or stressed to make the effort to extend compassion but I'm very rarely in a mood to dish out the terms of abuse like misogynist asshole, bitch, irrational human.
    ^^ Thanks for sharing Buster. I don't know you well but the bits you show every now & then serve as good reminders on how to make a positive impact. I'll go back to working on that last sentence.

    And vibes to oft.

  12. #2337
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSilverSurfer View Post
    You're talking about micro aggressions. When I've brought up micro aggressions and how they a affect POC you have no time for it. If I wanted to waste my time I could find posts where you said people just need to get thicker skin and that if you didn't mean anything by it they should let it go, etc...

    You've made many great arguments against misogyny and mistreatment if women in the last few days.

    Replace woman with POC in your posts and you would be arguing vehemently against them.
    Honestly, I have a hard time taking you seriously because of how you have treated me in the past.

    I don't like the word microaggression and while I agree there are a lot of parallels between our arguments the biggest thing that bothers me about your people of color arguments is there aren't workable solutions except white people have been oppressors.

    Like the banana incident. Say your piece, explain yourself, and then the offender apologized. Move forward and try to do better next time.

    I suppose I feel like your take is that poc are so terribly oppressed that they cannot succeed. I want to hear them powering up. I want to hear concrete ways that barriers can be broken.

    I'm willing to listen, just like I would like to be listened to. I'm willing to apologize for my part if I had one in making someone feel marginalized and I'm willing to support efforts to break down barriers.

    I'm a woman. I'm talking about my experiences.

    You are not a person of color so it's hard for me to get behind your argument because it isn't yours. It's your interpretation of your wife's experiences.

  13. #2338
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    I'm sorry the discussion of sexism has been so emotionally painful for the guys on this thread.

    All the women I know have experienced the biases and poor treatment talked about in this thread. Some form of it happens every day for women. Recently, I was questioned at a border crossing when I was traveling because I had put myself rather than my spouse as head of household on the customs form. They thought it should be his name. How dare I think I could be head of household when I have a man in my life. When I applied for a Global Entry card, the US immigration official told me that I needed to bring my birth certificate and my husband in to vouch for my identify because I don't share my spouse's name, which is totally not required. He would never have questioned a man's right to his name. I had already presented him with the required information. He just wanted to exert his power over me because I didn't conform to his personal idea of the rules. I stood in his line for 45 minutes. I kept smiling politely and waiting until his line got so long that he stamped my paperwork because he was embarrassed by the length of the line. It's the small day-to-day things that remind women they're not considered equal citizens.

    These a just a few examples of sexism women experience every day. Don't even get me started on the men who think it's their right to stare at and judge my boobs every day. Maybe some of the guys on this thread can help me find some shirts that will hide my body. /sarcasm Quite of few guys on this thread post on the NSFW threads. I wonder if that's where they hone their skills for telling women how to dress appropriately. Also, think about some of the TGR alias names and avatars on this very thread. They scream sexism. The Weinstein thread is full of sexist and disparaging comments from men about Weinstein's soon to be ex wife.

    I hope that as a nation we wake up to the biases against women that run the gambit from rape to divorce settlements that result in a 41% decline in financial assets for women (http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-699). Sexism includes day-to-day disparagement of women combined with unequal pay. Today, even contraception is under attack.

    Oh, and I'm tired of the insinuations that women who talk about sexism must be crazy. Men use that tactic to shut women up, and it's belittling.

    Most women I know have been sexually assaulted at least once. #metoo

    Sorry for your all your pain.
    Keep it off my wave...Soundgarden

  14. #2339
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    Thank you cloudpeak.

  15. #2340
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    Sorry. That's a huge copout.
    No it's not. It is refusing to be a victim or allow others to control how I feel or live.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  16. #2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    Sorry. That's a huge copout.
    Not in my eyes. I see it as refusing to be a victim or allow others to control how I feel or what I do. It's how I've chosen to live and I'm quite happy with it. <shrug>
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  17. #2342
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    No it's not. It is refusing to be a victim or allow others to control how I feel or live.
    And denying that a problem exists while attempting to invalidate others who have suffered due to said problem.

    To be clear, other than my leg being broken, my life is pretty great right now. Just because you can over come and make the best out of your situation doesn't mean there are not serious injustices.

  18. #2343
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    uncle!

    <sigh>

    Pay attention. Don't be a dick. Compassion. Empathy. Kindness. For everyone, always, the best you can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

  19. #2344
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    And denying that a problem exists while attempting to invalidate others who have suffered due to said problem.

    To be clear, other than my leg being broken, my life is pretty great right now. Just because you can over come and make the best out of your situation doesn't mean there are not serious injustices.
    LOL!! So now you're going to tell me what I think and feel? Sigh. I simply advocate for myself a self-defining life where I don't give POS people a say in how I live. It is a path that works for me and perhaps an example for others to try.

    Injustice? I'm in my 50s, I know all about injustice. I spent my life working in a field that is the original old boys network and decades volunteering my time and talents to help those who could not help themselves. BTDT. There is injustice of every make model and style in every corner of the world. Never said there wasn't. Like everyone, I choose the ones I want to work against in my own way.

    A wise woman wishes to be no one's enemy; a wise woman refuses to be anyone's victim.
    Maya Angelou



    /end
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  20. #2345
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    Wow. Great way to spend a Saturday guys.

  21. #2346
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    Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    So here's the deal: my mom in the 1940s worked in aluminum smelting plants.

    My mom gave up show business for me. That had to suck.. She was glad when I left for college at 18 3k miles away never to return. Best for both of us at the time.

    Crazy cat lady forever:


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    I heard Russia had posted about this on facebook. Grrrrrr.

    I miss Dr. Joy Browne.

  23. #2348
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    Wow. Great way to spend a Saturday guys.
    eh... what can I say.... it's raining like Seattle here. Brought the horses in early and I'm done for the night. Time for a glass of wine and to play with the kittens!
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  24. #2349
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    eh... what can I say.... it's raining like Seattle here. Brought the horses in early and I'm done for the night. Time for a glass of wine and to play with the kittens!
    And some drunk KQ posting.

    Hopefully

  25. #2350
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    And some drunk KQ posting.

    Hopefully
    LOL! Possibly - I'm feeling saucy!

    Mmmmmmmmm, nice Abacela Syrah!
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

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