Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

[yeahman]

They always say divorce is expensive because it's worth it, but reading this thread makes me believe things have to be REALLY REALLY bad before it truly is worth it financially.

My sister had to pay her ex alimony for a couple years, even though she had custody of the one kid still at home she just made way more money than him, and I remember how pissed she was when he showed up at our brother's house with a new sports car one day. "I bought that," she muttered. Alimony seems like a scam sometimes when people collect who don't really need it.

[AdironRider]

I know of places filled with old money types where the old school way of one spouse is expected to stay at home with the children and give up their career ambitions. It is quite progressive in that its a lot of stay at home Dads now, but that still creates quite a difference in terms of one's lifetime earnings. If I had to give up my career earning potential I'd damn well expect to be compensated if shit didn't work out like they say it will in the storybooks, doubly so if it wasn't due to any transgression of mine.

That said, a dual earning couple who just pursued different career paths makes it a harder sell in my eyes.

[altasnob]

I talked to a lawyer for about fifteen minutes and they said I probably couldn't get a much better deal even if I fought it.

It doesn't sound like representing yourself made anything worse. It sounds like there has been a significant change in circumstances (ex got new high paying job) AFTER child support payments were set. As others have said, you can petition the court to modify based on that change in circumstances.

If financially able to get a lawyer, get a lawyer. But lots of people don't have the finances for that option. I have a friend going through the exact same thing as you. He is a public school teacher and broke. He's $40k deep in attorney fees and the divorce isn't even finalized. I am telling him to learn the system so he can do things himself because as other have said, this won't end until your kids are done with college. If you have to rely on an attorney to get relatively minor things modified down the road, you won't modify them because cost of attorney outweighs the benefits. But if you are doing things on your own, you don't have that dilemma. Jail house lawyers figure this stuff out and so can you.

[Mustonen]

I spent a little over $3K on lawyer fees. I feel like I got off pretty cheap, all things considered.

My ex wouldn’t work after we had kids, even after the kids all went to school. She had a degree and work experience, it just didn’t really appeal to her. She made some half-assed attempts to find a job, and finally found some very PT jobs that didn’t put much of a dent in finances. Net effect of which is that the divorce sucked, but wasn’t actually much of a step back financially. We’d more or less finally gotten to a break even point after years of battling her credit card debt (some of them in my name). She wasn’t bringing anything to the table. I was supporting her anyways. And my fiancé makes quite a bit more than I’m paying in support. Financially, I’m better off now than I would have been if I had stayed. And so is she. The whole thing motivated her to get out and find a real full-time job, since she was losing my employer provided health insurance benefit. She’s doing damn well at the moment, between what she’s making and what I’m providing.

I truly don’t begrudge her the allmymoney or child support that I pay every month, though it annoys me when she implies that I’m not paying my fair share or that she needs more.

[byates1]

^pistol whip her, that'll straighten her out.

[Mustonen]

…….what?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I'm embarrassed to say that maintenance is until the kids are 18.

Twins are 4 eldest is 7.
I am well and truly fucked.

So maintenance ends with child support? I know that it sucks but on the bright side some people are saddled with maintenance for life


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Until they decide to go to college.

Your still on the hook for that. At least In this state.

Wtf are you talking about? Maintenance(alimony) has nothing to do with your children going to college. Maintenance ends when the decree says it ends. Usually there is a stipulation that it ends if the recipient of maintenance gets remarried.

Child support is different and usually a decree states that it ends when a child turns 18 or graduates HS whichever comes later. Of course the terms can be different but that’s pretty standard because you’re an adult at 18.


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[skaredshtles]

Fuck man. 5.5k a month. I'd just kill her and go to jail. Problem solved. Kids though..

^pistol whip her, that'll straighten her out.

[byates1]

It's a joke boys.

[TahoeJ]

Re: Johnny Depp.

I was nearly in tears this morning listening to Amber calling him a bitch for his response to her hitting him. Fucking toxic abusive bitch.

I've fucking been there.

Yeah, if you haven't been through that kind of prolonged emotional abuse it's difficult for other people to understand what it's like; it literally drives you crazy. "Stop being so sensitive" is a narcissist mantra. I don't blame you for basically saying fuck it and signing the papers because all you want to do in that phase is be done with it.

I pay a ton of child and spousal support. The CS doesn't bother me at all, but the alimony is a kick in the teeth, especially since I put her through graduate school. At least the alimony part expires in 2030 if she doesn't sucker some other guy in before then.

[altasnob]

Sure, alimony may get abused. But the concept makes sense to me. Lets say you went to Stanford undergrad, law, and business and had a venture capitalist set up to fund your multi-million dollar tech start up at age 28. But you met this great chick, get married, have kids. She's even more of a rock star than you so you decide to stay home to raise the kids, putting your career to the side. Then you get divorced at age 48. While you were a rock star at age 28, your skills are obsolete at age 48. Meanwhile, your ex is crushing it making millions on her career. Why shouldn't she have to support you? You sacrificed your career to raise the kids so that she could pursue her career?

[TahoeJ]

Well sure, the concept of spousal support makes a ton of sense in general... but not always. What you described as an example is a far cry from our reality. My ex has a steady six figure salary and with child support she's perfectly comfortable - the alimony probably gives her more play money than me, once taxes are considered. So that seems like bullshit. I doubt I'll have to pay it for the full 10 years.

Still worth it, though, not having to be around her.

[skiskiskiskiski]

They always say divorce is expensive because it's worth it, but reading this thread makes me believe things have to be REALLY REALLY bad before it truly is worth it financially.

My sister had to pay her ex alimony for a couple years, even though she had custody of the one kid still at home she just made way more money than him, and I remember how pissed she was when he showed up at our brother's house with a new sports car one day. "I bought that," she muttered. Alimony seems like a scam sometimes when people collect who don't really need it.

It goes both ways, and it should.

[Thaleia]

It's a joke boys.

Jokes about domestic violence, killing even, in the divorce thread. You're class act.

[oftpiste]

I've come to the conclusion that no matter how good everyone's intentions are (or they say they are) at the beginning of the divorce process, the moment someone feels like they're not getting what they want (which is inevitable) the stakes rise. Better to start with the lawyers in some ways.

The other very sad conclusion is that the party who can feed the lawyers the longest will probably win. I simply ran out of money (after spending somewhere around $30k on legal bills) and the ex's wealthy mom was paying her horrid cunt of a bottom feeder lawyer who relished every possible opportunity to fuck me, and bill more hours to the ex. I finally had to say 'uncle'.

When one party is a fucked up human there's no good outcome unfortunately.

I love how everyone says, "keep the money grubbing lawyers out of it!", until they get ass raped over and over again down the line.

[oftpiste]

This. And my ex (maybe at her attorney's suggestion) did make up allegations of abuse. Even told members of my extended family with whom the relationships have never been the same. So it can and does happen.

Had not been following the Depp lawsuit. I don’t pretend to know what happened and what didn’t happen. But he said something about being close to a breakdown and knowing that his life wasn’t really life, and that definitely strikes close to home.

And while I well understand that typically, women don’t make up allegations of abuse and I realize why that stance is important, my ex wife made similar public statements that were vague enough to be slippery but damning all the same. Things like “As a survivor of domestic abuse….” and “instead of gifts, donate to the local women’s shelter, whose support has been invaluable in some of my most troubling times….” All nonsense, but what do you do with it? I ignored it. I still have mutual acquaintances who are definitely chilly toward me, but can’t ever find an intro to “I never abused my ex wife, she’s a narcissistic liar.”

Some people crave conflict, and being married to somebody who does can be harrowing, especially over years and years. It changes you and makes you a different person and being freed from it is an amazing breath of fresh air.

[oftpiste]

Boy howdy. Right? You're literally thinking you're completely out of your mind ALL the time!

Yeah, if you haven't been through that kind of prolonged emotional abuse it's difficult for other people to understand what it's like; it literally drives you crazy. "Stop being so sensitive" is a narcissist mantra. I don't blame you for basically saying fuck it and signing the papers because all you want to do in that phase is be done with it.

[byates1]

Jokes about domestic violence, killing even, in the divorce thread. You're class act.

Harden up pussy.

[frorider]

I have GoFundMe fatigue at times, especially with our fucked health care system etc etc, but I doubt I’m the only one here thinking Silver Surfer needs our help getting some lawyer fees paid for Round 2.

[TheSilverSurfer]

Boy howdy. Right? You're literally thinking you're completely out of your mind ALL the time!

My ex had me convinced I was mental. To the point that I convinced a psychiatrist that I was bi-polar. Shortly after separation my therapist let me know that I wasn't. That I was suffering ptsd and was the victim of an abusive partner.

She had me truly convinced that it was my fault that she was assaulting me, and that I deserved it.

It's fucking gross what abuse does,and many men suffer it silently.

[Falcon3]

Ok, here’s some general info on what I’ve seen in WA child support/spousal maintenance. I’m not an attorney and this isn’t legal advice.

In general, courts want to see a “substantial change in circumstances” to modify an order prior to 24 months. Usually that means one party got laid off and isn’t able to get a similar paying job, was permanently disabled, went to prison, etc. in your case it sounds like you still have your job, but she changed her circumstances, which might qualify. The 24 month timeframe however is really related to a full modification, you might be able to clarify a term in your order earlier than this.

courts will sometimes allow a separate order prior to 24 months because it’s not a full modification of the order, it’s a clarification of a specific term. Again, probably best to talk to an attorney about how that works. It’s also something outside the purview of the state agency, so I saw those orders come in for clarification of costs but never was involved in the process outside that.

Second, the courts are usually hesitant to accept a modification just because one party accepted a bad deal. Unfortunately this sounds like your case.

Spousal support in WA tends to be more limited than many other states. It also usually terminates if the party receiving spousal gets married. Most often I’ve seen 24 months of spousal, rarely longer than 5 years, but it’s often based on a percentage of the time you spent together married and what sort of sacrifices were made earning-wise. So there may be an opportunity for you to revisit this.

Overall, it sounds like you’d be best served at least consulting a couple attorneys (definitely shop around). They can read your decree and see what you might have for options. You specific circumstance with the nanny seems like it might have wiggle room, mostly because the whole thing sounds very specifically worded. Usually stuff like that is pretty vague like “work related daycare” which can be almost anything.

Unfortunately, if the nanny fits into the definitely of what’s allowed, there aren’t really any caps on what the limit of expenditures are. Child support is based off percentages of income with caps, but medical expenses and child care are usually straight percent splits as long as the cost meets the definition of “allowable”.

Good luck, we’re all pullin for ya.

[TheSilverSurfer]

I have GoFundMe fatigue at times, especially with our fucked health care system etc etc, but I doubt I’m the only one here thinking Silver Surfer needs our help getting some lawyer fees paid for Round 2.

Thanks man! Luckily our house sells this month and it's the high season for construction so I'm ready to spend.
Unfortunately, this means she will also be financially able. Maybe we will get lucky and can burn through all of our proceeds from the house fighting.

[TheSilverSurfer]

Ok, here’s some general info on what I’ve seen in WA child support/spousal maintenance. I’m not an attorney and this isn’t legal advice.

In general, courts want to see a “substantial change in circumstances” to modify an order prior to 24 months. Usually that means one party got laid off and isn’t able to get a similar paying job, was permanently disabled, went to prison, etc. in your case it sounds like you still have your job, but she changed her circumstances, which might qualify. The 24 month timeframe however is really related to a full modification, you might be able to clarify a term in your order earlier than this.

courts will sometimes allow a separate order prior to 24 months because it’s not a full modification of the order, it’s a clarification of a specific term. Again, probably best to talk to an attorney about how that works. It’s also something outside the purview of the state agency, so I saw those orders come in for clarification of costs but never was involved in the process outside that.

Second, the courts are usually hesitant to accept a modification just because one party accepted a bad deal. Unfortunately this sounds like your case.

Spousal support in WA tends to be more limited than many other states. It also usually terminates if the party receiving spousal gets married. Most often I’ve seen 24 months of spousal, rarely longer than 5 years, but it’s often based on a percentage of the time you spent together married and what sort of sacrifices were made earning-wise. So there may be an opportunity for you to revisit this.

Overall, it sounds like you’d be best served at least consulting a couple attorneys (definitely shop around). They can read your decree and see what you might have for options. You specific circumstance with the nanny seems like it might have wiggle room, mostly because the whole thing sounds very specifically worded. Usually stuff like that is pretty vague like “work related daycare” which can be almost anything.

Unfortunately, if the nanny fits into the definitely of what’s allowed, there aren’t really any caps on what the limit of expenditures are. Child support is based off percentages of income with caps, but medical expenses and child care are usually straight percent splits as long as the cost meets the definition of “allowable”.

Good luck, we’re all pullin for ya.

Sounds like I'm probably fucked, because yeah it says "work related daycare".

I just don't see how it's fair that she gets to increase her income 100% at my expense.

So fucked.

[oftpiste]

In my case it was only emotional, but brutal and turned the world sideways for years. Our therapist (35+ years in practice with countless couples) who was later my therapist told me later that she had never seen anyone treated with so much cruelty. And yes to the PTSD diagnosis.

I'm super bummed for you SS, that you have to go through it all. It's a terrible time. And there is so much beauty on the other side. As I've said to many here, reach out if you ever need an ear.

My ex had me convinced I was mental. To the point that I convinced a psychiatrist that I was bi-polar. Shortly after separation my therapist let me know that I wasn't. That I was suffering ptsd and was the victim of an abusive partner.

She had me truly convinced that it was my fault that she was assaulting me, and that I deserved it.

It's fucking gross what abuse does,and many men suffer it silently.