Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

[TahoeJ]

If you mean I pointed out toxic behavior then, well, I suppose you’re correct.

Imagine if a bunch of women were talking about how their husbands beat the shit out of them and then you roll in saying no one is innocent and maybe they deserved it. That’s essentially what you’re doing here. Fuck off.

[oftpiste]

Which, in itself, is a comment diminishing (as opposed to compassion, support, empathy) another's experience, whatever it was. To say, 'buck up dood, it was probably half your fault' (when you didn't have the same experience) is vastly different than acknowledging that someone has suffered, been traumatized, been abused, and offering them kindness. Which is not to say I never did anything wrong in a 30 year marriage.

And I appreciate that you had a similar experience and am deeply sorry you had to suffer through that. I would hope that having been through a difficult experience of any kind would enhance one's ability to feel empathy for others who might also have. Throwing blame (which is how this is received regardless of your intention) is not at all helpful or compassionate or supportive. If you think for a minute that I (and probably TJ and others) have been oblivious to considering our own faults you are very, very mistaken.

As you may know, one symptom of relationships with people with BPD and NPD is that you become convinced you are the biggest piece of useless, stupid, lame, and most of all crazy shit on the planet. Unless you're one too this leads to deep reflection, perhaps a tendency to take on more of the blame than is actually reasonable. And if you're lucky you get to begin the climb out of that deep trough.

No one is dismissing your experience, a few of us made the observation that it’s rarely completely one sided and that we only hear one side in this thread.

My experience with marriage and divorce probably wasn’t that much different than yours btw.


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[muted reborn]

I should REALLY stay out of this but - what the hell- I've done a 180 about how TahoeJ is coming across in this thread and relating his divorce to us - I get it now - and I think he's getting unnecessarily shit on here right on top of his somewhat fresh, shitty divorce. Sure, MagUni is doing his Neanderthal simpleton schtick as always but you other guys are making some giant leaps here without the fully story (which will never be provided) is a dick move. Just move on. So what if she isn't a narcissist - then she's probably just a normal horrible person to be married to - what does that change and who really cares when this thread is about divorce advice and not who is right or wrong?

[teleee]

I know its TGR so the judging of others should not be surprising but JFC people, none of us have walked in the Törns shoes on here. Mental health issues in a relationship are so personal and so demanding I would never judge how someone has dealt with it.
I was married to an alcoholic for 8 years. Was I the husband of Thea year? Hell no!
On the other hand I did everything I mentally could handle to try and make it work. We lost our house in order to pay for rehab 3 times. I would dread 5:00 O clock every day hoping she would come home instead of heading to the bar. When she didn’t come home I would wait by the phone for hours waiting for someone to call and ask me to come get her, hoping it wasn’t the police or the hospital. I finally couldn’t stand to watch her slowly kill herself and need it. I gave her all of my remaining in savings with the stipulation that she used it on rehab. It didn’t work, 3 years later she died over an accidental overdose. Do I wish I could have done something better to help her and save our marriage? Every fucking day, but the fact of the matter that kind of help was beyond my means. So fuck anyone who wants to judge me and how I handled it, and Tahoe J as well.
End blog


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

I should REALLY stay out of this but - what the hell- I've done a 180 about how TahoeJ is coming across in this thread and relating his divorce to us - I get it now - and I think he's getting unnecessarily shit on here right on top of his somewhat fresh, shitty divorce. Sure, MagUni is doing his Neanderthal simpleton schtick as always but you other guys are making some giant leaps here without the fully story (which will never be provided) is a dick move. Just move on. So what if she isn't a narcissist - then she's probably just a normal horrible person to be married to - what does that change and who really cares when this thread is about divorce advice and not who is right or wrong?

I’ve always thought of myself as more of a Cro Mag, but thanks. I really don’t think that acknowledging that both parties bear responsibility for the break up of a marriage is a simpleton view. I wasn’t the one that started throwing out insults and personal attacks either. That was the paragon of virtue, Tahoe J


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[TahoeJ]

Pretty sure I was just in this thread relating to people and being sympathetic and sharing similar experiences. But ok, whatever. Paragon of virtue, lol…

If you want to go back and point out where I’m being a shit stirrer, go ahead and quote it.

[Mustonen]

I’ve always thought of myself as more of a Cro Mag, but thanks. I really don’t think that acknowledging that both parties bear responsibility for the break up of a marriage is a simpleton view. I wasn’t the one that started throwing out insults and personal attacks either. That was the paragon of virtue, Tahoe J


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It’s pretty simple to imagine that such an observation is meaningful or helpful or appropriate. You don’t have to post every thought that occurs to you, guy.

[skiskiskiskiski]

If you mean I pointed out toxic behavior then, well, I suppose you’re correct.

Imagine if a bunch of women were talking about how their husbands beat the shit out of them and then you roll in saying no one is innocent and maybe they deserved it. That’s essentially what you’re doing here. Fuck off.

When do beat up women do that? They are embarrassed and ashamed and think its their fault and usually have to try several times to leave their abuser.

Hopefully they get therapy, because if they don't they usually end up with another abuser.

Usually takes years of therapy for them to internalize that it wasn't there fault, and while many will talk about it, especially in an effort to help someone, they very rarely advertise it.

Also, it is NEVER someone's fault they were physically abused. Its never ok. Part of healing a victim has to understand how to not attract (and be attracted to) abusers. Never their fault, but they still have to acknowledge how they played a role in it.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

It’s pretty simple to imagine that such an observation is meaningful or helpful or appropriate. You don’t have to post every thought that occurs to you, guy.

So like the quoted post above adds nothing? At least my posts are relevant to the thread topic. I’m sorry that I don’t blindly believe that all the posters here are blameless in regards to their divorce. Is that on topic? Should I consult you before posting?


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[J. Barron DeJong]

…it is NEVER someone's fault they were physically abused. Its never ok but they still have to acknowledge how they played a role in it.

Which one is it: ‘never their fault’, or ‘they played a role in it’?

What about emotional abuse? Same?

[Meadow Skipper]

I bet this is how you communicated with your ex.

IPPS

Great, just great.

[Core Shot]

Which one is it: ‘never their fault’, or ‘they played a role in it’?

What about emotional abuse? Same?

Not every time.

But if your old enough and pay attention, you will see some women making bad choices.
Over
And over.

They’re not to blame
But I’ve seen it. Bad choices. Men make bad choices too.

Skiski made a valid point that some people with repeated bad decisions might need counseling to not make more bad decisions.

They play a role in the decision. The outcome if violence or abuse is not condoned

[Mustonen]

So like the quoted post above adds nothing? At least my posts are relevant to the thread topic. I’m sorry that I don’t blindly believe that all the posters here are blameless in regards to their divorce. Is that on topic? Should I consult you before posting?


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What? No. You’re just a little simple. It’s cute that you imagine you aren’t.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Not every time.

But if your old enough and pay attention, you will see some women making bad choices.
Over
And over.

They’re not to blame
But I’ve seen it. Bad choices. Men make bad choices too.

Skiski made a valid point that some people with repeated bad decisions might need counseling to not make more bad decisions.

They play a role in the decision. The outcome if violence or abuse is not condoned

I don’t disagree with any of that. I think it’s complicated.

I think skiski should consider that emotional abuse can be complicated too.

[CarlMega]

Also, it is NEVER someone's fault they were physically abused. Its never ok. Part of healing a victim has to understand how to not attract (and be attracted to) abusers. Never their fault, but they still have to acknowledge how they played a role in it.

This was that dangerous line I was dancing around before I got yelled at. Bottom line: no one deserves abuse. Period. No one in this thread (and their loved ones) deserves their heartbreak and pain. And if you were wronged in your marriage and subsequent divorce, I'm sorry.

But maybe, if you find yourself in a pattern where you are in committed relationships (and tolerate) with narcissists, BPD, depressed, erratic uncaring vindictive people - it'd be worth asking "why is that?"

I dunno. Maybe it's because there's always a fresh situation in the thread that we need to be minded to the unconditional supportive empathy aspect as people are in crisis? I can understand that.

My divorce support system was entirely female. And some 15 years later, I can only marvel on how lucky I was. They focused on helping me and my pain and very little about running down my ex. They know how to listen in a way that matters. Most male friends went straight to "what a bitch" and 'fuck her she's nuts" everything you'd expect and it wasn't helpful. The ladies could find the right balance whereas the guys were just a hammer. I don't know if that tracks for everyone but that's how it was for me.

What they gently did, with a grace and timing that I lack, was tactfully & honestly introduce that I had work to do on myself, patterns to break and hope that I could bring happiness to someone else's life. So it's with best imperfect intentions that I tried to impart a bit of that here. But honestly, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

[TahoeJ]

Part of healing a victim has to understand how to not attract (and be attracted to) abusers. Never their fault, but they still have to acknowledge how they played a role in it.

Yeah I already said I was a teenager and she was very attractive and I got roped in. It’s really not that complicated beyond that. My mistake? Sure, but I’m not really going to beat myself up over that. There’s no 17 year old guy that wouldn’t have wanted to fuck her, I’m just the idiot who married her. That doesn’t mean I deserved anything that happened over the next 20 years.

Anyway, I’m out for now. I appreciate this thread when it’s supportive but don’t really feel like I need to defend myself anymore.

[teleee]

Dude, you don’t have to defend yourself pant of the fucktards judging you in this thread. Until they have been in your same shoes they have no right. Now if you want to talk about that Warriors homer thing…
I’m glad you are out of it and moving on. Be a good dad. That’s what’s important going forward ( I see my to recall you have kids)


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

What? No. You’re just a little simple. It’s cute that you imagine you aren’t.

This is a very clever and intelligent comeback. Insults and personal attacks, you’re really quite brilliant.

So what value do you have to add? I was married to someone like what oftpiste and Tahoe J were. Yes, even attempts at physical abuse. I have some perspective here.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

This was that dangerous line I was dancing around before I got yelled at. Bottom line: no one deserves abuse. Period. No one in this thread (and their loved ones) deserves their heartbreak and pain. And if you were wronged in your marriage and subsequent divorce, I'm sorry.

But maybe, if you find yourself in a pattern where you are in committed relationships (and tolerate) with narcissists, BPD, depressed, erratic uncaring vindictive people - it'd be worth asking "why is that?"

I dunno. Maybe it's because there's always a fresh situation in the thread that we need to be minded to the unconditional supportive empathy aspect as people are in crisis? I can understand that.

My divorce support system was entirely female. And some 15 years later, I can only marvel on how lucky I was. They focused on helping me and my pain and very little about running down my ex. They know how to listen in a way that matters. Most male friends went straight to "what a bitch" and 'fuck her she's nuts" everything you'd expect and it wasn't helpful. The ladies could find the right balance whereas the guys were just a hammer. I don't know if that tracks for everyone but that's how it was for me.

What they gently did, with a grace and timing that I lack, was tactfully & honestly introduce that I had work to do on myself, patterns to break and hope that I could bring happiness to someone else's life. So it's with best imperfect intentions that I tried to impart a bit of that here. But honestly, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

Dude, this isn’t the place to talk about self reflection and personal responsibility, it’s a forum to bitch about your crazy ex.


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[Meadow Skipper]

^ A, consider stepping away from the TRGz for a little bit. You’re not doing well.

[Mustonen]

This is a very clever and intelligent comeback. Insults and personal attacks, you’re really quite brilliant.

So what value do you have to add? I was married to someone like what oftpiste and Tahoe J were. Yes, even attempts at physical abuse. I have some perspective here.


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I’m not here to validate you.

[TahoeJ]

Dude, you don’t have to defend yourself pant of the fucktards judging you in this thread. Until they have been in your same shoes they have no right. Now if you want to talk about that Warriors homer thing…
I’m glad you are out of it and moving on. Be a good dad. That’s what’s important going forward ( I see my to recall you have kids)


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Ha, I will own my Dubs homerism!

[MTT]

Dude.

My ex tells me that she's done getting anything she wants from the house that we are selling and I have two days to get what I want before the contractors throw everything away.

I go in there and find IRS letters, bills, retirement account letters, etc. all over the floor. I spend hours getting as much as I can and put it all in a box in the living room.

She goes in the next day and loses her shit that
I have some of her mail in the box. I tell her I have her birthdate, ssn, etc.. all memorized, so what would I need her stuff for?

She proceeds to take the entire box. So now she has all the stuff that she was leaving on the floor to go to the dump.

No logic.

That’s interesting. She has issues. No advice. You do have a lawyer. Right?

Can you help fix her? Do you want to?

Sounds like she is going to go off. You just need to get out of the blast range. But if you still love her? What to do?

[~mikey b]

MTT you should fuck off and get out of this thread you asshole

[~mikey b]

you’re a fucking drunken idiot