Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

[AK47bp]

I bet you are more similar to your 27-year-old self than you are different. but I don't know you so arguing about this is pointless. Sure, goals and expectations change over time..... I don't think that necessarily constitutes that a person has changed.

Or….as you age you learn more about your true self that was always there.

I’m the same now as I was in my 20’s but I understand myself better now. I’ve learned to bite my tongue and comprise more. Not get stressed about things outside my control.

I guess that can be defined as “change” but my core hasn’t changed, just how I deal with it.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Mustonen]

Recent experience, particularly with divorce and in re: my ex, has taught me that people don’t really change much.

At the same time, I can well recognize that your output is heavily influenced by your environment and other inputs. Red and yellow make orange. Red and blue make purple. Red is still red. Some people are affected more by this than others….

[TahoeJ]

People change, expectations change.

Sure, people can change somewhat, but you're missing my point. Read up on covert narcissism - if you haven't experienced it firsthand it's difficult to understand how crazy it is. It's extremely common for these types of people to wait until marriage or kids to then just let it all hang out, mostly behind closed doors of course.

[Mustonen]

I think some people interact with the world according to who they are, and those people are usually fairly reliable and predictable. Some people, like my ex, interact with the world according to something different entirely. Their idea of who they’re supposed to be, maybe. It was always a rollercoaster, depending on who she had talked to last. The internet makes this a lot more unpredictable.

ETA: I acknowledge that this is probably more continuum than either/or.

[mcphee]

[oftpiste]

You are the one who married her. So suck that up.

Yeah, it's really just that simple as I'm sure you know. And yes, I did. Had I known (and understood) then what I know (and understand) now, I might not have. I doubt many young folks getting married have done deep dives into the psych profiles of their soon-to-be-spouses before stepping to the altar. It's all unicorn dust when you're in that place.

And of course people change/morph. And sometimes they go off the deep end when some trigger occurs. And sometimes the covert narcissism/sociopathy which has been under the radar for a long time becomes overt.

[oftpiste]

This

Sure, people can change somewhat, but you're missing my point. Read up on covert narcissism - if you haven't experienced it firsthand it's difficult to understand how crazy it is. It's extremely common for these types of people to wait until marriage or kids to then just let it all hang out, mostly behind closed doors of course.

[skiskiskiskiski]

Aren't most states no fault and 50/50 division these days? Aren't there formulas for spousal support and child support based on both spouses income, length of marriage and ages of children plus percentage of custody?

If the other party is being unreasonable why not just have the judge decide? Seems like while a judge might not be perfect they probably wouldn't be completely unreasonable.

I could see people screwing each other in a fault state where its he said and she said... but a no fault, 50/50 split seems hard to mess up. I mean, money usually leaves a paper trail..

[TahoeJ]

Do you have any idea how much it costs to actually go to court?

There's a ton of nuance to all of this - it's not even close to cut and dry like you're making it out to be.

[skiskiskiskiski]

Do you have any idea how much it costs to actually go to court?

There's a ton of nuance to all of this - it's not even close to cut and dry like you're making it out to be.

More than the 30 gs off offpistes claims to have spent?

[TahoeJ]

Yes, it can be a lot more than that. A lot. $400+ per hour adds up quick.

[skiskiskiskiski]

Yes, it can be a lot more than that. A lot. $400+ per hour adds up quick.

But the court can require the spouse to pay attorney fees for the other and it seems like a judge would be inclined to do so if one party wS being ridiculous.

[TahoeJ]

But the court can require the spouse to pay attorney fees for the other and it seems like a judge would be inclined to do so if one party wS being ridiculous.

I mean sure that can happen but rarely does. What is your point here? Oh just go to court and potentially drop close to six figures hoping a judge will do that? Seems like a losing strategy.

The expense of going to court is a pretty common negotiating tactic in the first place… for a reason. Why do you think 99% of all cases of various types end in settlement?

[dan_pdx]

But the court can require the spouse to pay attorney fees for the other and it seems like a judge would be inclined to do so if one party wS being ridiculous.

If you're already paying alimony to your ex and she gets slapped with an order to pay your attorney fees how does that work? Is that really a win?

[skiskiskiskiski]

I think I would take my chances on a judge before I entered into some insane agreement like silver surfer.... agreeing to alimony until the kids are 18... thats 14 years away for 4 year olds.

Were they even married for that long? Washington generally awards alimony at 20 to 33% of the length of the marriage or 1year for every 3 yo 4 years of marriage.

If they were married 10 years (guessing) that would be 2 to 3 years of support.

Does she have a degree?

I mean, I get wanting to save money on attorneys and take care of the kids and ex but did he even google?

Plus, there isn't a limit. Like, you could have gotten a more standard agreement and then kept paying her longer if you wanted to...

I dont know, it just seems crazy dumb to sign off on something so unreasonable. If you cannot take care of yourself you're useless to anyone.

You burn yourself out and fizzle away where are the kids, then?

How do you have time to spend with them while being an indentured servant to their mother?

I dont think a judge would have make him pay her so much for so long.

Plus, add up the maintenance for 14 years! If 2000 of the 5,500 is for spouse support rather than child, that's going to be over 300,000 dollars before the kids are 18. Imagibe your wealth if you invested 2 grand a month!

[oftpiste]

I spent that without going to court. The estimate to take it to court was another $50k. And your odds of victory are 50/50 at best, so yeah, the court route is fucked.

"No fault" only means exactly what it says. It in no way provides any assurance that things will turn out 'equitably' for both parties The lawyers can spin shit in a thousand ways, and a spouse and their counsel can lie and they often do. So unless you have very deep pockets it's a risky proposition.

And it still boils down to the idea that whoever has the deepest pockets to pay their lawyer the longest is likely to come out ahead.

More than the 30 gs off offpistes claims to have spent?

[ghosthop]

He's talking about signing a piece of paper that got him out of an abusive relationship and allowed him to see his kids again. Cut him some slack.

If the abuse can be proven, could the arrangement be annulled because it was signed under duress?

[TahoeJ]

Umm.. so, generally speaking, men get absolutely fucked in family court. Like hard. You're also really just taking for granted what he was going through at the time.

I spent $20k plus easily just between my lawyer and a mediator, plus filing fees, etc. Lawyer told me that if we went to court it would cost $100k most likely.

Also, extremely difficult to prove that kind of abuse. Like, oh, she made some mean comments did she?

[oftpiste]

Dude, seriously?

Have you been through this? If you haven't you have no idea of the shitstorm it is and how bad it can get.

I think I would take my chances on a judge before I entered into some insane agreement like silver surfer.... agreeing to alimony until the kids are 18... thats 14 years away for 4 year olds.

Were they even married for that long? Washington generally awards alimony at 20 to 33% of the length of the marriage or 1year for every 3 yo 4 years of marriage.

If they were married 10 years (guessing) that would be 2 to 3 years of support.

Does she have a degree?

I mean, I get wanting to save money on attorneys and take care of the kids and ex but did he even google?

Plus, there isn't a limit. Like, you could have gotten a more standard agreement and then kept paying her longer if you wanted to...

I dont know, it just seems crazy dumb to sign off on something so unreasonable. If you cannot take care of yourself you're useless to anyone.

You burn yourself out and fizzle away where are the kids, then?

How do you have time to spend with them whole being an indentured servant to their mother?

I dont think a judge would have make him pay her so much for so long.

[east or bust]

I think I would take my chances on a judge before I entered into some insane agreement like silver surfer.... agreeing to alimony until the kids are 18... thats 14 years away for 4 year olds.

Were they even married for that long? Washington generally awards alimony at 20 to 33% of the length of the marriage or 1year for every 3 yo 4 years of marriage.

If they were married 10 years (guessing) that would be 2 to 3 years of support.

Does she have a degree?

I mean, I get wanting to save money on attorneys and take care of the kids and ex but did he even google?

Plus, there isn't a limit. Like, you could have gotten a more standard agreement and then kept paying her longer if you wanted to...

I dont know, it just seems crazy dumb to sign off on something so unreasonable. If you cannot take care of yourself you're useless to anyone.

You burn yourself out and fizzle away where are the kids, then?

How do you have time to spend with them whole being an indentured servant to their mother?

I dont think a judge would have make him pay her so much for so long.

Plus, add up the maintenance for 14 years! If 2000 of the 5,500 is for spouse support rather than child, that's going to be over 300,000 dollars before the kids are 18. Imagibe your wealth if you invested 2 grand a month!

I get major kraken vibes from you.

that is all.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[skiskiskiskiski]

Umm.. so, generally speaking, men get absolutely fucked in family court. Like hard. You're also really just taking for granted what he was going through at the time.

I spent $20k plus easily just between my lawyer and a mediator, plus filing fees, etc. Lawyer told me that if we went to court it would cost $100k most likely.

Also, extremely difficult to prove that kind of abuse. Like, oh, she made some mean comments did she?

But in a no fault state its not about proving abuse its about dividing assets fairly and deciding on child support and maintenance based on established standards in your state...

It sounds like tss got fucked. Not sure about anyone else's situations.

[TahoeJ]

^^ Fairly. So what does that mean? There's a ton of factors that play into it - did someone sacrifice their career for the kids, etc. etc. etc.

You can't be this naive to think it's so easy. Apparently you think we're all just a bunch of idiots? Oh shit, you mean I could have just split things up fairly and that would have been it? How simple!

[TheSilverSurfer]

I feel fucked, but really I'm getting the typical deal. She gets alimony because she has a masters degree and quit a six figure a year job to be a stay at home mom.

Where I'm getting fucked is the childcare costs, but childcare costs have gotten insanely expensive in Seattle and I'm finding out I may just be in the same boat as a lot of people.

I have one little possible out in our super order and I'm trying to angle for a deal that takes care of her short term needs while letting me out of alimony payments after a specific time period.

It sucks. Having kids is expensive. Getting divorced is expensive. I never expected to be giving my ex 84k a year, but shit happens and at least I have three fucking wonderful kids.

[skiskiskiskiski]

Dude, seriously?

Have you been through this? If you haven't you have no idea of the shitstorm it is and how bad it can get.

I have been divorced but we just divided the shit up did the papers ourselves and went our own ways. Minimal drama.

I guess the people I know who have gotten divorced, both male and female the ones that wanted to protect "their" assets or fight over stupid shit had a bad time. Those that accepted the standards for division of property and support ended up with some thing pretty much along those lines.

[skiskiskiskiski]

I feel fucked, but really I'm getting the typical deal. She gets alimony because she has a masters degree and quit a six figure a year job to be a stay at home mom.

Where I'm getting fucked is the childcare costs, but childcare costs have gotten insanely expensive in Seattle and I'm finding out I may just be in the same boat as a lot of people.

I have one little possible out in our super order and I'm trying to angle for a deal that takes care of her short term needs while letting me out of alimony payments after a specific time period.

It sucks. Having kids is expensive. Getting divorced is expensive. I never expected to be giving my ex 84k a year, but shit happens and at least I have three fucking wonderful kids.

You totally got fucked. She can get another 6 figure a year job before the kids are 18.

And she needs to.

And then you need 50/50 custody and nobody pays anyone anything.