Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

[MakersTeleMark]

That's the discipline. Exactly. Thanks for getting my reference.

[byates1]

yeah, but, what about love?

[MakersTeleMark]

That's why you have a bunch of brainfried people bitching about divorce.

I get it, but it doesn't have to be that way. Not to treat this like a cross-post, but treat marriage as an avalanche assessment.

Know before you go, every day.

Sorry, but I deal with both, often. On at the car, off at the bar.

JK.

[byates1]

it's an easy judgement to pass on people i have not met.

it is fair to walk a mile in another's shoes.

love, divorce, children is more complicated than some 38 deg slippery slope.

(i only marry up, then promptly divorce and ligitage, obviously

[MakersTeleMark]

love, divorce, children is more complicated than some 38 deg slippery slope.

No, it's not actually. In one case you have only human factors, in the other, there are a host of other variables, plus those.

I hate to be morbid, but you can see that in the last 2 Colorado avalanche fatalities. Father of 2 father of 1? Which decision stripped the outcome from being bearable?

You can get up early and take a pow lap at a hut while Mom is getting the kids up and if you fuck up and ski a slope 3 degrees more than the one you did for the last two days and then there is no Dad anymore. That shit just happened.

You put a little extra milk in their cereal, or not adjust your kids' socks, and it's slightly discomforting. Hell, you could smack your kid, or hold them back a grade and create an outcast. You could yell at your wife, or get divorced. Whatever.

Get what I'm saying? It's brutal, but it's true. Google Hayden Kennedy.

[byates1]

8 billion humans on the earth.

the earth is smaller than an atom, literally.

colorado is good in may, always sugar way down low.

sorry to hear about you loss.

[byates1]

i remember reading about that guy. fuck that, young, and an easy way out.

i much prefer to suffer.

[byates1]

You put a little extra milk in their cereal, or not adjust your kids' socks, and it's slightly discomforting. Hell, you could smack your kid, or hold them back a grade and create an OUTKAST. You could yell at your wife, or get divorced. Whatever.

[fastfred]

this thread is top notch for random life advice from strangers on the internet
I choose not to post much here cause I don't want to doosh up the solid advice

here is some take aways from life and this thread
women flip a switch when they are done they are done and don't really look back, guys on the other hand.....

when your twenty something don't have dick to your name, fall blisfully in love, get married, and suddenly create money and wealth together, then get divorced
well your screwed anyway you look at, it's not easy to end what is nothing more than a business arrangement
I'll be getting a prenup the next time around, not really a big deal, if she balks at the idea then she's not marriage material

I feel for the people who have kids and get divorced, ouch
I couldn't imagine the mess

I feel for people who spend tens of thousands of dollars on lawyers to just dismantle each other, I know plenty of people who do that
I guess I was lucky that we got along well enough that all I we needed was a mediator
but when the bitch is trying to take shit from you that isn't her's, it does get ugly and you end up bring up her arrest record, rehabs, and all that good shit that a normal intelligent polite person normally woldn't do

all is fair in love and war

[riser4]

Lucky enough my ex wife and I split everything down the middle without even an arbitrator.

Amicable, no kids. Good friend she was though.

And she let you keep the Harry Potter Jag.

[oftpiste]

but when the bitch is trying to take shit from you that isn't her's, it does get ugly and you end up bring up her arrest record, rehabs, and all that good shit that a normal intelligent polite person normally wouldn't do

None of which is legally relevant in a no-fault state, except for custody issues. This is where the 'breach of contract' argument is lost on me. Most contracts spell out specific definitions of breach and the consequences thereof. Not so much in marriages. And when you're young, see a bright future, in love, in lust, etc. 'breach of contract' is about the last thing on your mind. Should be, but it ain't.

[muted]

I plead ignorance, but what are people battling over besides kids or dogs? Don't people split it 50/50 usually? Or do people think they deserve more than that and that's when the battle starts? I can see HOW you divide stuff up would suck, but I can't think of anything I really care about that we share. Are wives going after your cars, bikes, skis, etc?

Or is it about alimony too?

[skaredshtles]

I plead ignorance, but what are people battling over besides kids or dogs? Don't people split it 50/50 usually? Or do people think they deserve more than that and that's when the battle starts? I can see HOW you divide stuff up would suck, but I can't think of anything I really care about that we share. Are wives going after your cars, bikes, skis, etc?

Or is it about alimony too?

Are you new to planet earth? People are, generally speaking, irrational morons. Throw in "that's mine/no that's mine" and a bunch of $$... yeah... people will fight over anything.

[oftpiste]

The definition of naivete right here.

I plead ignorance, but what are people battling over besides kids or dogs? Don't people split it 50/50 usually? Or do people think they deserve more than that and that's when the battle starts? I can see HOW you divide stuff up would suck, but I can't think of anything I really care about that we share. Are wives going after your cars, bikes, skis, etc?

Or is it about alimony too?

[muted]

Thanks guys, that really cleared it up for me.

[Meadow Skipper]

Thanks guys, that really cleared it up for me.

To directly answer, yes, sometimes people are reallt angry or otherwise lose their shit and use divorce to unfairly try and take the other person down hard. IME

[muted]

Right, but what is an example of taking someone down hard that has nothing to do with kids/dogs/etc.?

I and anyone who has ever been in a long relationship of course understands the 'why'.

[bagtagley]

Thanks guys, that really cleared it up for me.

Keep in mind that the most hurt will be the most vocal, rightfully so. I have friends that have had mostly painless divorces. No lawyers, just common sense and a common concern for the kids.

[Meadow Skipper]

Right, but what is an example of taking someone down hard that has nothing to do with kids/dogs/etc.?

I and anyone who has ever been in a long relationship of course understands the 'why'.

Ex #1’s approach was to empty the bank accounts, take half my retirement and keep all of hers, lay claim to everything she wanted and get half the value of all the rest. My kick-ass lawyer stopped that shit.

[dschane]

Not a divorce attorney and never been divorced, but to put muted's question another way -- rules vary among states. In Alaska (and I imagine lots of other states), the rules have a formula for division of marital assets, child support, etc. (and alimony is unusual). So, if two people can get maintain their objective reasonableness, they can take care of it all without an attorney. The courts are so clogged with this stuff, they've also created a program to get a divorce quickly and have attorneys help just for the day. If kids are not involved, you can have your divorce done quickly and with minimal expense.

Despite that, I've seen couples spend tens of thousands on attorneys and file motion upon motion for a variety of reasons such as to have the formula for child support recalculated in light of a change in insurance premiums -- the litigation of which costs more than the reduction in child support could ever justify. They just seem to cast away whatever objective reasonableness they once had, or their attorneys tell them or imply that their position is justifiable, or ____ - it's simply not understandable to anyone living outside that person's mind.

[Danno]

Right, but what is an example of taking someone down hard that has nothing to do with kids/dogs/etc.?

Some examples: fighting for all of the items that she thinks you really want, so as to hurt you more. And remember, many assets are not easy to value, so she could value all the things that she wants very low, and all the things you want as very high, and fight over every valuation. To the extent you have non-liquid assets that need to be sold or divided up, she could make it difficult to actually sell them, just because.

If someone wants to stick it to the other side, dividing up assets could be VERY difficult, even if no kids and dogs.

[muted]

Ex #1’s approach was to empty the bank accounts, take half my retirement and keep all of hers, lay claim to everything she wanted and get half the value of all the rest. My kick-ass lawyer stopped that shit.

That's crazy.

Some examples: fighting for all of the items that she thinks you really want, so as to hurt you more. And remember, many assets are not easy to value, so she could value all the things that she wants very low, and all the things you want as very high, and fight over every valuation. To the extent you have non-liquid assets that need to be sold or divided up, she could make it difficult to actually sell them, just because.

If someone wants to stick it to the other side, dividing up assets could be VERY difficult, even if no kids and dogs.

I guess it's hard for me to understand in my case, all I care about is my kids and not seeing them. That would destroy me. As for other stuff in the house, it was mostly bought at Ikea, it ain't worth shit!

[oftpiste]

Most states' rules are guidelines only and not hard and fast rules or laws for division. So while reasonable and fair is the goal there are many, many variables, especially if you end up in a courtroom. Two people maintaining objective reasonableness is unfortunately not what usually happens. Even if one party does, if the other doesn't everything goes to shit.

I had to spend tens of thousands not to get more, but to keep from getting fucked more. I had no choice - other than being homeless and without any money or assets - than to spend stupid amounts of money on lawyers. All reasonable attempts were made by me to be reasonable, honorable, and fair. Even then I ended up with only slightly more than 1/3 of the gross value of the marital community and she got a property generating thousands in monthly positive cash flow. She made no contributions to that value, and also walked away with hundreds of thousands of her own retirement money. My retirement plan was in investments, and she got two thirds of that and all of her own investments . Better than some, and better than what could have happened, but pretty fucked up.

I could have gone to court and taken the chance I'd come out a little better (chance being the key word) but I couldn't afford another $50k in legal bills even if though the payoff would have been better than $50k. I was drained and she had mommy paying her lawyer from bottomless resources.

And the system is not there to make sure everyone comes out solid. Thank god my kids were of age which saved the whole custody/child support mess. Alimony may be unusual, but spousal support is not and the end result is the same no matter what it's called.

Seriously guys, if you haven't been through this you really have no idea what you're talking about. Don't even try. The craziness that can happen is beyond comprehension and any definition of reasonableness. Consider yourselves fortunate that you haven't, and god forbid the shit ever hits the fan in your lives. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Not a divorce attorney and never been divorced, but to put muted's question another way -- rules vary among states. In Alaska (and I imagine lots of other states), the rules have a formula for division of marital assets, child support, etc. (and alimony is unusual). So, if two people can get maintain their objective reasonableness, they can take care of it all without an attorney. The courts are so clogged with this stuff, they've also created a program to get a divorce quickly and have attorneys help just for the day. If kids are not involved, you can have your divorce done quickly and with minimal expense.

Despite that, I've seen couples spend tens of thousands on attorneys and file motion upon motion for a variety of reasons such as to have the formula for child support recalculated in light of a change in insurance premiums -- the litigation of which costs more than the reduction in child support could ever justify. They just seem to cast away whatever objective reasonableness they once had, or their attorneys tell them or imply that their position is justifiable, or ____ - it's simply not understandable to anyone living outside that person's mind.

[muted]

Even then I ended up with only slightly more than 1/3 of the gross value of the marital community, for which I was 98% responsible for creating. Better than some, and better than what could have happened, but pretty fucked up.

I could have gone to court and taken the chance I'd come out a little better (chance being the key word) but I couldn't afford another $50k in legal bills even if though the payoff would have been better than $50k. I was drained and she had mommy paying her lawyer from bottomless resources.

How do people justify to a judge to get more than 50%? If no one cheated or was using retirement money for drugs, etc, what looks good to a judge?

Seriously guys, if you haven't been through this you really have no idea what you're talking about. Don't even try. The craziness that can happen is beyond comprehension and any definition of reasonableness. Consider yourselves fortunate that you haven't, and god forbid the shit ever hits the fan in your lives. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

That ain't aimed at me, right? I'm the one asking not telling. And that's only about how assets are divided, not why people act like people.

[oftpiste]

Again, there is no judge involved in asset division UNLESS YOU GO TO COURT. Anything else is an agreement between the parties. A judge has to sign it but will sign any agreement between parties. And she was the cheater FWIW. For years. But that doesn't matter. This is a no-fault state as many are.

If you go to court it's a complete crapshoot on outcome (and often favors the female) and costs at least an additional $50 k in legal fees.