Law Advice, re: white priveledge, etc.

[muted]

Actually, trespass laws in the West favor potential trespassers.....

I was talking about how trespassing is taken very seriously by land owners , not the cops/judicial system. Sign or not, they are often pissed and carrying a gun.

[TomCrac]

I thought the boundary was the foliage above the high water mark, or something like that?
What is the actual penalty for what you are charged with?

Clearly it depends on what color you are....duh.

[stuckathuntermtn]

We got some assholes around here claiming private road where it's county and trespassing where it's an easement, if not fs land outright.
Somehow, some signage wound up flung down a ravine toward the end of yesterday's ride. Don't know how that happened!
I think it has to do with these assholes trying to sell their place. Fuck 'em.
I love MT's access laws and access culture. Some people think because they're rich, they get to be feudal lords. They can blow me.
I would make it as hard to press these charges as possible, especially if you have access to a lawyer. Call them as witnesses, make them have to appear in court, make the state spend as much in prosecuting you as they collect in fines (it will just make them want to deal with it less).
Seriously, I have no idea where criminal trespass ranks in the continuum. I was under the impression that it was pretty low.

[single]

Its a full on misdemeanor, but its the least serious misdemeanor you can probably get.

I am not saying I didnt make a mistake, my only gripe is that I think the penalty of this giving me a criminal record is a little stiff. I am completely willing to owning up to my fuck up.

Drove 1.5 hours to virginia city today, judge wasnt there. They didnt think anyone was going to show up, seeing as most people probably pay the fine and move on. Had to skip all my morning classes, what a pain.

[BFD]

I read the wiki article on the landowner. seems like he supports what he believes in, waterfoul and wetlands conservation. I also found the Paths project interesting. I do not know about the electric fence and other acts he may have comitted to be hated by all of Montana. Maybe he understands stream bank destruction better than your average fisherman. I own two pieces of waterfront property. Fortunately they are remote and trespass is not an issue. If I saw the riparian zones on my property being damaged by human use I would not hesitate to take legal action.

[fatnslow]

Its a full on misdemeanor, but its the least serious misdemeanor you can probably get.

I am not saying I didnt make a mistake, my only gripe is that I think the penalty of this giving me a criminal record is a little stiff. I am completely willing to owning up to my fuck up.



Drove 1.5 hours to virginia city today, judge wasnt there. They didnt think anyone was going to show up, seeing as most people probably pay the fine and move on. Had to skip all my morning classes, what a pain.

Did you dress in western gear with six shooter walking up and down main street in VC ? I thought if you show up to a court time and members of the court is not present the case is dismissed ? I'm no lawyer so just asking all the attorneys on here.

[LightRanger]

^^^ Nope. If the judge isn't there, nothing happens other than rescheduling. If the other side isn't there, the judge might issue an order to show cause and have them explain themselves next time (sometimes that will be explaining why the case should not be dismissed for blowing off the court). There are variations, especially in criminal court.

[muted]

Its a full on misdemeanor, but its the least serious misdemeanor you can probably get.

I am not saying I didnt make a mistake, my only gripe is that I think the penalty of this giving me a criminal record is a little stiff. I am completely willing to owning up to my fuck up.

Drove 1.5 hours to virginia city today, judge wasnt there. They didnt think anyone was going to show up, seeing as most people probably pay the fine and move on. Had to skip all my morning classes, what a pain.

bummer. judge probably went fishing instead.

[TNKen]

bummer. judge probably went fishing instead.

On the gazillionair's property.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I'd ask in writing that the case be dismissed.
Not every job app asks about misdemeanors, either.
It might show up on a background check, and then they'd ask about it, and if you're honest, it probably won't matter.
Shit, sometimes they don't even do the check till after you've showed up for your first day. And again, they may not care since it's not a felony.
Were you actually arrested, or just given a summons? If the latter, that also helps.
I'd ask for a dismissal, since the judge wasn't there, a trial by mail if they refuse, and maybe offer to plea for a deferred sentence.
The fact that the judge was out fishing makes it pretty clear that they don't want to deal with it. It's an enormous amount of paperwork for very little, and it's for a known asshole. I'd say your outlook looks good.

[Conundrum]

Probably won't be helpful to OP... There's an area I fish in town here where I've had a couple run in's with the land watcher. In Idaho, if you access at a public spot, you can be in the river up to high water which sounds like your laws too. I accessed legally and waded up river and was yelled at through a loudspeaker that I was trespassing. It was clearly marked on the banks but I never left the water. I knew I wasn't in the wrong but it wasn't getting dark and I just snagged and just lost my fly so I politely waived and left. Went back the next week and same thing. This time I had brought a long a printed copy of the Idaho statutes in my waders. I yelled back that I had a copy of the statute to the bullhorn jackass and pulled it out and read the statute number and told him to call the cops if he wanted or that he could come out to me and read it but I wasn't going to step on the bank to bring it to him. He got in his truck and drove off. I fished for another hour without seeing any LEO.

I've also done some work with a local land trust and we had an owner put up a gate and no trespassing sign on land we held the easement to. We were out doing some vegetation work and the gate owner came up with a shotgun. We peacefully left (don't argue with people with guns). Came back the next week with an officer and the gate is now gone.

I don't know the area in question in this thread but I can tell you a lot of landowners here are overstepping their rights as property owners. I usually knock and ask permission and am most times turned down. Sucks losing access for not being wealthy and some opportunities might be worth the risk but you've got to be ready for the consequences which it sounds like you are.

It sucks and it's unfortunate that you happened upon an assholes land. I'm surprised the guy with the gopro didn't give you a by on that one but it sounds like he has an asshole for a boss.

[single]

I was just given a summons and cited.

I think it will all work out, the only trouble is my previous misdemeanor for criminal trespass, which is why I think needed to involve a lawyer. The court in VC is only open from 9am to Noon on tuesdays, which luckily screws up my school schedule quite a bit. I wont be making this mistake twice. I am just going to stay at home and watch netflix from now on.

[DasBlunt]

If you want to take the real 'white privilege' route, contact the land owner directly and offer to settle out of court and have him drop the charges in writing. Pay him the $1000 you would have spent on a lawyer. Hell, that's probably what the guy wants as this is his primary source of income. Why else was he stalking you with a gobro?

This is the real white privilege, buy your way out of trouble. Ignore all these other scrubs telling you to lawyer up and fight.

actually a really great idea. write a letter as to your current age and situation. Mention the guys alma mater for even more brown nose points. Don't offer any money/cards until you get a reply though.....

Some of the advice here is not good and suggests to do things in a way that only benefit the courts and lawyers. If you say certain things to an assist DA, they are going to run with it to get a case.

[teledave]

See a lawyer before you show up for your next court date. $200 to a good local lawyer will let you know where you stand and how to progress. This guy is a major player and he doesn't want you anywhere around his property. Hell, I even know about the access he has been fighting to have closed down in the West (along with all the $$$ he has thrown around to get his own way) and I'm in East TN. You can't buy him, you can't reason with him, he will push as hard as he can to make sure you pay for your transgressions. Your whole situation and how it's handled is likely going to come down to how big a buddy this guy and the judge are. My gut tells me you're screwed.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I was just given a summons and cited.

I think it will all work out, the only trouble is my previous misdemeanor for criminal trespass, which is why I think needed to involve a lawyer. The court in VC is only open from 9am to Noon on tuesdays, which luckily screws up my school schedule quite a bit. I wont be making this mistake twice. I am just going to stay at home and watch netflix from now on.

No joke, sometimes the county attorney will just ask for dismissal.
It sounds like you're in a position (rightfully) to make this really difficult to go to trial. In these stupid minor matters, sometimes the attorney's office will just ask that the case be dismissed since it's not worth the paperwork. Good luck!

[single]

Got it deferred, judge was super cool.

[robgoose]

deferment in contemplation of dismissal? If so, congrats and be careful for the next 6 months.

[that dude who did that thing]

Got it deferred, judge was super cool.

Judge probably thinks the landowner is an asshole also. I've also dealt with that court, I think. they were super mellow.

[TNKen]

Did you have to lawyer up or did they just handle it for you?

[iceman]

You white folks get all the breaks.

[single]

deferment in contemplation of dismissal? If so, congrats and be careful for the next 6 months.

exactly

Judge probably thinks the landowner is an asshole also. I've also dealt with that court, I think. they were super mellow.

yeah, she was a fisherwoman and said I didnt need to apologize to him. She had her dog with her and it kept barking while she was talking, pretty small town court.

Did you have to lawyer up or did they just handle it for you?

I asked a lawyer for advice and then just went there myself, so I think I have an hour or so of lawyer time to pay. Definitely worth it.

[single]

You white folks get all the breaks.

[iceman]

[Harry]

The newest edition of Outside Bozeman (Fall 2015) has a GREAT article on the dickbag bazillionaire and his shenanigans trying to keep fishermen off the Ruby River. Their online edition is still showing the Summer 2015 edition, so no link yet.


Donate here: http://www.plwa.org These are the grassroots fisherman who hired a lawyer and forced him to take down the barbed wire he had strung all across the river and the bridge.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Oh, I didn't see that this was resolved. Awesome sauce.