Waxless/Fishscale BC skis ?

[Quadzilla]

I had seen some of your posts and a few other people on other sites, about the TTS + light AT boots, and when I found a pair of Proclines for 75% off I thought I would give it a try. I will try out the free heel AT before customizing the TTS. Thanks for the responses

Free heel downhill takes practice as your feet need to be pinned to the skis with no leverage from shins to boots. But it is a skill you really need with tech bindings to deal with rolling terrain.......

[alexstrong]

Quadzilla,
That was my interest in the TTS, to get a little extra leverage.

[GeezerSteve]

Free heel downhill takes practice as your feet need to be pinned to the skis with no leverage from shins to boots.

It's second nature for an experienced XC skier in a Nordic State of Mind. Works fine for low angle once you get it.

[SchralphMacchio]

Timely thread bump!

I don’t have much experience - got a used Rossi BC 125 setup last winter, mounted with Voile Hardwires and driving with Alico Guide leather boots (no ankle strap on these). But I had a concussion and shoulder surgery last winter so I only took them out twice, pins only, never tried with cartridge cable. I suspect at some point I’ll need a more appropriate boot setup for days I want to make more than a couple turns - my ankles were damn sore just trying them out on local fire roads!

Just got my wife brand new Rossi BC 100’s, brand new Voile Traverse binders (3 pin cable with half height riser compared to the Hardwires), and she has the same boots as me. That setup seems pretty well balanced for the rolling terrain we have up at Santiam and Willamette Passes.

I’m looking forward to winter tromping with these things!

[Aenigma]

It's second nature for an experienced XC skier in a Nordic State of Mind. Works fine for low angle once you get it.

x2. Especially when you think of doing short downhill/flat while floundering around with skins on. It's just a matter of staying balanced and not leaning on your boots (though I still find myself on my ass from time to time...)

Trimmed down my setup to Hypervector BC/Plum 170/Alien RS last year, and am super, super happy with it. Cruising 15-20 miles into the Winds or across miles of flat valleys in Yellowstone is pretty darn pleasant with a setup that tours like xc and can ski whatever. Still use "regular" skis about half the time I go out, but the scaly skis sure fill a niche.

[evasive_MT]

I’ve had a pair of Guides with Switchbacks for about 11 years, and have wanted to upgrade to a Voile AT setup for a while now. This is the year, so hopefully La Niña pans out. I’m going with the 183 Hyper V6 BC with Zed 12 bindings. Maestrale boots. Fiancé is doing something similar with BC100s, Zed 9s and Geas.

Everything is sitting in the shop waiting for their G3 shipment. With studded fatbike tires, we should be able to play just about any day regardless of conditions.

[Quadzilla]

I’ve had a pair of Guides with Switchbacks for about 11 years, and have wanted to upgrade to a Voile AT setup for a while now. This is the year, so hopefully La Niña pans out. I’m going with the 183 Hyper V6 BC with Zed 12 bindings. Maestrale boots. Fiancé is doing something similar with BC100s, Zed 9s and Geas.

Everything is sitting in the shop waiting for their G3 shipment. With studded fatbike tires, we should be able to play just about any day regardless of conditions.

I think I have posted on this topic before as I am a fishscale skier. I think the package you are putting together for yourself is going to amaze you on how well it will climb the up and ski the down. Of course you will need skins for any worthy climb. I have a similar setup with Hyper Vectors/Radicals and Maestrales. WTBS, I really think your GF can do better than Rossi BC100's but the rest of her package sounds great. Regardless, she will need skins too. IMO

[~mikey b]

if y'all were going to mount a Voile V6BC with a G3 Targa for a Crispi CXT boot to use on snow survey tours that are mostly meadow skipping and rolling terrain for a couple hours to a week, would you mount them old school pins on ski center or boot center at ski center or maybe split the difference?

[evasive_MT]

I think I have posted on this topic before as I am a fishscale skier. I think the package you are putting together for yourself is going to amaze you on how well it will climb the up and ski the down. Of course you will need skins for any worthy climb. I have a similar setup with Hyper Vectors/Radicals and Maestrales. WTBS, I really think your GF can do better than Rossi BC100's but the rest of her package sounds great. Regardless, she will need skins too. IMO

Re: her BC100s- no argument there. We’re kind of approaching similar points from different directions. She’s more interested in having a very stable platform for touring since she has a non-union clavicle break and has trouble with her basic metal edged touring setup. With floppy boots and thin touring skis that are fairly tall relative to their waist, she ends up over relying on her poles for stability and it blows her arm up. We’re basically solving her issue with the nuclear option and setting her up to try a different style of skiing. If she develops a taste for backcountry turns, we can upgrade her skis.

We do have skins, too. G3 finally shipped, so we’ll pick everything up tomorrow.

[~mikey b]

Voile recommended boot center at ski center

[SchralphMacchio]

What’s the best wax solution for preventing clumping on waxless bases? This is for PNWet.

[~mikey b]

Zardoz

[Quadzilla]

What’s the best wax solution for preventing clumping on waxless bases? This is for PNWet.

Ive tried all kinds of stuff over the years on scales and things like F4 paste can work decently but expensive. What I am using now is cheap, easy and works as good or better. I have a 1oz spray bottle filled with Glycerin and a little rubbing alcohol. I keep it in a sandwich bag with a small rag in my pack. If glopping occurs I just scrap off the glop with a plastic card and spray and wipe the Glycerin mix on the scales and works great. As far as skin glopping, I hot wax my skins with warm ski wax and hardly ever have a problem with them either. WTBS, skiing Spring snow later in the day and skiing a nice sunny corn/wetish slope and then going thru some shade will give you that OTB feeling............ Fishscales or regular bases............

[HHTELE]

Voile recommended boot center at ski center

I am pretty sure that what you mean is boot center at boot center mark. Which is probably 6-7 cm back from the center of the ski.

[Name Redacted]

So the wife just got a nice little setup and I'm now in the market to try to keep up with her. She got some Fischer S Bound 112s w/ three pin cables and Scarpa T4's.

Question is, since I weight almost twice as much as her, should I get the same setup in 189's or should I step it up to a Voile V6 or something.
Also, Boots, should I go with some T4's or something lighter? I wouldn't mind just a really comfortable leather boot, but still want to make some turns sometimes.

Mainly going to be used on mellow ass jeep roads, golf courses, etc, but could see some downhill action, our golf course is pretty steep. Might skin up the resort on em with some kicker skins just to see if they'll do it I guess.

[Peruvian]

More kick and glide with control on downhills = S Bounds, Madshus Annum or Epoch, pins and T4s or Garmont Excursions.

More downhill oriented with some long approaches = Voile BC skis with a free pivot, cable binding and 3-4 buckle tele boots (or very light tech bindings and light boots).

[Name Redacted]

More kick and glide with control on downhills = S Bounds, Madshus Annum or Epoch, pins and T4s or Garmont Excursions.

More downhill oriented with some long approaches = Voile BC skis with a free pivot, cable binding and 3-4 buckle tele boots (or very light tech bindings and light boots).

Damn, that was about the best answer I've ever gotten on TGR and in record time to boot! Thanks dude!


Seriously, I can pick big skis and boots no problem, but stepping down to the lightweight stuff totally perplexes me. There's so many damn options and levels of performance. I had NNNBC stuff a while back and hated it. Looking forward to some lightweight fuck-around kinda skis that still have a little control on the DH.

[chicken feathers]

^Voile Objective BC/3 pin mountineer on hardwire riser/T3's

Wife was there with the same ski/binding combo but on leather boots. Another in the group was on a G3 fish scale ski and a 3pin/leather boot. There were also some Voile V6 BC skis in the group, one with a light alpine binding/boot and another on free pivot tele/T2 setups.

[glademaster]

Mainly going to be used on mellow ass jeep roads, golf courses, etc, but could see some downhill action, our golf course is pretty steep. Might skin up the resort on em with some kicker skins just to see if they'll do it I guess.

Narrow full length skins > kicker skins. Go full length but they should be about waist width throughout.

[Name Redacted]

Narrow full length skins > kicker skins. Go full length but they should be about waist width throughout.

The Fischers have a built in kicker skin system. Probably try that first and chop up some old skins if I still need more traction. It'd be nice if they had a ptex strip to cover the scales on the way down.

I'm finding it really hard to not want to just get a lightweight non-scaled tele setup and just use skins. It's really hard to not want something more DH oriented but I have to remember that these are for going out and just chilling out in the woods. I already have a shitload of AT gear that can go downhill just fine.

[glademaster]

Ah, that's cool, I didn't know that about the Fischers. IME, kicker skins have a tendency to act like snowplows on skis without a ton of camber underfoot, but if it's integrated into the ski design, then I bet they'll work better.

The extra drag from the fishscales will be nice when you're skiing down an icy hiking trail that only has 8 inches of snow over roots and rocks, because Colorado.

[chicken feathers]

I'm finding it really hard to not want to just get a lightweight non-scaled tele setup and just use skins. It's really hard to not want something more DH oriented but I have to remember that these are for going out and just chilling out in the woods. I already have a shitload of AT gear that can go downhill just fine.

You could do that. Waxing works just as well as fish scales as you probably know, probably better as some would argue. There are advantages to each of course, depending on conditions. The main advantage of patterned skis is the simplicity of not having to wax or use skins IMO.

[Name Redacted]

You could do that. Waxing works just as well as fish scales as you probably know, probably better as some would argue. There are advantages to each of course, depending on conditions. The main advantage of patterned skis is the simplicity of not having to wax or use skins IMO.

Yeah, I'm trying really hard to remind myself that I just want something simple and comfortable. Not easy for me.

[3PinGrin]

You could do that. Waxing works just as well as fish scales as you probably know, probably better as some would argue. There are advantages to each of course, depending on conditions. The main advantage of patterned skis is the simplicity of not having to wax or use skins IMO.

I got rid of waxless skis in favor of kickwaxing even on bigger skis, although I sold the Elan Lhotses that I was using for that purpose since I'm on A/T gear now and it is so light I just use it for everything except true nordic. The only advantage of waxless is simplicity and convenience. However, as you noted, it is condition dependent. Waxing is very simple in cold dry climates but can be miserable in warm wet conditions. Far superior for grip and glide compared to any waxless skis I have owned. Plus you don't come to an instant stop when you hit a sharp rock on an icy run out or have to deal with the annoying drag and bzzzzz... bzzzz sound.

Never tried Voile but did have Fischer Boundless crowns that I came to despise. Everything I have read says the Voiles are superior to those Fischers for grip/glide and also less camber, would like to try a pair out of curiosity. I do have one pair of beater waxless nordic skis for low snow or warm conditions.

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[glademaster]

So how much slower are fat fishscale skis like the V6/Vector on low angle, shallow powder and packed run outs? It seems like opinions vary on how much of a hindrance that really is.

I just picked up a pair to make lower angle tours/strolls in the woods on skis more enjoyable than always having to have skins on.