Architecture

[Bromontana]

Architecture porn tread ya

[iceman]

edit: worthless drivel was here

[nickwm21]

You go to school thinking you are going to design beautiful exterior facades, yet you end up spending your career drafting toilet partition elevations for $40k a year. #truth.

[BigDaddy]

Architects - the kids who realized in college they weren't smart enough to be engineers or talented enough to be artists.

Ouch!... Or maybe the offspring of an engineer and artist.

You're just jealous we work more hours for less pay, yet you still have all that trouble making it stand up.

[brice618]

Ouch!... Or maybe the offspring of an engineer and artist.

You're just jealous we work more hours for less pay, yet you still have all that trouble making it stand up.

Structural guys seem to be more competent in my experience (if a pain in the ass). It's the MEP guys who are space cadets.

The income to education / liability ratio for architects is pretty absurd.

[LightRanger]

Serious note, Adventure Journal's Weekend Cabin series is awesome:
http://adventure-journal.com/weekend-cabin/

[Below Zero]

You go to school thinking you are going to design beautiful exterior facades, yet you end up spending your career drafting toilet partition elevations for $40k a year. #truth.

Here's the problem with architects. They get built up in school thinking they are going to design beautiful and timeless buildings, then the get into a firm with wide eyed aspirations of greatness and how they are going to change the world with there sustainable design and enlightening spaces. Then they decide to take the test. Once they've passed the test they find out they aren't going to get a significant pay raise; at this time their hopes and dreams begin to fade. Then 10 years later, they're thinking, why in the hell did I become an architect?

[neufox47]

Most really successful architects are ego maniacs in my experience. I've seen many firms that are making money hand over fist and paying senior architects peanuts and demanding them to work 80 hrs a week.

[Below Zero]

Most really successful architects are ego maniacs in my experience. I've seen many firms that are making money hand over fist and paying senior architects peanuts and demanding them to work 80 hrs a week.

I guess it matters how you define "success". Architects have varying opinions of what determines one to be "successful". Your last sentence is true, and it's sad that many architects will conform to this; myself did not and never will. If I had to give any advice to a high school student who wants to become an architect, I would tell them to use their architecture degree and subsequent license to something else besides traditional architecture. Just my two cents.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Where I live, most architecture firms employ engineers. When this isn't the case, is when problems arise. Architects draw a pretty picture of a house and the engineer makes sure it doesn't fall down. In residential housing, the process is all fucked up. The architects get the client all fired up on designs that are "cool, exciting, different". The engineer then specs a bunch of steel and concrete to make it work. The GC looks at the plans, prices it at $250/sq. ft. and mentions that the site drainage sucks and that 2/3s of your roof drains into a valley that dumps in front of your entry. And now we get to start again. Architecture as art should be reserved for landmark buildings. If you want to build a house, pick one out of the book and go from there.

[Below Zero]

Architects draw a pretty picture of a house and....The architects get the client all fired up on designs that are "cool, exciting, different"....The GC looks at the plans, prices it at $250/sq. ft. and mentions that the site drainage sucks and that 2/3s of your roof drains into a valley that dumps in front of your entry. And now we get to start again.

As much as it pains to me to say this...I generally agree. Many (I won't say most) architects don't really undestand how buildings actually go together. I blame the schools because the schools concentrate too much on design, and not enough on construction, methods, materials, building science, etc. I thought I knew shit out of school, but I didn't know shit until I started getting on the job site and speaking with contractors. Either in school or during internship, architects should have to actually go out and build a house or something.

[Foggy_Goggles]

...or at least tell them to wear closed toe shoes on the jobsite. Many homeowners, architects, interior designers don't understand that it's a game with contractors to make the jobsite as uncomfortable as possible for you. We try to make as much noise and mess are possible when you're around. I usually give one, "excuse me" then it's nail gun in your ear, grinder shooting all over your cloths, block you into the driveway, make you make to set up a ladder etc.

[matoco]

Working for a commercial gc, it is very frustrating to me how little A/E's own their design anymore. Nothing is actually constructable, mep coordination during design is sometimes nonexistent, and they are very overstretched and focused on keeping their fees low.

Then as the GC, you are the bearer or bad news when they find out their ceilings have to lower or get soffits to fit the mep equipment in there. Everyone gets mad at the contractors and says we are being salty, but the issue started with improper design.

End rant.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Try working residential. One on the reasons that I quit framing was a total lack of any MEP. I used to be able to talk to the generals, plumbers and sparkys and figure it out. Nowadays, it hard to get anyone to even understand what you're talking about. 2x4 plumbing walls, chases and soffits everywhere, trades hacking up I-joists, it's all normal. Even on many large custom homes, very few people work custom anymore. Things like "I need to know the cabinet plan so I can lay out the can lights with the sparky so that the T&G ceiling breaks exactly even on the can trim" is something beyond most people's comprehension.

[The SnowShow]

Working for a commercial gc, it is very frustrating to me how little A/E's own their design anymore. Nothing is actually constructable, mep coordination during design is sometimes nonexistent, and they are very overstretched and focused on keeping their fees low.

Then as the GC, you are the bearer or bad news when they find out their ceilings have to lower or get soffits to fit the mep equipment in there. Everyone gets mad at the contractors and says we are being salty, but the issue started with improper design.

End rant.

That's why I use Revit and model any big MEP or structure that may impact the architecture.

[Flounder]

Even on many large custom homes, very few people work custom anymore. Things like "I need to know the cabinet plan so I can lay out the can lights with the sparky so that the T&G ceiling breaks exactly even on the can trim" is something beyond most people's comprehension.

Very true. There are architects that can't figure out how to build anything just like there are engineers that would rather size everything double what it needs to be, electricians who can't read a plan, and framers who can't line up the tops of doors and windows so I can run interior trim around the room. So many humans are idiots that they end up in most every profession.

[::: :::]

the issue started with improper budget.
End rant.

FIFY

[::: :::]

Very true. There are architects that can't figure out how to build anything just like there are engineers that would rather size everything double what it needs to be, electricians who can't read a plan, and framers who can't line up the tops of doors and windows so I can run interior trim around the room. So many humans are idiots that they end up in most every profession.

Preach, brother
Amen

[::: :::]

If you want to build a house, pick one out of the book and go from there.

Architecture isn't a commodified product. The fact that the general public treats it that way is part of the problem. Buildings are complicated. Even if you want to plop the same structure down in different places, you have to plan on making specific adjustments to make it work. Owners aren't involved in the details of making those adjustments happen and don't understand why it can't be the same.

Some special clients do understand and appreciate doing more than just providing a code compliant shelter. I want to work for those clients; they always have the most satisfying projects for all members of the team involved (design & build members of the team). It's always cool to me when everybody is proud to point out the building and say "I worked on that".

[BigDaddy]

Savior those rare moments.

[nickwm21]

I work for a national GC, currently on a $300m OSHPD hospital.

The architecture firm staffed one architect, one draftsman, and one CA guy.

The SE firm staffed a principle, a SE for make ready, SE for foundations, SE for superstructure, several draftsman, and 2 EITs for backup.

I bet you can guess who's design is buildable.

[The Suit]

Some special clients do understand and appreciate doing more than just providing a code compliant shelter. I want to work for those clients; they always have the most satisfying projects for all members of the team involved (design & build members of the team). It's always cool to me when everybody is proud to point out the building and say "I worked on that".

My wife & I were one of those special clients once. We lost a lot of money on that house.

[brice618]

As much as it pains to me to say this...I generally agree. Many (I won't say most) architects don't really undestand how buildings actually go together. I blame the schools because the schools concentrate too much on design, and not enough on construction, methods, materials, building science, etc. I thought I knew shit out of school, but I didn't know shit until I started getting on the job site and speaking with contractors. Either in school or during internship, architects should have to actually go out and build a house or something.

I finished my grad work, dicked around a few years and then built a few houses and the related finish carpentry and millwork before I took a serious architecture gig. I'm one test from having my license now, and when testing it feels like I know too much about how the industry actually works to answer some of the questions. I agree that there is a major disconnect between academia and actual real world, put food on the table and have a good quality of life architecture, but, I don't think you could feasibly learn all the broad concepts, how to design, and the quantitative knowledge and come out of school with much more building intellect than what most people have now. The internship is well served in this regard. Maybe I'm just weird because I wanted to get out and swing a hammer.

I'm fortunate enough to have great relationships with almost all the contractors I work with, many subs included. I fuck up, I own it, they fuck up, they own it, and we all figure out the best way to get out of it without a bunch of pissing contests. The reality is that A/E's and contractors rarely have the same interests at the same time, and it's difficult for them both to see the other guys side. I digress.

As far as residential work goes, it's definitely true that most people don't need an architect and that most residential architects aren't doing much real design work, but who hasn't seen 100,000 shitty "custom" home builder houses full of stupid construction decisions, bad details, wrong wall systems, bad foundations, the list is literally endless (and never mind spec homes).

[::: :::]

I work for a national GC, currently on a $300m OSHPD hospital.

The architecture firm staffed one architect, one draftsman, and one CA guy.

I'm sorry, but even for shitty design and a shirty fee, I just do not find this credible.
A $300m construction budget can pay for a lot more design hours than 3 people.

[brice618]

I'm sorry, but even for shitty design and a shirty fee, I just do not find this credible.
A $300m construction budget can pay for a lot more design hours than 3 people.

Lop off a '0' from that number and his staffing is right. But knowing the average big AE firms out there, I wouldn't be shocked if they had some mental arithmetic that could make 3 people somehow seem ok. I have many friends working for a variety of big firms who regularly go missing for several days. It's pathetic and I'd rather do meat and potatoes than live that quality of life.