Khion vs Merc vs Vulcan vs Mtn Lab vs Maestrale RS

**galibier_numero_un** · 12-27-2015, 12:01 AM

Hi BurnHard,

Maybe start by playing with minor adjustments to the foot bed. Your comment about repositioning the footbed would suggest this.

I'm not sure why you haven't molded your liners, but not doing so could lead you to trying to over tighten your instep buckle to compensate. I'd seriously consider molding the liners.

If the above doesn't work, I wonder if you have a shell volume issue (too large) - a situation which could lead to your overtightening the instep buckle and distorting the shell?

Cheers,
Thom

**tompietrowski** · 12-27-2015, 02:55 PM

To those wondering about the added buckle some of the pros have done, the versionsi have seen have used the ratchet style found on the scarpa tornado for example. Fairly easy to add as there is a good amount of space. Look out at sia for some updates which may include the exta buckle.

**robnow** · 12-27-2015, 04:58 PM

Ended up getting my Mtn Labs punched on medial malleolus yesterday at All In in Fernie, they have a super good reputation for fitting in Western Canada. Should have done this right away but they also got me to try a cork liner out of a Doberman GP for resort biased days so the original liners wouldn't punch out as much for tour days, makes sense. Great results today at the resort in deep and packed pow for minimal cost. I'd say they're 90% now of what my Lange130s are, something though (I'm guessing the lighter weight because they definitely feel stiff enough) I need to be a little more attentive than on more cruise control with the Langes driving a regular weight ski (ON3P BG). Oh, first time I've been warm enough in a boot with the stock Lab liner, downside with the GP liner is my feet are back to ice bricks.

Note: after first couple days swapped out stock strap for Booster for a bit more give and progression.

**BurnHard** · 12-27-2015, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by gregL

Your arch is on the plantar surface of your foot (underneath) and not punchable. If you mean the medial midfoot of the boot shell just above the arch, then yes it's as easy to punch it there as anywhere on the periphery of the boot. Post a picture of your foot and point out the area you're talking about and I can confirm.

Hey thanks for the help. Red marks the area of pain. In the MTN Lab, the pain is mostly in that rear area. The bunion/big toe area still hurts a little bit, but it's much better than the Maestrale RS and I know it's punchable.

I have a flat foot, standard instep (measures the same as my Mondo size 28.5/29), narrow'ish heel, wide'ish ankle bones, medium-wide foot with a big bunion and long-ass toe. Should I even be considering the MTN Labs? I'm finally convinced to go the two-boot-quiver route and start with the Atomic Backland Carbon as my lightweight touring boot. The MTN Lab or similar would be an awesome secondary allrounder...

**gregL** · 12-27-2015, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by BurnHard

Should I even be considering the MTN Labs? I'm finally convinced to go the two-boot-quiver route and start with the Atomic Backland Carbon as my lightweight touring boot. The MTN Lab or similar would be an awesome secondary allrounder...

Go for it. No problem punching the navicular area (large circled area on your foot) or the first met head (small area), I did both extensively on my MTN Labs. The flat finish Grilamid gets a bit shiny with heat but holds a punch very well; the MTN Lab is no more difficult than a Maestrale RS or a Vulcan.

FWIW, that's the same two boot quiver I'm using this season.

**gregL** · 12-27-2015, 09:17 PM

PS Used the setup shown in the photo below (older "mushroom" fitting on a 1" extension with large SVST ring) in two spots to punch the midfoot/navicular area:

http://randosaigai.com/mtn_lab111715_003.jpg

**nyskirat** · 02-22-2016, 01:38 PM

Alright, bumping this older thread.

Just finished a 5 day vacation in Jackson Hole, doing some touring in the pass (Glory, Taylor, Oliver,) and some resort skiing. I used my 2012-2013 Cochise Pro Lights with PWs (26.5), and found myself in quite the uncomfortable position. I fit the boots for performance fit (1 finger behind the heel), which resulted in some severe toe cramping by the end of the tours. I also found that the heel hold was lacking which resulted in a few blisters (and a swollen ankle from something).

This, combined with the 200+ days in the boots, I figure it is time for a new pair come next season. I was curious to hear about peoples experiences with the Khion, Lab, and new Cochise/ZeroG fit. I know a boot fitter is the way to go and will visit one. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a single shop that carries all three (Outdoor Gear Exchange has the Dynafit and Technica options but no Lab), so I cannot compare them all together in one go.

**Lindahl** · 02-22-2016, 02:41 PM

From what I'm hearing, the new ZeroG is about 3mm narrower all around. The new Cochise is a bit wider than the ZeroG though. Should have better heel hold as well.

**Judo Chop!** · 02-22-2016, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

From what I'm hearing, the new ZeroG is about 3mm narrower all around. The new Cochise is a bit wider than the ZeroG though. Should have better heel hold as well.

which do you mean should have better heel hold of the two? why?

**Lindahl** · 02-22-2016, 03:24 PM

Its a more sculpted ankle pocket. Both perhaps? The ZeroG is what I heard though.

**bennymac** · 03-20-2016, 10:38 PM

did the buckle mod to allow for easy one handed loosening of the strap - this worked great.

I also added a removable key ring which stops the strap at max opening without it passing completely through the buckle. You can just pull on the toggle hard and the strap opens to just where you want it.

The key ring also gives you something easy to grasp when pulling on that end of the strap to tighten it.

You can easily take the keyring off at the end of the day to allow the strap to come out so you can remove your boots.

Name: IMG_4935 (2).JPG
Views: 1454
Size: 107.3 KB

**nickel** · 03-21-2016, 10:36 AM

There was a lot of negative or lukewarm at best feedback about the khions in this thread. I'm just here to say that after a bunch of tours in mine, I like them quite a bit. Light, walk well, ski well.

**20:59** · 03-25-2016, 06:18 AM

Can anyone compare the fit between these boots (especially Maestrale rs) and Nordica Dobermann 130 / Jah Love? I have the jah loves for everyday use, and their shape and fit is just perfect for my feet. My current touring boots are dynafit Zzeus, they never actually ended feeling too great. Lots of punching done, still get some pain especially at the beginning of the day, before the uphill has warmed and softened/molded the boots. I've got size 25.5 jah love and size 26 zzeus.
I would love to find a touring boot that fits like my alpine boots, is reasonably stiff and chargeable, warm, not too heavy.. Only going to use them with tech bindings, so no need for interchangeable soles.
Any experiences would be highly appreciated!

**CaliBrit** · 03-25-2016, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by 20:59

Can anyone compare the fit between these boots (especially Maestrale rs) and Nordica Dobermann 130 / Jah Love? I have the jah loves for everyday use, and their shape and fit is just perfect for my feet. My current touring boots are dynafit Zzeus, they never actually ended feeling too great. Lots of punching done, still get some pain especially at the beginning of the day, before the uphill has warmed and softened/molded the boots. I've got size 25.5 jah love and size 26 zzeus.
I would love to find a touring boot that fits like my alpine boots, is reasonably stiff and chargeable, warm, not too heavy.. Only going to use them with tech bindings, so no need for interchangeable soles.
Any experiences would be highly appreciated!

Sounds like you should look at the Cochise pro.

**XXX-er** · 03-25-2016, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by nickel

There was a lot of negative or lukewarm at best feedback about the khions in this thread. I'm just here to say that after a bunch of tours in mine, I like them quite a bit. Light, walk well, ski well.

Unfortunately the khion gets compared to the Vulcan which was very popular

**20:59** · 03-25-2016, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by CaliBrit

Sounds like you should look at the Cochise pro.

No, too heavy and seems clumsy. I'd say a little over 3kgs/pair is a max weightwise. Good tourability is high on the list too. My only concern is about the fit. Can't really go and try them all on, so any help here would be great.

**CaliBrit** · 03-25-2016, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by 20:59

No, too heavy and seems clumsy. I'd say a little over 3kgs/pair is a max weightwise. Good tourability is high on the list too. My only concern is about the fit. Can't really go and try them all on, so any help here would be great.

Goldilocks eh? What you want may not exist.

Or it's the mtn lab.

**nickel** · 03-27-2016, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

Unfortunately the khion gets compared to the Vulcan which was very popular

Yeah, I never got to try it as it didn't even come close to fitting my foot. Khions fit out of the box, ski and walk very well, and the buckles are a dream.

**rewbn** · 10-17-2016, 10:46 AM

Silly question as I really should be headed somewhere where I can actually try on some boots, but truth to be told I don't have anywhere close to go, so I figured I'd at least ask to begin with:

Anyone coming from Vulcans/Mercuries having switched to MTN Labs and can give me some input in regards to fit? My old Mercuries are beyond beaten up and I need new boots. Aside from tossing the factory liners in the bin and replacing them with Intuitions and adding custom footbeds I haven't done anything to the Mercury. Initially they were very tight over my instep but they were fine with Intuitions. Anyone reckon the MTN Labs will fit? I've read somewhere they tend to run big, do people usually need to size down with these?

**gregL** · 10-17-2016, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by rewbn

Anyone coming from Vulcans/Mercuries having switched to MTN Labs and can give me some input in regards to fit? My old Mercuries are beyond beaten up and I need new boots. Aside from tossing the factory liners in the bin and replacing them with Intuitions and adding custom footbeds I haven't done anything to the Mercury. Initially they were very tight over my instep but they were fine with Intuitions. Anyone reckon the MTN Labs will fit? I've read somewhere they tend to run big, do people usually need to size down with these?

I had the Mercury in a 27.5 and currently own the MTN Lab in a 26.5. The key is taller instep height in the MTN Lab, not that the interior length of the boot runs big - I can also wear a 26.5 in a new TLT6 or TLT7 because of the increased midfoot volume. If the Mercury fits you perfectly, you will find the Salomon MTN boots looser over the instep, narrower across the metatarsals, and lower in the front of the toebox. In the heel and midfoot they are very similar.

**rewbn** · 10-17-2016, 01:59 PM

Thanks for the input. The Mercury was very tight over the instep with the shitty factory liner that had a lot of unnecessary material right over the instep, felt quite good with Intuition liners. I've got TLT6's in 26 also, factory liners but punched on my 1st metatarsal. Very snug fit but comfy enough to keep on all day without any major issues. Hmmm. I'll have to plan a weekend vacay to go try on boots, I think. Hopefully the misses will approve

**XXX-er** · 10-17-2016, 04:55 PM

Guido went from Mercurys to Salomon's and it didn't work

**gregL** · 10-17-2016, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

Guido went from Mercurys to Salomon's and it didn't work

Plenty of other people did the same and are very happy. If you needed the forefoot width and height in the Mercury you'll need a good bootfitter to punch the MTN Lab. If you thought the instep height on the Mercury was fine, you'll find the MTN Lab too high.

I was happy with the instep fit on the MTN Lab, punched the crap out of the boot at both 1st and 5th met heads, and widened the medial midfoot from ankle to navicular. Now it fits like a glove, though you have to accept a bit less height in the toebox.

**auvgeek** · 10-17-2016, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by gregL

In the heel and midfoot they are very similar.

I'm trying to reconcile this with my experience. I own Vulcans; when I tried the Mtn Lab on in the shop, I thought the heel wasn't locked down nearly as well. Maybe the difference is buckle placement? Or maybe you have a wide enough heel that it doesn't make a difference?

Forefoot definitely narrower in Mtn Lab, especially across the met heads, like you mentioned.

**gregL** · 10-17-2016, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

I own Vulcans; when I tried the Mtn Lab on in the shop, I thought the heel wasn't locked down nearly as well. Maybe the difference is buckle placement? Or maybe you have a wide enough heel that it doesn't make a difference?

Hard to say - I didn't think either heel was especially snug, and I needed a similar punch in the medial midfoot in both.