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  1. #576
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    6,062
    The bike industry has aids-cancer.....

    So from a different industry angle (Superstar Components), ie the aftermarket wheel retailer, we have had pretty much no interest in 27+ wheels.

    It was a classic bike industry "whats next years big thing", which works as follows (feel free to drop in any niche):

    1- Niche brand wants something new and niche to make them stand out from the gazillion other people selling the same stuff to the same people. they sell tiny numbers
    2- Big brands product managers want a piece of the action so they launch a range of new products and get a load made
    3- Big brands flood the front of their Eurobike stand with these "cool must have products"
    4- Big brands spend a fortune on marketing them, and cant back down as they are upto their eyeballs in invoices and stock on the water.
    5- The media start making up gibberish about how "lifechanging" they are
    6- Bikeshops tell their supplier salesman to get stuffed over stocking this years wonder machine after getting shafted with fatbikes and all the other niches which never came to anything.
    7- Bikeforums go wild with the nichemongers creaming themselves over their niche purchase being "lifechanging" to justify dropping on a weird bike which is not quite as good as a normal bike. The 3 people who bought them keep repeating like a stuck record so it sounds like lots of people have them..
    8- 99.87% of people carry on buying normal bikes
    9- The shops who are suckered into buying them bin them out at a loss to get rid
    10- Bike companies find out nobody bought the things and bin them off to make space for the next "EPIC PRODUCT"
    11- 99.88% of people carry on buying normal stuff
    12- Nichemongers windge about how you cant get spares for their weirdass heap o junk
    13- Return to point 1

    My feelings on 27+:
    - i had conversations with rim manufacturers in taiwan where they basically were pissed off at spending a fortune on tooling for all these "must have" new rims, and nobody bought them and the ones who did massively cut their orders at the last minute!
    - you get a slightly bigger tyre which makes naff all difference
    - your rims and tyres now have their own gravity field
    - your bike now rides like a slow bag o crap
    - you get a warm glow that everyone envies your ego chariot of the latest nicheness
    - you realise your wrong in so many ways
    - you fit normal wheels and all is good again

    To all the people who like 27+, at least it will get you fit dragging around all that junk.

    ------------------------------------

    You may not have noticed this was tongue in cheek.... you may even be falling into point 7 a bit.

    Yes your correct that we don't set the agenda of the bike business but that wasn't my point. My point was that these big companies and their marketing machine are "telling you what to think" even when in the background of the industry they cant even give away these "hot" products. They have to keep reinforcing that they are great to get rid of them, they cant back down even if the new product is a complete dead dog.

    These hype products get 99% of the media yet sell 0.1% of the market turnover.

    I have not defined normal bikes, by that i mean everything else that isn't hype and people actually buy! be it 29/650 or dare i say it 26" (which we sell loads of even though its apparently so dead according to the so called "industry hype experts")


    All opinions listened to and valued, i just cant cope with spouting hype like the majority of brands are built on.

    -----------------------------

    I realise that our brand doesnt fit the image you have for yourself (hence as you say scathing replys to anything we post), but thats your personal preference. We come up against that all the time, but thats because your not our customer base and there nothing wrong with that either. not having a dig just simpily your not our slice of the pie becasue of your personal "value" choices on the fashion of our brand.

    ive lost count of the conversations ive had where somebody says dont by X but buy Y, when it turns out to be the exact same thing but at twice the price. the difference brand allignment and hype. but if it makes you happy then go elsewhere and get what you want im not going to stop you. some people wear a t-shirt, some people pay 10 times the price for the same thing with a logo on as it makes them feel good. We sold a stem once for 13 which another brand sold for 50, difference was the sticker - hype or quality, its the same bloody thing!

    The reason we sell lots of 26" is simple - theres loads of them out there! its got nothing to do with being a low end (apparantly) brand. Im not alienating potential 27+ customer, im just not interested in investing tends of thousands of pounds selling that product as the market is many times smaller than the hype makes out, infact almost non-existant.

    This kinda supports my opinion that people have been blinded by the market hype...

    Bearing in mind im basing this on over a decade of experience and we know from previous comments you have made on pinkbike that you have presumed alot of things (like that obviously our huge UK made range is all made in taiwan...). We can use that to validate whos opinion might be closer to the truth.

    Lets hug and make up, i like a good discussion but lets keep things based on facts not presumptions.
    Last edited by Damian Sanders; 07-21-2017 at 09:58 AM.

  2. #577
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    6,062
    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    TGR just loves knowing what Pinkbike thinks of MTBR's thoughts. Serious quality right there. Where do you post links to this thread?
    I post links to mtbr and pinkbike, to track user opinions over time, in one place.

    I don't have to post links to this thread elsewhere, because this:

    https://www.google.com/search?num=10...79.6LY3Mlbd2Nc

  3. #578
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    6,062
    These bikes would be soooo much better with 29" wheels....

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/reclin...ying-back.html

  4. #579
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Bolivar/Davis, WV
    Posts
    11,443
    Wagon wheels are dead.
    Do not count the days

    Make the days count.

  5. #580
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    in the trench
    Posts
    4,272


    6fittyBob be a good name for a kid

  6. #581
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    1,923
    Now that I've had the 2.8's for a couple weeks I can make an honest ass-essment.

    The terrain we primarily ride is relatively slow techy stuff. Punchy ups and downs on granite boulders with a combo of roots that are often soggy. The 2.8's are exactly what I expected them to be for that terrain. They made it easier to stall or make it up stuff if you were going too slow or in the wrong gear, which is nice. Junky sections of loose rocks they roll over with ease as well. Although, I did notice rolling resistance over the course of a longer ride, so that benefit is a better workout?

    The one local spot that is relatively fast without any techy terrain is SHP. For that area these tires do nothing for me. They are actually much worse imo. I mentioned previously that it gave me the '73 monte carlo sway effect even with more air. Speaking of air, I've settled to 17-18lbs. If it is really wet I might even drop a lb or two.

    Overall I'm glad I have both sets of wheelsets for my HT. It's super quick to change up the wheelsets and run either depending on the day. It will be interesting to try the 2.8's when we get a little snow also. I think they'll be pretty good in < 2" dustings.

    In the end I think this category is a very niche market. Maybe for several EC places and I don't know about western states as I've only ridden a couple spots recently and neither one of those places would this be any good imo. I suppose it's a great wheel for beginners as well...although heavier.

    I'm happy with my purchase and it was part of the plan when I bought the HT anyway.

  7. #582
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    6,062
    I'm a bit disappointed maxxis came out with a 26x2.8" DHF/DHR2, when a 26x2.6 or modern casing sizing 26x2.5 would be plenty big. I've got a 26x2.5 shorty that is huge.

  8. #583
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Western MT
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by Damian Sanders View Post
    I'm a bit disappointed maxxis came out with a 26x2.8" DHF/DHR2, when a 26x2.6 or modern casing sizing 26x2.5 would be plenty big. I've got a 26x2.5 shorty that is huge.
    Good thing you have at least one thing that is huge. Interesting that it is "really" a shorty.

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