27.5+.....has the industry gone full moron?

[stuckathuntermtn]

Just here to comment: yesterday was a Pivot demo day. I rode the Switchblade in 27.5+ . They didn't have 29 wheels for it; which seems kinda dumb, but: it was amazing!!!

So squishy...so grippy. I had never ridden a + bike (or a 27.5 for that matter), but I was VERY impressed with the Switchblade. I liked it more than the 429trail.

Maybe the fatter tires helped make up for their mediocre geo and outrageous price?

[El Chupacabra]

Last ride was 23/27 psi, on 29mm internal Flow MK3.

Was that cold PSI, taken before riding, out of direct sunlight, confirmed with at least two different NIST-certified gauges?

If not, take your anecdotal comments elsewhere.

[Damian Sanders]

Was that cold PSI, taken before riding, out of direct sunlight, confirmed with at least two different NIST-certified gauges?

If not, take your anecdotal comments elsewhere.

It's on the new digital gauge built into an inflator hooked to my small compressor. It reads basically the same (.5 psi increments) as my new Schwable digital gauge (.1 psi increments), which is generally considered highly accurate. At room temperature, on an approximately 70F day. The inflator is fantastic for setting pressure accurately and quickly on each ride. Here's what I'm using, if you look at the pics in the reviews, you can see how to modify it with a Lezyne chuck, which I copied, though I had to ream out the hose a bit:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XRWWPB6

This new setup reads lower than my old silica floor pump, by about 3 psi, where all my old quoted psi figures come from. So my old figures of 26/30 psi were the same actual pressure in the tire as I'm currently running, however, I've gone to a 4mm wider rim which some would say results in a effectively harder tire due to the larger volume.

[smartyiak]

Maybe the fatter tires helped make up for their mediocre geo and outrageous price?

Anything's possible.

But why you say the Geo is mediocre? Seems in line with all the other long/low bikes.

The price? Can't argue there!

[jono]

<Some sweet psi data gold snipped>

I've gone to a 4mm wider rim which some would say results in a effectively harder tire due to the larger volume.

Who are these "some?" Do they also take out tokens from their shocks to stiffen them up?

[stuckathuntermtn]

Anything's possible.

But why you say the Geo is mediocre? Seems in line with all the other long/low bikes.

The price? Can't argue there!

It doesn't seem particularly low, and the only thing exceptionally long seems to the the chainstay length.

[Damian Sanders]

Who are these "some?" Do they also take out tokens from their shocks to stiffen them up?

The same pressure in a larger volume tire results in an effectively harder tire. Try running 30psi in a fat bike and get back to me.

[Damian Sanders]

PLUS is GONE!

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/scott-...irst-ride.html

Scott were one of the first brands to push Plus sized tires two years ago, launching a wide range of bikes with the mid-fat offenders. The 'Plus' word has gone, along with a heavy desperation from all Scott staff to not even say it out loud. The new concept is one frame and fork size, and the choice of 29" with 2.5-2.6"-ish tires or 27.5" rims and 2.6-3.0"-ish rubber–it's not 'Plus' anymore, it's just 27.5". Most models will have the option of either size at your local dealer. A simple flip chip on the linkage can be used to maintain a similar ride height in either wheelsize, but doing so also adjusts the head angle by 0.6º degrees, giving a steeper head angle for the smaller wheel.

[jackstraw]

So is parabolic

[Vt-Freeheel]

" it's just 27.5"

[toast2266]

It doesn't seem particularly low, and the only thing exceptionally long seems to the the chainstay length.

Are you talking about the switchblade? That thing has 428mm stays - that's shorter than 99% of the 29ers (and 27.5's) on the market. Too short, in my opinion.

And the bb height is pretty average for a bike with that amount of travel.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[stuckathuntermtn]

No, I meant the 429 Trail and it's long chainstays and 19" seat tube (in a large) and it's average reach.
Doesn't BB height on a full suspension change when you sit on it? (Can't a lot change depending on the bike?)

[SB]

All the ex pro old guard bikers are going over to 27.5+ these days in my neck of the woods.

[grinch]

All the ex pro old guard bikers are going over to 27.5+ these days in my neck of the woods.

Probably fun as in the steep and wet. Winter on the north shore that'd be a good option I bet.Wonder how their tires are holding up? Liners or not?

[Damian Sanders]

OH THE HUMANITY!!!!!!!

http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-pl...a-1048653.html

[creaky fossil]

Maybe the fatter tires helped make up for their mediocre geo and outrageous price?

you'd have to ride your bike to be able to assess good/bad geometry
you'd also have to know what geometries play out as, when implemented
and you'd have to understand mechanics as well as chassis dynamics

so you fail on all 3
strike 3
you're out
back to the dugout, loser

remind me, Alex: when did you amass all the genius you pretend to possess? and how did you gather it and incorporate it into a 75 IQ brain?

[creaky fossil]

All the ex pro old guard bikers are going over to 27.5+ these days in my neck of the woods.

you, the online hero meatspace zero, talking about knowing the real Honches of the mid-Atlantic

nice fantasy, bro

TGR is more weaksauce, insubstantial Poseur Bullshit than MTBR these days

I blame kidwoo

[TahoeJ]

Creaky, I have yet to see evidence that you don't suck ass too... so put up or shut up. I realize you're too good for Strava but do it for one ride and share the results here since you're so fucking amazing.

[smartyiak]

No, I meant the 429 Trail and it's long chainstays and 19" seat tube (in a large) and it's average reach.
Doesn't BB height on a full suspension change when you sit on it? (Can't a lot change depending on the bike?)

That's true and could be why I liked the SB so much more, but the 429T didn't have "+" tires. But as far as the SB ego, unless I'm reading the charts wrong, it's comparable to Evil, SC, Yeti, Niner, and all the other new offerings of 29/27.5+ bikes.

[Damian Sanders]

Pinkbike thinks 27+ sucks....

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/1-ques...-with-275.html

MTBR discusses Pinkbike thinking 27.5+ sucks, faces an existential crisis...

http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-pl...e-1050735.html

Meanwhile, bike sales are in absolute freefall...coincidence?

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/studi...-first-quarter

Prepare for the push back to 26" to start any day now.

[jono]

Pinkbike thinks 27+ sucks, MTBR discusses Pinkbike thinking 27.5+ sucks.

TGR just loves knowing what Pinkbike thinks of MTBR's thoughts. Serious quality right there. Where do you post links to this thread?

[Damian Sanders]

The bike industry has aids-cancer.....

So from a different industry angle (Superstar Components), ie the aftermarket wheel retailer, we have had pretty much no interest in 27+ wheels.

It was a classic bike industry "whats next years big thing", which works as follows (feel free to drop in any niche):

1- Niche brand wants something new and niche to make them stand out from the gazillion other people selling the same stuff to the same people. they sell tiny numbers
2- Big brands product managers want a piece of the action so they launch a range of new products and get a load made
3- Big brands flood the front of their Eurobike stand with these "cool must have products"
4- Big brands spend a fortune on marketing them, and cant back down as they are upto their eyeballs in invoices and stock on the water.
5- The media start making up gibberish about how "lifechanging" they are
6- Bikeshops tell their supplier salesman to get stuffed over stocking this years wonder machine after getting shafted with fatbikes and all the other niches which never came to anything.
7- Bikeforums go wild with the nichemongers creaming themselves over their niche purchase being "lifechanging" to justify dropping ££££ on a weird bike which is not quite as good as a normal bike. The 3 people who bought them keep repeating like a stuck record so it sounds like lots of people have them..
8- 99.87% of people carry on buying normal bikes
9- The shops who are suckered into buying them bin them out at a loss to get rid
10- Bike companies find out nobody bought the things and bin them off to make space for the next "EPIC PRODUCT"
11- 99.88% of people carry on buying normal stuff
12- Nichemongers windge about how you cant get spares for their weirdass heap o junk
13- Return to point 1

My feelings on 27+:
- i had conversations with rim manufacturers in taiwan where they basically were pissed off at spending a fortune on tooling for all these "must have" new rims, and nobody bought them and the ones who did massively cut their orders at the last minute!
- you get a slightly bigger tyre which makes naff all difference
- your rims and tyres now have their own gravity field
- your bike now rides like a slow bag o crap
- you get a warm glow that everyone envies your ego chariot of the latest nicheness
- you realise your wrong in so many ways
- you fit normal wheels and all is good again

To all the people who like 27+, at least it will get you fit dragging around all that junk.

------------------------------------

You may not have noticed this was tongue in cheek.... you may even be falling into point 7 a bit.

Yes your correct that we don't set the agenda of the bike business but that wasn't my point. My point was that these big companies and their marketing machine are "telling you what to think" even when in the background of the industry they cant even give away these "hot" products. They have to keep reinforcing that they are great to get rid of them, they cant back down even if the new product is a complete dead dog.

These hype products get 99% of the media yet sell 0.1% of the market turnover.

I have not defined normal bikes, by that i mean everything else that isn't hype and people actually buy! be it 29/650 or dare i say it 26" (which we sell loads of even though its apparently so dead according to the so called "industry hype experts")

All opinions listened to and valued, i just cant cope with spouting hype like the majority of brands are built on.

-----------------------------

I realise that our brand doesnt fit the image you have for yourself (hence as you say scathing replys to anything we post), but thats your personal preference. We come up against that all the time, but thats because your not our customer base and there nothing wrong with that either. not having a dig just simpily your not our slice of the pie becasue of your personal "value" choices on the fashion of our brand.

ive lost count of the conversations ive had where somebody says dont by X but buy Y, when it turns out to be the exact same thing but at twice the price. the difference brand allignment and hype. but if it makes you happy then go elsewhere and get what you want im not going to stop you. some people wear a t-shirt, some people pay 10 times the price for the same thing with a logo on as it makes them feel good. We sold a stem once for £13 which another brand sold for £50, difference was the sticker - hype or quality, its the same bloody thing!

The reason we sell lots of 26" is simple - theres loads of them out there! its got nothing to do with being a low end (apparantly) brand. Im not alienating potential 27+ customer, im just not interested in investing tends of thousands of pounds selling that product as the market is many times smaller than the hype makes out, infact almost non-existant.

This kinda supports my opinion that people have been blinded by the market hype...

Bearing in mind im basing this on over a decade of experience and we know from previous comments you have made on pinkbike that you have presumed alot of things (like that obviously our huge UK made range is all made in taiwan...). We can use that to validate whos opinion might be closer to the truth.

Lets hug and make up, i like a good discussion but lets keep things based on facts not presumptions.

[Damian Sanders]

TGR just loves knowing what Pinkbike thinks of MTBR's thoughts. Serious quality right there. Where do you post links to this thread?

I post links to mtbr and pinkbike, to track user opinions over time, in one place.

I don't have to post links to this thread elsewhere, because this:

https://www.google.com/search?num=10...79.6LY3Mlbd2Nc

[Damian Sanders]

These bikes would be soooo much better with 29" wheels....

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/reclin...ying-back.html

[SB]

Wagon wheels are dead.