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  1. #851
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    Ok, this global warming shit is getting out of hand...

    Wow, Ron is back to denier tactic number one. Use made up data to say the climate isn't warming.

    Wasn't he just telling us that doing something about climate change was too expensive? Which is it, not happening or too expensive to deal with?

  2. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    Wow, Ron is back to denier tactic number one. Use made up data to say the climate isn't warming.

    Wasn't he just telling us that doing something about climate change was too expensive? Which is it, not happening or too expensive to deal with?
    I've never said it isn't warming.

    When it comes to our current climate, my position is there is nothing unprecedented about it. Which is what the data tells us.

  3. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    Oh FFS, this is again suppose to be a discussion about climate change and not about Al Gore or Barak Obama and their lifestyle choices.

    Put a fucking sock in it and FFS please stop quoting Ron as well.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron johnson View Post
    I've never said it isn't warming.

    When it comes to our current climate, my position is there is nothing unprecedented about it. Which is what the data tells us.
    This a combination of points 1 and 2. Use false data to say it isn't happening but also say the climate is always changing. I'll give you full credit for it even though it combines two points in one.

  5. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by mud View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Literally laughed out loud.

  6. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron johnson View Post
    I've never said it isn't warming.

    When it comes to our current climate, my position is there is nothing unprecedented about it. Which is what the data tells us.
    oreilly? Please tell us the last time that human activity caused the global climate average temps to raise so fast in such a short period of time. i.e. 1.5 degrees f in less than 150 years.. We've seen it rise .23 degrees per decade the past 50 years so most of it was really within the past 50 years. And, YES we are causing most of it. When did this happen before? I'll wait..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  7. #857
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    Massive fires in the Arctic & Siberia & Amazon. Spewing massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere. Feels so helpless these days. We are fucked.

  8. #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    oreilly? Please tell us the last time that human activity caused the global climate average temps to raise so fast in such a short period of time. i.e. 1.5 degrees f in less than 150 years.. We've seen it rise .23 degrees per decade the past 50 years so most of it was really within the past 50 years. And, YES we are causing most of it. When did this happen before? I'll wait..
    Good point...the ice age that ended 20k years ago must have happened magically. To look at even the past 500 years as a point of determining human impact on a planet that has sustained life for 3.5 billion years is laughable. The climate has always changed and always will.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  9. #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    This a combination of points 1 and 2. Use false data to say it isn't happening but also say the climate is always changing. I'll give you full credit for it even though it combines two points in one.
    False data coming from ice cores.... I guess since we get past CO2 levels from ice cores that data must be false too....

  10. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    oreilly? Please tell us the last time that human activity caused the global climate average temps to raise so fast in such a short period of time. i.e. 1.5 degrees f in less than 150 years.. We've seen it rise .23 degrees per decade the past 50 years so most of it was really within the past 50 years. And, YES we are causing most of it. When did this happen before? I'll wait..
    There is nothing I or anyone else could ever post to change you or WMD's mind. AGW is the 21st century religion. You can't argue with blind faith.

    Only about half of that warming can be attributed to CO2. Half a degree celsius of warming in 70 years, hardly unusual.

  11. #861
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    Renewables are clearly a bad idea, need fossil fuel backups and are too expensive.

    "Scotland generating enough wind energy to power two Scotlands
    ‘Amazing figures’ highlight consistency of wind energy in Scotland, say campaigners"

    Wind turbines in Scotland generated almost twice the entire country’s domestic power requirements In the first six months of the year.

    Enough energy was created by the country’s renewables to power homes from all the way up in Harris in the Outer Hebrides down to Harrogate in Yorkshire, World Wildlife Fund (WWF) Scotland said.

    The figures, from Weather Energy, show between January and June wind turbines provided enough electricity to power the equivalent of 4.47million homes for those six months.

    That is nearly twice the number of homes in Scotland. . .

    Alex Wilcox Brooke, weather energy project manager at Severn Wye Energy Agency said: “These figures really highlight the consistency of wind energy in Scotland and why it now plays a major part in the UK energy market.”

    The figures released come hot on the heels of the UK enjoying the longest ever period without coal power.

    Last year Scottish Power became the first major UK energy firm to completely drop fossil fuels in favour of wind power, after selling off its remaining gas and hydro stations to Drax for £702m.

    The company said it planned to invest £5.2bn over four years to more than double its renewable capacity.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...-a9013066.html

  12. #862
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    Ron Johnson is lying. He is now on climate denier Point 1 - the climate isn't changing, Point 2 the climate has always changed, and Point 3 - the climate is changing but humans didn't cause it.

    Unfortunately for him he is up against all of the world's top scientists and policy makers, and all he can do is lie and post alternative "facts."

    Key statistics of the Special Report on Global Warming of 1.5°C

    91 authors from 44 citizenships and 40 countries of residence
    – 14 Coordinating Lead Authors (CLAs)
    – 60 Lead authors (LAs)
    – 17 Review Editors (REs)

    133 Contributing authors (CAs)
    Over 6,000 cited references
    A total of 42,001 expert and government review comments
    (First Order Draft 12,895; Second Order Draft 25,476; Final Government Draft: 3,630)


    The IPCC assesses the thousands of scientific papers published each year to tell policymakers what we know and don’t know about the risks related to climate change. The IPCC identifies where there is agreement in the scientific community, where there are differences of opinion, and where further research is needed. It does not conduct its own research.

    To produce its reports, the IPCC mobilizes hundreds of scientists. These scientists and officials are drawn from diverse backgrounds. Only a dozen permanent staff work in the IPCC’s Secretariat.
    https://www.ipcc.ch/2018/10/08/summa...y-governments/

  13. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtown View Post
    Good point...the ice age that ended 20k years ago must have happened magically. To look at even the past 500 years as a point of determining human impact on a planet that has sustained life for 3.5 billion years is laughable. The climate has always changed and always will.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I shouldn't have to repeat this but--yes the planet can deal with global warming as it as in the past. But the human race and most of the species currently on the earth can't. It's happening too fast for us and other species to adapt without tremendous misery--pestilence, war, famine, and death. So if you're cool with that then let[s keep burning carbon.

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    (A little comic relief.)
    Last edited by old goat; 08-24-2019 at 10:10 AM.

  14. #864
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    Ron, do you work for Americans for Prosperity? Your patron saint, the lead climate denier, just died.

    "David Koch Was the Ultimate Climate Change Denier
    How a playboy billionaire built a political army to defend his fossil fuel empire."

    David Koch, who died Friday at the age of 79, is best known as a major funder of right-wing political causes, from tax cuts to deregulation, an enthusiastic patron of the arts and a man-about-town. But to his critics, his most lasting political legacy might very well be the rapidly warming world that he has left behind.

    Koch Industries realized early on that it would be a financial disaster for the firm if the American government regulated carbon emissions or made companies pay a price for releasing carbon into the atmosphere. The effects of such a policy would be measured over decades for Koch. The company has billions of dollars sunk into the complex and expensive infrastructure of crude-oil processing. If a limit on greenhouse gas emissions were imposed, it could dampen demand for oil and diminish the value of those assets and their future sales. The total dollar losses would likely be measured in trillions over a period of 30 years or more.

    In the face of this political problem, David Koch and his brother Charles built a political influence machine that is arguably unrivaled by any in corporate America. . .

    Finally, Koch controls a “boots on the ground” army in the form of Americans for Prosperity, a network of employees and volunteers who knock on doors, attend rallies to protest climate change legislation, and visit the offices of any lawmakers who seem likely to cross Koch Industries on the issue.


    This machine has been employed to great effect to ensure that no government action is taken to control greenhouse gas emissions. In the early 1990s, President George H.W. Bush made it clear that he would support a treaty to limit carbon emissions. The Republicans even had a market-based solution to tackle the problem, a system called “cap and trade” that put a price on pollution and allowed companies to buy and sell the right to pollute. Cap and trade had been used to great effect to reduce power plant pollution and acid rain. But in 1991, the Cato Institute, a Koch-funded think tank, held a seminar in Washington called “Global Environmental Crises: Science or Politics?” This was part of a decades-long effort to cast doubt about the reality of climate change.
    David Koch worked tirelessly, over decades, to jettison from office any moderate Republicans who proposed to regulate greenhouse gases. In 2009, for example, a South Carolina Republican, Representative Bob Inglis, proposed a carbon tax bill. Koch Industries stopped funding his campaign, donated heavily to a primary opponent named Trey Gowdy and helped organize teams of Tea Party activists who traveled to town hall meetings to protest against Mr. Inglis. Some of the town hall meetings devolved into angry affairs, where Mr. Inglis couldn’t make himself heard above the shouting. Mr. Inglis lost re-election, and his defeat sent a message to other Republicans: Koch’s orthodoxy on climate rules could not be violated.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/o...te-change.html

  15. #865
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    Ron Johnson is lying. He is now on climate denier Point 1 - the climate isn't changing, Point 2 the climate has always changed, and Point 3 - the climate is changing but humans didn't cause it.

    Unfortunately for him he is up against all of the world's top scientists and policy makers, and all he can do is lie and post alternative "facts."



    https://www.ipcc.ch/2018/10/08/summa...y-governments/
    What am I lying about again? Based on how you interpret my positions, you are refusing to pay attention to my arguments or you're just stupid. When I point out how much lying comes from the alarmists, you could care less. I guess as long as its your side doing the lying its no problem. "For the greater good" right?

    See post #846 for what your holy institution is really like.

  16. #866
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    To look at even the past 500 years as a point of determining human impact on a planet that has sustained life for 3.5 billion years is laughable. The climate has always changed and always will.
    Please point to a time in that past 3.5 million years in which there was such a large population of humans on this planet that were releasing this much Carbon into the system. Hell, show me me a time AD. that this has been the case.

    I will give you the benefit and wait for an answer before I put you on ignore.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  17. #867
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtown View Post
    Good point...the ice age that ended 20k years ago must have happened magically. To look at even the past 500 years as a point of determining human impact on a planet that has sustained life for 3.5 billion years is laughable. The climate has always changed and always will.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Again another catastrophic event which impacted global climate. That ice age was caused by the giant asteroid strike that covered the planet in dust and blocked out the sun killing off the dinosaurs in the process. Look how long it took for the earth to recover from that and the ice to recede. We're warming way faster now than we did then. Thank you for proving my point and also confirming this is, in fact unprecedented.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  18. #868
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    Literally laughed out loud.
    Yup, me too. Send Bernie cash for more implosions of the rich and notorious.
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

  19. #869
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron johnson View Post
    What am I lying about again?
    Anything that has to do with changing that costs money. Don't change our source of power, heat fuels, renewables are too expensive...Don't change policy of how Mega Corps can do business that will affect their bottom line...Gotta keep the oil companies and Mega Corps rolling in profits, so lower middle class fucks like you can keep sucking their dicks and voting R.

  20. #870
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2skier112 View Post
    so lower middle class fucks like you can keep sucking their dicks and voting R.
    That's the attitude that'll get people to change their mind!!

    Rhetoric like that will just cause people to dig in their heels more.

  21. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    That ice age was caused by the giant asteroid strike that covered the planet in dust and blocked out the sun killing off the dinosaurs in the process.
    You might want to check that...
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  22. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Again another catastrophic event which impacted global climate. That ice age was caused by the giant asteroid strike that covered the planet in dust and blocked out the sun killing off the dinosaurs in the process. Look how long it took for the earth to recover from that and the ice to recede. We're warming way faster now than we did then. Thank you for proving my point and also confirming this is, in fact unprecedented.
    SumJongGuy, really bringing the level of discussion in this thread to new heights. The dinosaurs went extinct 20k years ago

    You have demonstrated time and time again that you have no business posting in this thread, but that one is the capper.

  23. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2skier112 View Post
    Anything that has to do with changing that costs money. Don't change our source of power, heat fuels, renewables are too expensive...Don't change policy of how Mega Corps can do business that will affect their bottom line...Gotta keep the oil companies and Mega Corps rolling in profits, so lower middle class fucks like you can keep sucking their dicks and voting R.
    Definitely not lying about the costs of a 100% renewable non carbon energy system.

    I've never voted R.

  24. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron johnson View Post
    SumJongGuy, really bringing the level of discussion in this thread to new heights. The dinosaurs went extinct 20k years ago

    You have demonstrated time and time again that you have no business posting in this thread, but that one is the capper.
    Rolling your eyes at the back of your empty head?? All of these ice ages were caused by extreme events, including the one that killed the dinosaurs. What, 60 million years ago. The freezing is usually pretty quick, months.. the thawing takes MILLIONS of years... until now..

    The Pleistocene Epoch is typically defined as the time period that began about 2.6 million years ago and lasted until about 11,700 years ago. The most recent Ice Age occurred then, as glaciers covered huge parts of the planet Earth.
    https://www.livescience.com/40311-pl...ene-epoch.html
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  25. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiCougar View Post
    what about:

    6. CO2 is 0.04 percent of the atmosphere.
    7. human activity contributes 0.01% of the 0.04%

    I like those two, those are my favorites.
    8. Methane, Nitrous Oxide, CFC Fluorinated gases, HFCs.

    Methane has 28 times the global warming potential as CO2. Nitrous Oxides are 265 times CO2. CFCs are even worse with Sulfur Hexaflouride having 23,500 times the global warming potential as CO2. HFCs are referred to as “super greenhouse gases.”

    Despite being in very low concentrations, these gases are trapping heat in the Earth’s atmosphere. It's physics. We know that greenhouse gases are changing the atmosphere. These are physical facts.

    We are at present in the early stages of what will become a much larger CO2, CH4, N2O, CFC, HFC experiment.

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