Ok, this global warming shit is getting out of hand...

[stuckathuntermtn]

You are so fucking smug and woke. Excellent combination.

This is not a radical concept.
I'm probably a little left of a Torry.

[stuckathuntermtn]

And it reads like you all have your identity wrapped up in your vehicle. Thank you for proving my point.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I should emphasize again that this tax should not be paid be those who legit need a large vehicle for work.
Most people don't actually NEED a poorly handling, simply made, more dangerous for everyone else around you large vehicle for just driving around. And since no red blooded America would ever carpool or take mass transit or *gasp* walk, it's really quite a waist (waste?). Most people I see in large vehicles are by themselves in there too. Just an extra fuck you to everyone and everything. The ultimate Randian American expression of freedom. And as soon as the consequences of being a wasteful fuck are made clear? Well, especially the people who tell you that you have to take responsibility and face consequences, deny there's a problem or that there's anything anyone can do about it. Now that's fucking smug.

[rideit]

Someone should probably take a six month break from posting stupid shit.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Waaaaaaaah
25mpg is such a low standard too.
Your level of butthurt only continues to prove my point.

[rideit]

Haha, the fact that you interpreted that as butthurt is amusing.
Take a lap

[stuckathuntermtn]

And you're all seemingly unaware that the American auto industry is making pretty much the same mistakes it made that almost killed it.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I like to pretend to care about the environment, but has soon as someone suggests we should get less shitty gas mileage as a nation, that is just too much for me and my litter of children.

...

[rideit]

Wtf are you on about?
We should have 100 mpg by now.
You off your meds?

[SkiCougar]

Wtf are you on about?
We should have 100 mpg by now.
You off your meds?

um, that's not going to happen.

the ford f150 and toyota corolla are two models that have been made for around 25 years or more now, but even thru that much time of improvements in engine efficiency, material efficiency, model design and regulations; those models mpg has changed little because you can only increase efficiency of any vehicle so much.

now, world govts could mandate that every can driven is a prius or a prius truck and phase out everything else or make them illegal to be driven on public roads; but until you do that; 50 mpg or 100 mpg isn't going to happen.

(I left out any discussion of how the fuel efficient prius is powered by the supposed worst CO2 offender coal in most places but you want to move this thread to polyass; i'll go on)

[Skidog]

I should emphasize again that this tax should not be paid be those who legit need a large vehicle for work.
Most people don't actually NEED a poorly handling, simply made, more dangerous for everyone else around you large vehicle for just driving around. And since no red blooded America would ever carpool or take mass transit or *gasp* walk, it's really quite a waist (waste?). Most people I see in large vehicles are by themselves in there too. Just an extra fuck you to everyone and everything. The ultimate Randian American expression of freedom. And as soon as the consequences of being a wasteful fuck are made clear? Well, especially the people who tell you that you have to take responsibility and face consequences, deny there's a problem or that there's anything anyone can do about it. Now that's fucking smug.

so you walk or bike EVERYWHERE? What type of car do you have? Just wondering.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Old Subaru. It could get better gas mileage.
And yes, I live near downtown and frequently walk or bike, but that's also luck in geography. But also on purpose. I mean, I could have gotten some shitty apartment up in the South Hills, but I didn't.
I usually take my backpack to the grocery store, or at least get paper bags I can recycle with the rest of the cardboard. I also live right next to the grocery store lol.
When I get a new car, it will be something rated for at least 25mpg highway if only for the cost savings. Also, I like how smaller vehicles don't usually flip over if you get turned sideways on ice or swerve because of wild animals.
Pickups and SUV's probably would get 25mpg by now, but they were exempted from fleet mileage standards. I think pickups and large SUV's are also still cheaper to produce than cars.

[Skidog]

Old Subaru. It could get better gas mileage.
And yes, I live near downtown and frequently walk or bike, but that's also luck in geography. But also on purpose. I mean, I could have gotten some shitty apartment up in the South Hills, but I didn't.

Thats part of the problem IMHO. Not everyone lives in walk/bike friendly places, and those places that are friendly tend to be spendy too. double edged sword.

I have been considering a more commuter friendly car, but my commute is 20min. I get about 17mpg.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Thats part of the problem IMHO. Not everyone lives in walk/bike friendly places, and those places that are friendly tend to be spendy too. double edged sword.

I have been considering a more commuter friendly car, but my commute is 20min. I get about 17mpg.

Not living where it's walk or bike friendly is all the more reason to have a more fuel efficient vehicle.

[Core Shot]

Thats part of the problem IMHO. Not everyone lives in walk/bike friendly places, and those places that are friendly tend to be spendy too. double edged sword.

I have been considering a more commuter friendly car, but my commute is 20min. I get about 17mpg.

You could crush it with a VW TDI diesel
Had three over the years. 30ish around town and mid 40s hwy
But our leaders decided to kill diesel to force us all electric.
The Jetta was kinda small but I liked he Passat. Wish they had Passat wagon in USA

FYI the diesels are now being resold and a great buy. My dealer called me to buy back one of mine. Still had the company lettering after three years

[Skidog]

You could crush it with a VW TDI diesel
Had three over the years. 30ish around town and mid 40s hwy
But our leaders decided to kill diesel to force us all electric.
The Jetta was kinda small but I liked he Passat. Wish they had Passat wagon in USA

FYI the diesels are now being resold and a great buy. My dealer called me to buy back one of mine. Still had the company lettering after three years

New vehicle is in the works, but hard to stomach a car payment when currently both cars are functioning fine and have life left.

[Bunion 2020]

I drive a small PU for work. 17.5 to 22 mpg. I need the ability to haul some shit around to job sites.

You want to tax me? Go ahead, it will just get passed on to my clients, they can afford it. But what does that accomplish?

[WMD]

I drive a small PU for work. 17.5 to 22 mpg. I need the ability to haul some shit around to job sites.

You want to tax me? Go ahead, it will just get passed on to my clients, they can afford it. But what does that accomplish?

Bingo. This is what's wrong with a carbon tax. It works great if you are choosing which gas to buy because one is taxed and one isn't. It doesn't work as well when all gas is taxed and your truck only runs on gas.

The carbon tax would have to be pretty damn high to get you to make the capital investment in a new car that uses untaxed fuel.

Plus, there have to be alternatives. You can't buy an EV pickup yet, and definitely not in MT where it is hard to even get any EV. Most EV's are only sold in the states that have laws requiring them.

To get people into EV's we need to require manufacturers to make them, we need adequate charging infrastructure and we need to provide incentives to make them affordable even for people who don't want a new car now.

Prices are coming down and EV's should cost the same as ICE cars within 5 years, but we still need charging infrastructure and incentives to get people driving them.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Carbon taxes do seem a bit regressive the way they are applied.

I drive a small PU for work. 17.5 to 22 mpg. I need the ability to haul some shit around to job sites.

You want to tax me? Go ahead, it will just get passed on to my clients, they can afford it. But what does that accomplish?

I literally said at least twice that it shouldn't cover work vehicles.

[WMD]

A carbon tax can be a very effective piece of the solution, but it's not the total solution. It addresses some emissions better than others.

It also does not have to be regressive. At least one current bill before Congress would give rebates to every American so that most people would get back more than they paid. People with the biggest footprints - those who fly a lot and own multiple homes - would have to pay more than they get back.

[stuckathuntermtn]

It doesn't HAVE to be, no. But making people pay more for plane tickets kinda is. It's public transportation!
Not to mention that airlines and aircraft and aircraft engine manufacturers seem to have far more incentive towards fuel efficiency than auto manufacturers or buyers seem to.
And yes, I'm aware there are also a lot of noise and pollution laws, but are there any related to efficiency? They already measure everything in cost per seat mile and I'm pretty sure a major part of that cost is fuel.
Now, if you're flying private, different story.

[Bunion 2020]

I literally said at least twice that it shouldn't cover work vehicles.

Sorry, I don't follow most of your postings, my bad.

[lifelinksplit]

Sorry, I don't follow most of your postings, my bad.

Chuckle...

[stuckathuntermtn]

Sorry, I don't follow most of your postings, my bad.

Thanks for your underhanded apology, dude. Why even bother?
25mpg is trash to the rest of the first world, but you chose to take personally a not so crazy idea (much of the world's personal vehicles get way better mileage and are appalled that people in America insist on getting less) that you misinterpreted and then ridiculed me for when you realized there was more nuance then you first thought. A+

[Bunion 2020]

Brevity is not your forte? Nuance has nothing to do with anything. You tend to get hysterical.

OK I have some time to add on.

You want to exclude work vehicles from a carbon tax? OK.

Do you know that if I would have bought a full sized PU I could write off about 30K a year for up to 3 years? Instead I take the Mileage deduction at .55 per mile.

That is one of the main reasons you see construction folks driving big new PUs and why they turn them over about every 3 years. Sure for some its about the size of their dicks, for most it is about the taxes advantages our current system gives to those vehicles.

The more you know...