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  1. #801
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    Ok, this global warming shit is getting out of hand...

    I love this thread. It’s like watching Christians and Atheists argue over the existence of God. Everyone is dead set in their belief and no one changes their mind. Keep going.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  2. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkhound Odin View Post
    I love this thread. It’s like watching Christians and Atheists argue over the existence of God. Everyone is dead set in their belief and no one changes their mind. Keep going.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    so what do you believe--or do you just sit back and amuse yourself and not give a shit about the future? I think I'd rather deal with a Kochite like RJ than someone who considers themselves above it all.

  3. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron johnson View Post
    Congrats, you have overtaken WMD as the most out of touch true believer in this thread. Notice how the graph you are defending is a cartoon with no sourcing? Notice how it doesn't show any of the massive Younger Dryas spikes? Notice all the smaller spikes in the last 10,000 years (which aren't associated with asteroids or volcanoes)? Those swings are upwards of of 3 degrees celcius, none of which show up in your cartoon.
    We have these different proxies that give us information about past climate and ideally you don’t rely on just one. Instead you use a multi-proxy approach, multiple records to reconstruct the changes that have been going on. Things like tree rings, the composite oxygen isotope record, an aggregation of ocean core data, ice-core samples, etc.

    The key is global mean temperature, not regional variations. With global mean temperature regional spikes are smoothed out. A chart based on global mean temperature would, for obvious reasons, be smoother than a local proxy.

    Whereas you keep cherry-picking data that appears to support your oftentimes specious arguments.

  4. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    so what do you believe--or do you just sit back and amuse yourself and not give a shit about the future? I think I'd rather deal with a Kochite like RJ than someone who considers themselves above it all.
    I learned a long time ago there is no personal satisfaction getting involved in religious debates. I prefer being amused by those arguing. Please, continue.

  5. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    Imagine Bozeman, or your ski town, with 2degrees C or more of warming by mid century. Terrifying.

    https://www.hcn.org/articles/climate...future-bozeman
    Cool. Then maybe Bozeman real estate/rent prices will FINALLY get smacked back down to reality. Long overdue IMO. ^_^

  6. #806
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    Amazon's burning, Greenland and both poles melting.. South pole melting in the middle of winter down there. Must all be fake news from power hungry scientists...
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  7. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Amazon's burning, Greenland and both poles melting.. South pole melting in the middle of winter down there. Must all be fake news from power hungry scientists...
    Name:  kdE8vR5.jpg
Views: 174
Size:  32.9 KB
    Aim for the chopping block. If you aim for the wood, you will have nothing. Aim past the wood, aim through the wood.
    http://tim-kirchoff.pixels.com/

  8. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    We have these different proxies that give us information about past climate and ideally you don’t rely on just one. Instead you use a multi-proxy approach, multiple records to reconstruct the changes that have been going on. Things like tree rings, the composite oxygen isotope record, an aggregation of ocean core data, ice-core samples, etc.

    The key is global mean temperature, not regional variations. With global mean temperature regional spikes are smoothed out. A chart based on global mean temperature would, for obvious reasons, be smoother than a local proxy.

    Whereas you keep cherry-picking data that appears to support your oftentimes specious arguments.
    You think I don't know this? I am merely pointing out how fake that unsourced cartoon is. It makes it appear as if there are no sudden temperature swings except for the past 150 years for which we have instrumental records. I often use the Greenland ice core record because it is the highest resolution record we have for the past 20,000 years. Here's some more:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Selected-climate-proxies-showing-the-92-and-or-82-ka-events-Greenland-ice-core-NGRIP.png 
Views:	35 
Size:	412.8 KB 
ID:	292015
    From top to bottom: NGRIP d 18 O (Johnsen et al., 2001), precipitation and temperature calculated from percentage pollen from Tenaghi Philippon in Greece (Pross et al., 2009), percentage of deciduous tree pollen in the SL152 marine core from the Aegean Sea (Kotthoff et al., 2008), d 18 O and d 13 C from Soreq Cave in Israel (Bar-Matthews et al., 1999, 2003), and d 18 O from Qunf Cave in Oman (Fleitmann et al., 2003).

    Name:  epica.png
Views: 156
Size:  12.3 KB
    Two Antarctic ice cores, one Greenland

    Name:  Years-before-present-Younger-Dryas.jpg
Views: 158
Size:  69.8 KB
    GISP is Greenland, shown before. Cariaco is Venezuelan ocean basin. Dome C is Antarctica.

  9. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Amazon's burning
    Boy. Sure would be nice if somebody could do ANYTHING about getting those knuckleheads to quit clearing out the rainforests in record numbers down South, but nope! Seems we're more worried about plastic straws and cow farts than things that could make DRASTIC differences in our climate.

  10. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Amazon's burning, Greenland and both poles melting.. South pole melting in the middle of winter down there. Must all be fake news from power hungry scientists...
    You are a hopeless case so I respond to this for the sake of the others reading this thread.

    Amazon burning - not caused by global warming.

    Greenland melting - Yes, happens every summer. Current 2019 surface mass balance is at about the 30 year mean.

    South pole melting in the middle of winter - This is your best one yet. Temps are -50 to -60 this time of year with no sunlight.

  11. #811
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  12. #812
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    https://www.earthday.org/campaigns/r...limate-change/
    Quote Originally Posted by Earth Day Network
    Deforestation is the second leading cause of global warming and produces about 24% of global greenhouse gas emissions. Scientist say that deforestation in tropical rainforests adds more carbon dioxide to the atmosphere than the sum total of all the cars and trucks on the world’s roads. In some countries, such as Brazil and Indonesia, deforestation and forest degradation together are by far the main source of national greenhouse gas emissions.
    ...
    Combating deforestation has been identified as one of the most promising and cost-effective ways to lower emissions.
    Huh. Ya don't say?

    Also, this just out: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/e...deforestation/
    It's pretty messed up. Those guys make coal rolling rednecks look like environmentalist saints by comparison.

  13. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron johnson View Post
    You are a hopeless case so I respond to this for the sake of the others reading this thread.

    Amazon burning - not caused by global warming.

    Greenland melting - Yes, happens every summer. Current 2019 surface mass balance is at about the 30 year mean.

    South pole melting in the middle of winter - This is your best one yet. Temps are -50 to -60 this time of year with no sunlight.
    Name:  greenland ice melt.JPG
Views: 149
Size:  70.3 KB

    https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/sotc/ice_sheets.html

  14. #814
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  15. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinFromSA View Post
    Cool. Then maybe Bozeman real estate/rent prices will FINALLY get smacked back down to reality. Long overdue IMO. ^_^
    Bozeman real estate is way out of whack for sure, but I'm not ready for no more skiing, fishing or hiking.

  16. #816
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    Ok, this global warming shit is getting out of hand...

    Oops

  17. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron johnson View Post
    That's a sweet link, thanks.

  18. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron johnson View Post
    But the accumulated surface mass balance for the year is actually well under (more melt) the 81-10 mean and is actually approaching outlier territory.

  19. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    If you want to save the earth then you should probably be pro-global warming since the biggest threat to everything are the humans and some good ole warming should clear a lot of that up.

    This is my new Sig !
    What if "Alternative" energy wasn't so alternative ?

  20. #820
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    The only debate is what percent of global warming is anthropogenic. That figure is unknown. However it appears that it is a contributing -and perhaps the driving- factor. Only a fool would argue that we ignore something simply because we are uncertain as to exactly how bad it is. Which is why I have no interest in anything Exxon Ron has to say.


    Well that, and he's dead wrong on solar.

  21. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWFlow View Post
    But the accumulated surface mass balance for the year is actually well under (more melt) the 81-10 mean and is actually approaching outlier territory.
    I didn't see the graph in the tabs. That is the case. Low snow cover year + early melt seem to be the main contributors.

  22. #822
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    fuck you you corporate whore.

  23. #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    The only debate is what percent of global warming is anthropogenic. That figure is unknown. However it appears that it is a contributing -and perhaps the driving- factor. Only a fool would argue that we ignore something simply because we are uncertain as to exactly how bad it is. Which is why I have no interest in anything Exxon Ron has to say.

    Well that, and he's dead wrong on solar.

    If you believe that is the crux of my argument you are either not paying attention or just dumb. I don't believe I have ever argued that we do nothing simply because we don't know how bad it will be.

    What am I getting wrong on solar? My stance is that 100% non carbon renewables is unfeasible with our current tech. Given that we don't have a single solar plant with adequate backup to look at for an example proves my point.

  24. #824
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    Oh I'm definitely not paying attention. Fuck you, by the way.

    edit: admittedly I was paying attention for a few minutes there
    Last edited by iceman; 08-22-2019 at 06:03 PM.

  25. #825
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    Arguing the science of the climate crisis with Ron only furthers his agenda of spreading doubt. He is lying.

    99% of climate scientists agree dangerous climate change is occurring and it is Caused by humans.

    These scientists have told us we must keep global temperature rise to less than 2 degrees C, and to do this we must cut greenhouse gas emissions 45% by 2030 and to net zero by 2050.

    https://www.ipcc.ch/2018/10/08/summa...y-governments/

    Limiting global warming to 1.5°C would require rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society, the IPCC said in a new assessment. With clear benefits to people and natural ecosystems, limiting global warming to 1.5°C compared to 2°C could go hand in hand with ensuring a more sustainable and equitable society, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) said on Monday.

    The Special Report on Global Warming of 1.5°C was approved by the IPCC on Saturday in Incheon, Republic of Korea. It will be a key scientific input into the Katowice Climate Change Conference in Poland in December, when governments review the Paris Agreement to tackle climate change.

    “With more than 6,000 scientific references cited and the dedicated contribution of thousands of expert and government reviewers worldwide, this important report testifies to the breadth and policy relevance of the IPCC,” said Hoesung Lee, Chair of the IPCC.

    Ninety-one authors and review editors from 40 countries prepared the IPCC report in response to an invitation from the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) when it adopted the Paris Agreement in 2015.

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