Ok, this global warming shit is getting out of hand...

[schuss]

Also, those memes are terribly unfunny regardless of stance. Seriously?

[raisingarizona13]

A lot of us are driving cleaner cars, continually making our homes greener, recycling more., pushing industry for greener energy. Think I read somewhere that Jackson Hole is close to running 100% renewable. We don't have to give up everything to save the climate, only some pretty BIG things. Quit saying all or nothing. There will never be any such thing as all and you know it... That's your bullshit red herring speak..

And what keeps the Valley's tourism industry going through the winter? What sort of people go on ski vacations in Jackson or buy homes there? What would someones carbon footprint likely be if they buy one of those mansions on the west side and spend a few months there a year while bouncing around to their other properties? What would H. fords (a climate activist) footprint look like on paper? Would ski bums exist if it weren't for the wealthy folks spending money there?

And it will be all or nothing, that's my point. This civilization isn't any different then all of the others that eventually collapsed and we are speeding right towards that.

There's too many people right now to be sustainable, no matter how much we want to hang on to hope I'm struggling to find any.

[raisingarizona13]

Ok, you don't agree.

So how do we cut global emissions in half by 2030 and to net zero by 2050? What is your solution?

Global warming. It will rid this planet of it's human problem.

For the record, I'm not trying to put myself in a brighter light or sit on a taller pedestal, I'm guilty just like everyone else but I'll own it. I'm not going to quit driving or skiing either until I'm forced to. But that's what I'm saying, we are fucked.

[SumJongGuy]

Then stop buying plastic goods and driving cars.

Or do this while pressuring local governments to add incentives (or penalties) so everyone uses fewer plastics and greener cars.. Were you making fun of cities that banned plastic straws and single use grocery bags?

[MultiVerse]

Also, those memes are terribly unfunny regardless of stance. Seriously?

The memes are part of the overwhelming response to Bromontane's second twitter thread, that the "CO2-hoax" and climate change is all a conspiracy, with many of the talking points initiated by a constellation of Koch-funded, Breitbart-backed, and right-wing European lobbying groups.

[raisingarizona13]

Or do this while pressuring local governments to add incentives (or penalties) so everyone uses fewer plastics and greener cars.. Were you making fun of cities that banned plastic straws and single use grocery bags?

I suppose you are right. I guess. Or one could argue that I might make some change by pointing out peoples hypocrisy too.

And no, I didn't but I can see the BS in a lot of that too though. Such as how reusable grocery bags are made so cheaply they need to be replaced after only a few uses. It probably isn't sustainable for production (profitable) if they were made to last a long time.

[skiballs]

Global warming. It will rid this planet of it's human problem.

For the record, I'm not trying to put myself in a brighter light or sit on a taller pedestal, I'm guilty just like everyone else but I'll own it. I'm not going to quit driving or skiing either until I'm forced to. But that's what I'm saying, we are fucked.

Fucked how? Extinction? I doubt it. Even the most extreme man-made climate change won't do that. Space rocks, gamma rays and super volcanoes, now were talking real extinction. By the way, all those things will happen sooner or later.

[schuss]

The memes are part of the overwhelming response to Bromontane's second twitter thread, that the "CO2-hoax" and climate change is all a conspiracy, with many of the talking points initiated by a constellation of Koch-funded, Breitbart-backed, and right-wing European lobbying groups.

Twitter threads are almost all uniformly terrible. If it's truly a hoax, why are only companies that profit from CO2 calling it that? Why does the defense department consider it a threat and changed investments/plans as a result?

As I said before, if it all turns out to be a hoax, we made some meaningful improvements in energy independence, efficiency and general environmental quality (as air pollution is highly correlated with respiratory illness and death from respiratory illnesses). I'll gladly eat a hat or a shoe if that's the case.
Apparently dollars always Trump sense to some people. Too bad that money will do fuck all in a major climate emergency.
Also, conservatives seriously need to understand humor, it's just painful seeing the attempts.

[k2skier112]

Such as how reusable grocery bags are made so cheaply they need to be replaced after only a few uses.

Your buying the wrong bags. Even the cheapest freebie ones last at least 6-9 months for me, most are over a year and a half old and have dozens and dozens of uses. You're doing something wrong, especially by implying your false narratives to you conclusions.

[uglymoney]

I suppose you are right. I guess. Or one could argue that I might make some change by pointing out peoples hypocrisy too.

How? Seems to me the point of that strategy is almost entirely to shame people into silence. Does it cause subjects to change behaviors? IMO unlikely unless we can offer them less carbon intensive choices.

You've already said you aren't giving up the same luxuries you are critical of the spokespeople utilizing until you are forced to? Since you don't consider yourself an advocate for actions that would cause fundamental changes and you have decided to take no real drastic actions yourself it could be argued you are satisfied with the status quo which is train driving toward cliff.






Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[ron johnson]

Is anything she is saying wrong?

From the beginning of her speech:

"You have stolen my dreams and my childhood with your empty words. And yet I'm one of the lucky ones. People are suffering. People are dying. Entire ecosystems are collapsing. We are in the beginning of a mass extinction, and all you can talk about is money and fairy tales of eternal economic growth. How dare you!"

"For more than 30 years, the science has been crystal clear. How dare you continue to look away and come here saying that you're doing enough, when the politics and solutions needed are still nowhere in sight."

Bolded is not true. People are not suffering and dying from global warming. Ecosystems are not collapsing from global warming. Extinctions are not a result of global warming. The science isn't crystal clear now let alone 30 years ago.

[rideit]

I take it you don’t travel, because all of those things are happening. By degrees, sure...but the boiling frog analogy is apt here.

[The Tortoise]

People are not suffering and dying from global warming.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/europe...aths-1.5195960

Ecosystems are not collapsing from global warming. Extinctions are not a result of global warming.

http://theconversation.com/ecosystem...e-change-99367

The science isn't crystal clear now let alone 30 years ago.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/1990-...port_n_2270453

[ron johnson]

I take it you don’t travel, because all of those things are happening. By degrees, sure...but the boiling frog analogy is apt here.

All those things have always happened. Global warming has not accelerated any of them.

[basinbeater]

Ron, c'mon now. Even 16 year old autistic kids are smarter than you are. Pull your head out of your ass.
Up is still up and down is still down, even if you say it is not.

sent from Utah.

[MultiVerse]

What we know is bad: Greenhouse gases are rising. Temperatures are rising. The snowline is rising. Springs are arriving earlier. Ice sheets are melting. The sea level is rising. The patterns of rainfall and drought are changing. Heat waves are getting worse. Extreme rainfall events are increasing in intensity and frequency. The oceans are acidifying.

What we don't know is worse: There’s roughly a 1-in-10 probability of global average warming exceeding 6°C (11°F), a cataclysmal outcome.

[rideit]

All those things have always happened. Global warming has not accelerated any of them.

Ok, if you say so...without any proof.

[Mofro261]

Anyone else read the headline last week that the North American continent has lost 2.9 Billion birds since 1970, between 1/4-1/3 of all birds?

Decline of the North American avifauna. Science, 2019; eaaw1313 DOI:10.1126/science.aaw1313

A study published today in the journal Science reveals that since 1970, bird populations in the United States and Canada have declined by 29 percent, or almost 3 billion birds, signaling a widespread ecological crisis. The results show tremendous losses across diverse groups of birds and habitats -- from iconic songsters such as meadowlarks to long-distance migrants such as swallows and backyard birds including sparrows.


"Multiple, independent lines of evidence show a massive reduction in the abundance of birds," said Ken Rosenberg, the study's lead author and a senior scientist at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology and American Bird Conservancy. "We expected to see continuing declines of threatened species. But for the first time, the results also showed pervasive losses among common birds across all habitats, including backyard birds."
The study notes that birds are indicators of environmental health, signaling that natural systems across the U.S. and Canada are now being so severely impacted by human activities that they no longer support the same robust wildlife populations.
The findings showed that of nearly 3 billion birds lost, 90 percent belong to 12 bird families, including sparrows, warblers, finches, and swallows -- common, widespread species that play influential roles in food webs and ecosystem functioning, from seed dispersal to pest control.
Among the steep declines noted:
Grassland birds are especially hard hit, with a 53 percent reduction in population -- more than 720 million birds -- since 1970.
Shorebirds, most of which frequent sensitive coastal habitats, were already at dangerously low numbers and have lost more than one-third of their population.
The volume of spring migration, measured by radar in the night skies, has dropped by 14 percent in just the past decade.

[Deebased]

Greta Thunberg has a message so morally clear and honest that GOP and climate deniers can't say anything about it. So, of course, they go after the messenger, and when that doesn't go well they go after her parents.

Did you know Greta's parents were not strong environmentalists, and certainly not enviro activists? When Greta was younger she saw some classroom movies about climate change and she couldn't let it go. She didn't eat for 2 months, and she developed selective mutism where she only spoke when she felt she really had to. Her growth was stunted by her lack of nutrition and she was seriously depressed.

Her parents talked to her and she told them she was worried about the climate crisis. She convinced them to change - he mother stopped flying which meant she could no longer perform internationally.

When she decided to start striking from school, her parents didn't support her and said she would have to suffer the consequences. She did it anyway.

Her parents sound like pretty amazing parents to me - worried about their daughter, communicating with her, hearing her point of view, changing their lives to align with her beliefs. Supporting her, not shutting her down. I'd love to have those parents.




https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ings-go-i-cant

Any idea how we can get more people on this selective mutism thingy?

[dan_pdx]

All those things have always happened. Global warming has not accelerated any of them.

Wait, didn't you just say that none of those things were actually happening? And now they have always happened? Which is it?

[basinbeater]

Wait, didn't you just say that none of those things were actually happening? And now they have always happened? Which is it?

He just says whatever obfuscates the facts. He doesn't really have anything to say.

Straight from the oil company and tobacco playbook for how to deal with an overwhelming body of evidence.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...bacco-playbook

sent from Utah.

[PNWbrit]

Fwiw, regardless of how appropriate Greta's position is, I admire her & think she's helping the world by speaking up with force.

Fuck "appropriate".

It's just admirable plain and simple.

[WMD]

Any idea how we can get more people on this selective mutism thingy?

Yes. It's called ignore.

[SumJongGuy]

Anyone else read the headline last week that the North American continent has lost 2.9 Billion birds since 1970, between 1/4-1/3 of all birds?

Some get taken out by wind turbines...
It really looks to be inversely correlated with the increase in radio, cell phone, and data transmissions to me. I've heard similar conjecture that whales and dolphins beaching themselves might be related to the security sonar detection systems along our coastlines.

[WMD]

Global warming. It will rid this planet of it's human problem.

For the record, I'm not trying to put myself in a brighter light or sit on a taller pedestal, I'm guilty just like everyone else but I'll own it. I'm not going to quit driving or skiing either until I'm forced to. But that's what I'm saying, we are fucked.

So you are right, you aren't saying we are fucked so why try. You are saying we are fucked so let's just be fucked. Do I have it right this time? The problem with global warming is that is also leading to extinction of most other species. Do you want that too? Is the giant ball we live on the most important thing, or is it the things that live on that ball that matter to us? The ball will be fine. It is the living things that won't.

I take a different view. What if we start with the premise that there are thing we do that give us joy and give our lives meaning - like ski, fish, travel, have kids, etc. So instead of stopping doing those things, why don't we find ways to do those things so we can do them without killing off all life and creating climate chaos? I think we are smart enough to do this. . .