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09-16-2019, 07:05 PM #1526click here
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09-16-2019, 08:44 PM #1527I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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09-16-2019, 09:04 PM #1528Banned
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09-16-2019, 09:10 PM #1529Registered User
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That's a fabulous description of your posts to this thread. Maybe you should show yourselves the door so the rational members of the board can continue bitching and moaning about how climate change is fucking up our ski seasons -- oh yeah, and threatening human society globally.
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09-16-2019, 09:18 PM #1530Banned
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Sometimes? It pretty much always lags behind temperature in the historical records. You say there is plenty of evidence that CO2 drove temperature in the historical record. That is news to me. I would like to see more of the evidence you have.
That study has received a fair amount of criticism:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/...ence-by-proxy/
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/...y/#more-60932/
http://www.sciencebits.com/Shakun_in_Nature
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09-16-2019, 09:28 PM #1531Banned
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I guess the difference is that is coming from an organization that is supposed to have scientific integrity, and I'm just a jack off climate change denier sitting in mom's basement arguing with people on a ski message board.
Either way, you haven't demonstrated any understanding of climate science, so I don't think you would be able to decipher the validity of any of the scientific discussion in this thread anyway.
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09-16-2019, 09:30 PM #1532Banned
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09-16-2019, 09:32 PM #1533
Wattsupwiththat is a known Koch brothers paid denier site. Good reference.
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09-16-2019, 09:57 PM #1534
There's a big difference in dismissing an argument and making a personal attack.
Your arguments are inconsistent, citing bogus websites, denying leveraging those websites, insulting authors and posters, making wild claims and ignoring established statistical methods.
So I'm just not convinced.
About the only positive thing I can think of is that theories are supposed to be somewhat indeterminate, Heisenberg, quantum theory, error analysis and all that. To that extent we should be suspicious and critical of theories and "facts". But that's a very different thing than putting the conclusion ahead of the data and insulting those who disagree.
So, I'm out, not that it matters.Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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09-16-2019, 10:00 PM #1535
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09-16-2019, 10:44 PM #1536Registered User
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09-16-2019, 10:45 PM #1537
- Before getting into the weeds, are you arguing greenhouse gases do not act to amplify warming associated with very long timescale variations in the Earth's orbital configuration?
- Are you arguing CO2 and other greenhouse gasses in the industrial era are not driving modern warming?
If you answer CO2 does amplify to the first question, which is the consensus opinion BTW, then CO2 both lags and leads. Because of orbital changes (the planet wobbles) either the Southern Hemisphere (or the Northern Hemisphere) slowly warms up whereas in the opposite hemisphere (which is still cold, obviously) CO2 leads the warming.
This is not controversial.
But, if you deny CO2 causes any warming then we are back to where we started with you (and wattsupwiththat) saying everything you and they don't agree with is a conspiracy.
In any case, you really are having a hard time with this whole spatial-variability thing aren't you? You're not alone either, wattsupwiththat also completely misses the point of spatial-variability with their criticism too, and inadvertently reinforces the paper's findings. Although I doubt they (and you) realize it.
You've done a lot of that too in this thread so thanks for all the help with the research.
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09-16-2019, 10:48 PM #1538Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident
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09-17-2019, 07:37 AM #1539
To those who say we can't afford to do anything about climate change, the Government Accountability Office has set the cost of the Wall Street bailout in 2008 at $16 trillion. Bernie's climate plan, the most expensive plan offered so far, costs ... wait for it ... $16 trillion.
Seems the world didn't end when we spent that to bail out the banks. It probably won't end if we spend it to continue human life on the planet either.
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09-17-2019, 11:07 AM #1540Banned
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No.
- Are you arguing CO2 and other greenhouse gasses in the industrial era are not driving modern warming?
If you answer CO2 does amplify to the first question, which is the consensus opinion BTW, then CO2 both lags and leads. Because of orbital changes (the planet wobbles) either the Southern Hemisphere (or the Northern Hemisphere) slowly warms up whereas in the opposite hemisphere (which is still cold, obviously) CO2 leads the warming.
This is not controversial.
But, if you deny CO2 causes any warming then we are back to where we started with you (and wattsupwiththat) saying everything you and they don't agree with is a conspiracy.
In any case, you really are having a hard time with this whole spatial-variability thing aren't you? You're not alone either, wattsupwiththat also completely misses the point of spatial-variability with their criticism too, and inadvertently reinforces the paper's findings. Although I doubt they (and you) realize it.
You've done a lot of that too in this thread so thanks for all the help with the research.
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09-17-2019, 11:37 AM #1541
There are various plans, but a chunk of Bernie's costs are to help share technology with the developing world. Elizabeth Warren wants to create a a $1.5 trillion “Green Industrial Mobilization” of American-made renewable energy products and a $100 billion “Green Marshall Plan” to help developing nations get American renewable products.
The point isn't the dollar figures. The point is we must help the world get to net zero emissions by 2050 and there are ways to do that.
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09-17-2019, 11:41 AM #1542Banned
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That is not a personal attack. So far dan_pdx's contribution to the thread has been to post an alarmist cartoon graph as proof of AGW, and to rely on midwest farmers and western skiers as proof of the effects of AGW. The only person to demonstrate any scientific understanding of climate change in this thread has been been MV, yet that hasn't stopped everyone else from chiming in on a subject they clearly know little about.
It's also hilarious you keep accusing me of personal attacks. Have you not noticed its about about 100 to 1 on the personal attacks in the opposite direction?
My main arguments in this thread have been that:
1) Current non carbon renewable tech is lacking and the only way to get the world to stop burning carbon is to get the tech to a point where it makes economic sense for the world to adopt.
2) There is no consensus on how much warming humans are responsible for or how dangerous it is.
3) There is no evidence of extreme weather events getting worse from global warming.
4) You are lied to constantly about the subject of AGW from the media.
5) There is nothing unusual about the climate of today in the context of the past 2,000 years.
I have not needed any bogus websites, inconsistent arguments, wild claims, or ignoring established statistical methods for points 1-4 and they are 100% true. Point 5 is where I have gotten into the weeds with MV, with MV claiming that the globally synchronous warming is unusual. I remain unconvinced by his position, but won't begrudge him for it.
Before you leave I'd like if you could give some examples of me "citing anomalies as proof that trends don't exist but only when it supports your claims," because I'm pretty sure you made that up.
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09-17-2019, 11:44 AM #1543Banned
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09-17-2019, 01:46 PM #1544Registered User
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09-17-2019, 02:29 PM #1545
https://nationalpost.com/pmn/environ...enta-study/amp
Potentially harmful carbon pollution created by the combustion of fossil fuels reaches fetal side of placenta
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09-17-2019, 02:48 PM #1546
Relevant quote
“Science offers something close to certainty on many fronts, but on doom, it is ambiguous."Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident
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09-17-2019, 05:49 PM #1547Banned
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09-20-2019, 05:06 AM #1548
well, well, well....only found in finnish at the moment. i wonder why?
Climate guru Petteri Taalas: Climate change is not yet out of control, but the debate is - "It has the features of a religious extremism"
https://www.talouselama.fi/uutiset/i...d-b027a403e106
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09-20-2019, 07:33 AM #1549
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09-20-2019, 09:40 AM #1550
Both my sons and many more Baltimore youth are marching to City Hall today. So proud of them.
Those that still deny global warming/climate change can go fuck themselves. The world passes you by...They think I do not know a buttload of crap about the Gospel, but I do.
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