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  1. #351
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    Let's train bears to hunt evangelicals.

  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    Well we've targeted one of the enemies. Let's exterminate.

    Small pox on the pews of a few Texas mega churches? Blackmail Joel Osteen to preach that everyone should drive a Nissan Leaf?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    It also reeks of the idol worship anyone who truly follows scripture should be avoiding. Jesus didn't want to be worshiped as God, that's why he took the form of man to preach. Idol worship of religious figures, the military and law enforcement authority, and cough cough the flag are all things scripture alludes to as dangerous faith traps false prophets exploit.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    Yeah, carbon tax in isolation is regressive BUT the more recent proposals link a carbon tax with a rebate to low income and working class households. Under at least one plan, low income and working class households would receive a net gain. Alberta is currently doing a carbon tax + low income rebate for carbon-based fuels.

    I'm not quitting. I'm merely acknowledging the reality of the tragedy of the commons and politics.
    I just hear so many people listing all the obstacles to action as if that is an excuse to not act. Yeah, the reality sucks. Climate change is already happening, and reality is we aren't going to keep it to 1.5C or even 2C. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't start immediately an make the issue a priority. 2C is way worse than 1.5, but 2.5 is worse than 2, and 3 is worse than 2.5 and so on. We've got to keep it as low as possible and then hope we can come up with carbon capture technology capable of lowering the temperature to 1.5 or even lower.

    Giving up leads to a planet where half the land on earth is so hot that humans can't survive.

    "Now if that happened, something like half the Earth’s currently inhabited land would become too hot to survive on; and when I say too hot to survive on I don’t mean it’s difficult to grow beans or air conditioning bills are inconveniently high, I mean if you go outside you die of hotness. I mean, places that were an average of 80ºF would be now an average of 170-180ºF, literally too hot for human beings to go outside and survive"
    David Roberts http://visibleorder.com/climate-chan...mple/#comments

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Church attendances were far hudger pre-enlightenment...
    OTOH, pre-Enlightenment, Pope Francis could've ordered his Papal vassals to obliterate the apostates if they refused to heed his encyclical.

    Say what you will in defense of our modern systematic of government, but I'd take the Pope over Donald Trump on this kind of issue - and pretty much any other, for that matter.

  5. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    I just hear so many people listing all the obstacles to action as if that is an excuse to not act. Yeah, the reality sucks. Climate change is already happening, and reality is we aren't going to keep it to 1.5C or even 2C. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't start immediately an make the issue a priority. 2C is way worse than 1.5, but 2.5 is worse than 2, and 3 is worse than 2.5 and so on. We've got to keep it as low as possible and then hope we can come up with carbon capture technology capable of lowering the temperature to 1.5 or even lower.

    Giving up leads to a planet where half the land on earth is so hot that humans can't survive.

    "Now if that happened, something like half the Earth’s currently inhabited land would become too hot to survive on; and when I say too hot to survive on I don’t mean it’s difficult to grow beans or air conditioning bills are inconveniently high, I mean if you go outside you die of hotness. I mean, places that were an average of 80ºF would be now an average of 170-180ºF, literally too hot for human beings to go outside and survive"
    David Roberts http://visibleorder.com/climate-chan...mple/#comments
    But giving up lift served skiing and air travel as the way to access vacation paradise locations isn't something anyone on this forum would consider. Hitch a ride on a jumbo jet a thousand miles or so across the planet a couple times a season is OK as long as I'm earning my turns? Pretty sure staying home and riding the 300 foot vert lift all season would be way more earth friendly.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    But giving up lift served skiing and air travel as the way to access vacation paradise locations isn't something anyone on this forum would consider. Hitch a ride on a jumbo jet a thousand miles or so across the planet a couple times a season is OK as long as I'm earning my turns? Pretty sure staying home and riding the 300 foot vert lift all season would be way more earth friendly.
    But it's trivially inexpensive to run a chair lift on wind/solar and most people here would happily pony up an extra C note per plane ticket if that meant we were running planes on biofuels and thus not rendering the planet uninhabitable.

    Steve is right that it is a tragedy of the commons style problem, but we have solved these in the past. Look at SO2 mitigation or ITQ fisheries management for examples. These problems can be solved with decent leadership and political will.

  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    But it's trivially inexpensive to run a chair lift on wind/solar and most people here would happily pony up an extra C note per plane ticket if that meant we were running planes on biofuels and thus not rendering the planet uninhabitable.

    Steve is right that it is a tragedy of the commons style problem, but we have solved these in the past. Look at SO2 mitigation or ITQ fisheries management for examples. These problems can be solved with decent leadership and political will.
    It's more than just running the lifts, add in all the land that gets cleared, all the other infrastructure and surrounding community carbon footprint, everyone's burning wood for that mountain ambiance.. Gotta admit I REALLY LOVE staring in to a warm fireplace after a cold day of skiing. Roads, Co2 pushing water out of snow guns, etc.. Our sport and passion is quite eco antagonistic at the base level.. pun intended. Is anyone willing to give that up to help save the planet?
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    It's more than just running the lifts, add in all the land that gets cleared, all the other infrastructure and surrounding community carbon footprint, everyone's burning wood for that mountain ambiance.. Gotta admit I REALLY LOVE staring in to a warm fireplace after a cold day of skiing. Roads, Co2 pushing water out of snow guns, etc.. Our sport and passion is quite eco antagonistic at the base level.. pun intended. Is anyone willing to give that up to help save the planet?
    Sure, there are other environmental drawbacks to your typical ski resort town, but clearing land for ski runs and roads doesn't contribute to climate change (unless you want to count the loss of the cleared vegetation as a carbon sink, but that's not much). And heating your house with wood is theoretically completelu renewable with no net carbon impact (though the local particulate emissions can be nasty). Vail Resorts and several ski towns have pledged to be 100 percent powered by renewables within the next few years, and nobody thinks that's unreasonable.

    I'm totally with you on air travel , and on the spirit of me-first, fuck-you consumerism in general. The tourist towns are something of an orgy of gross consumerism, for sure. But if we all fly a little less and spend a little more to do so, there is no technical reason why we can't be riding sustainably-powered chairlifts, buying sustainable over-priced hats, and eating sustainable over-priced dinners out in Telluride or wherever in 50 years.

  9. #359
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    ^^^And traveling to get there in anything non EV. Not sure about this, but the production of the gear probably also costs some carbon credits. Lots of plastics and resins, steel, etc..
    Last edited by SumJongGuy; 10-11-2018 at 02:35 PM.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  10. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    The Pope has already declared climate change is man made and it is our responsibility to do something about it
    trying to distract from institutional pedophilia
    Last edited by wyeaster; 10-11-2018 at 02:46 PM.

  11. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyeaster View Post
    trying to distract from institutional pedophilia
    If what's been reported abut him is true then I really could care less what he says about anything ever again. I really had high hopes for this man, he seems to be turning into just another pope who hides institutionalized pedophilia.

  12. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    We heard everybody bitching about the fucking cold because highs were below 0. We bundled up and skied it because the snow was good and we remember MT being that cold all the time. Obviously, there's been some population turnover, but it is amazing how many people (even self-described outdoorsy people!) seem to forget what things were like just a decade
    Today on the news the team was talking about how lovely our week of dry 70s degree weather will be “so nice.”

    I am becoming convinced that most people in the temperate regions don’t care. They need to be shown the plight of those in the tropics. They need to see the destruction and plight, but that isn’t on the news very often, and people don’t watch the news very much anyway.

    I am optimistic for the group of kids suing the US. Their care is coming up in the District Court at the end of this month.

  13. #363
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    Regarding the suggestion of training bears to eat evangelicals:

    That’s too evil. Let’s just reintroduce bears to all of their former habitats. If there were bears roaming every city and town, people would pick up their shit. When they were tired of picking up their shit, they would start buying less shit.

  14. #364
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    I'm uncertain if this is satire or reality.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...climate-report

    My favorite sentence:

    "Even unchecked climate change is not on the scale of a nuclear holocaust; its costs are more akin to a couple world wars and global pandemics."
    "...if you're not doing a double flip cork something, skiing spines in Haines, or doing double flip cork somethings off spines in Haines, you're pretty much just gaping."

  15. #365
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    Not satire. That’s their typical slant.

    Agreed on best line. What kind of arguement is that?

  16. #366
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    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  17. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slopetime View Post
    If what's been reported abut him is true then I really could care less what he says about anything ever again. I really had high hopes for this man, he seems to be turning into just another pope who hides institutionalized pedophilia.
    The former Cardinal trying to slag Francis is a right-wingers with an ax to grind who thinks the Pope is too aggressive in punishing bishops and isn't blaming the gays hard enough. So maybe take it with a grain of salt. Not that Francis is cleaning house nearly as aggressively as I'd prefer, but he's in a nasty fight with those kinds of folks right now in order to try to get any kind of reform done.

    In any case, the leadership stance on climate change should just be taken as a welcome positive and shouldn't be mixed up with the bureaucratic infighting in the Vatican or past instances of circling the wagons to protect perverts.

    I don't know how to convince local news to cover high 70s or low 80s in late October in the Northeast as alarming. Local news is vapid.

  18. #368
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    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  19. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Let's train bears to hunt evangelicals.
    I'm your hucklebeary.

  20. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    But giving up lift served skiing and air travel as the way to access vacation paradise locations isn't something anyone on this forum would consider. Hitch a ride on a jumbo jet a thousand miles or so across the planet a couple times a season is OK as long as I'm earning my turns? Pretty sure staying home and riding the 300 foot vert lift all season would be way more earth friendly.
    Personal change, while important, is not going to make a dent in climate change anytime soon. You want to go fly to go skiing at a great ski resort? Stopping doing that will have minimal impact, but stopping burning coal and eliminating all fossil fuels will have a major impact. As the IPCC report says, "There is no historical precedent for the scale of the necessary transitions, in particular in a socially and economically sustainable way."

    To prevent 2.7 degrees of warming, the report said, greenhouse pollution must be reduced by 45 percent from 2010 levels by 2030, and 100 percent by 2050. It also found that, by 2050, use of coal as an electricity source would have to drop from nearly 40 percent today to between 1 and 7 percent. Renewable energy such as wind and solar, which make up about 20 percent of the electricity mix today, would have to increase to as much as 67 percent.

    “This report makes it clear: There is no way to mitigate climate change without getting rid of coal,” said Drew Shindell, a climate scientist at Duke University and an author of the report.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/07/c...port-2040.html

    Best thing you (we) can do? Have uncomfortable conversations about climate change. Help people care about taking action. Vote. Support climate heroes who are running for office. We need to get off of fossil fuels completely, and soon. Push for a carbon tax.

    Pervasive exhortations to individual action — in corporate ads, school textbooks, and the campaigns of mainstream environmental groups, especially in the west — seem as natural as the air we breathe. But we could hardly be worse-served.

    While we busy ourselves greening our personal lives, fossil fuel corporations are rendering these efforts irrelevant. The breakdown of carbon emissions since 1988? A hundred companies alone are responsible for an astonishing 71%. You tinker with those pens or that panel; they go on torching the planet.
    https://phys.org/news/2018-10-indivi...story.html#jCp

    The change we need is systemic. Your wife cares about the issue but drinks a case of La Croix every day? Keep donating, and talking about it. Her drinking La Croix or not isn't the issue. We have all been told that unless we do everything possible ourselves we have no right to say anything. I say bullshit. If I buy an electric car it doesn't matter, but when the entire fuel system has changed so that is all anyone can buy, now we are getting somewhere. We are better served by spending our energy on systemic change.

    Of course we need people to consume less and innovate low-carbon alternatives – build sustainable farms, invent battery storages, spread zero-waste methods. But individual choices will most count when the economic system can provide viable, environmental options for everyone—not just an affluent or intrepid few.

    If affordable mass transit isn’t available, people will commute with cars. If local organic food is too expensive, they won’t opt out of fossil fuel-intensive super-market chains. If cheap mass produced goods flow endlessly, they will buy and buy and buy. This is the con-job of neoliberalism: to persuade us to address climate change through our pocket-books, rather than through power and politics.

    Eco-consumerism may expiate your guilt. But it’s only mass movements that have the power to alter the trajectory of the climate crisis. This requires of us first a resolute mental break from the spell cast by neoliberalism: to stop thinking like individuals.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...as-individuals

  21. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    Personal change, while important, is not going to make a dent in climate change anytime soon. You want to go fly to go skiing at a great ski resort? Stopping doing that will have minimal impact, but stopping burning coal and eliminating all fossil fuels will have a major impact. As the IPCC report says, "There is no historical precedent for the scale of the necessary transitions, in particular in a socially and economically sustainable way."
    How many jets are in the air at any given time? As many as they can push down every runway of every airport per hour worldwide. How many people on those jets are flying because of a life and death necessity to be on that jet.. especially with the modern internet conferencing capabilities? How many are just pissing away money and time because they can instead of taking a more frugal and earth friendly solution to their need or desire to physically be someplace else in a hurry? Yes, power grids are a bigger fish, but if we're talking about getting everyone over to EVs, we should also be talking about getting those gas hog beasts out of the air or also running on electricity. Maybe we need to either triple the cost of air travel or start limiting it some other way to offset that decadence.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  22. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    How many jets are in the air at any given time? As many as they can push down every runway of every airport per hour worldwide. How many people on those jets are flying because of a life and death necessity to be on that jet.. especially with the modern internet conferencing capabilities? How many are just pissing away money and time because they can instead of taking a more frugal and earth friendly solution to their need or desire to physically be someplace else in a hurry? Yes, power grids are a bigger fish, but if we're talking about getting everyone over to EVs, we should also be talking about getting those gas hog beasts out of the air or also running on electricity. Maybe we need to either triple the cost of air travel or start limiting it some other way to offset that decadence.
    I don't disagree. I found a stat that in the UK 15% of people take 70% of the flights. We need to cut down on that for sure.

    We need to electrify everything. All fossil fuels need to be phased out by 2040 or 2050. That means jet fuel too.

    We do need to change our lifestyles dramatically, but most important for now is to change our energy systems.

    Policy changes are more effective for now than individual lifestyle changes.

    No airport expansion and no new fossil fuel development are good places to start while we work to get a price on carbon.

  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    The former Cardinal trying to slag Francis is a right-wingers with an ax to grind who thinks the Pope is too aggressive in punishing bishops and isn't blaming the gays hard enough. So maybe take it with a grain of salt. Not that Francis is cleaning house nearly as aggressively as I'd prefer, but he's in a nasty fight with those kinds of folks right now in order to try to get any kind of reform done.

    In any case, the leadership stance on climate change should just be taken as a welcome positive and shouldn't be mixed up with the bureaucratic infighting in the Vatican or past instances of circling the wagons to protect perverts.

    I don't know how to convince local news to cover high 70s or low 80s in late October in the Northeast as alarming. Local news is vapid.

    I sincerely hope that's the case. I stopped being a believer long ago, but the things Francis said truly impressed me. He really seemed to grasp what religion should be doing.

    I'm going to have to hold back on my endorsement for right now on your comments. I doubt it'll affect much any way. I appreciate the comments.

  24. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    All fossil fuels need to be phased out by 2040 or 2050.
    This won't happen until the most powerful people in the world have transferred their investments away from fossil fuels in to some other commodity that further ensures their enormous wealth and global control. It appears a lot of them are now trying to corner the market on drinkable water... and that would probably include water used in snow making. Seems like something that couldn't possibly happen, but nothing surprises me anymore.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  25. #375
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    Sounds like the getting out of hand par is still coming for us. Time to move bitchez.

    https://earther.gizmodo.com/here-s-w...-fo-1829793126

    A United Nations report published last week said we have about a decade to get climate change under control, which—let’s be honest—isn’t likely to happen. So break out your goalie masks and harpoon guns, a Mad Max future awaits! Now, as new research points out, we even know where on Earth the inevitable water wars are most likely to take place.

    Sarcasm aside, this report is actually quite serious.

    Published today in Global Environmental Change, the paper identifies several hotspots around the globe where “hydro-political issues,” in the parlance of the researchers, are likely to give rise to geopolitical tensions, and possibly even conflict. The authors of the new report, a team from the European Commission’s Joint Research Centre (JRC), say the escalating effects of climate change, in conjunction with ongoing trends in population growth, could trigger regional instability and social unrest in regions where freshwater is scarce, and where bordering nations have to manage and share this increasingly scarce commodity.

    Obviously, the causes of geopolitical tension and conflict are complex, but as the new report makes clear, we shouldn’t underestimate the role that water is going to play in the future. Competition for dwindling water resources, the authors say, will exacerbate tensions on a global scale in the coming decades, with certain regions more vulnerable than others. But how are the various factors that influence water demand and availability likely to affect populations around the world?


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

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