Ok, this global warming shit is getting out of hand...

[ron johnson]

There’s plenty of science questioning the connection between co2 and global warming.

But with enough faux news and rightard media you dismiss the mass slaughter of Mother Earth and say full steam ahead

Myself I’m not convinced co2 is the root cause, but I know we’ve slaughtered too many forests and created too much garbage, pollution and over population to have not fucked things up big time.

Conservation for conservation sake might not be a bad message instead.

I'm fully on board with calling out humanity's environmental destruction, I just don't view CO2 as a big problem, and I don't see its potential replacements (wind, solar, and hydro) as being much better environmentally. I'm 100% behind conservation, clean waters, regenerative farming, and.... (gasp) less people.

[ron johnson]

As a patron of the sciences you are no doubt aware that definitions are of utmost importance.
Please define a scientific consensus. Without this information we have no point of reference for your position.

Strong agreement amongst scientists in a specific field. Is there some other definition?

[WMD]

I guess the EU are just a bunch of idiots then.

"EU lays out 1 trillion-euro plan to support Green Deal"

The European Union plans to dedicate a quarter of its budget to tackling climate change and to work to shift 1 trillion euros ($1.1 trillion) in investment toward making the EU’s economy more environmentally friendly over the next 10 years.

https://apnews.com/5d4db8ffda58f03f090a04c35f0a2dc8

[k2skier112]

Attachment 311068

We are doomed guys. We are talking about colonizing Mars, but we won't be able to figure out how to live in a 2 degree warmer world.

shut the fuck up you ignorant cunt

[stuckathuntermtn]

CO2 never hurt anyone. Just put a bag over your head and try it. Please!

[stuckathuntermtn]

There’s plenty of science questioning the connection between co2 and global warming.

But with enough faux news and rightard media you dismiss the mass slaughter of Mother Earth and say full steam ahead

Myself I’m not convinced co2 is the root cause, but I know we’ve slaughtered too many forests and created too much garbage, pollution and over population to have not fucked things up big time.

Conservation for conservation sake might not be a bad message instead.

The only legit science is trying to determine what and how severe the effects are.
Yes there is also methane, but if there's something else you know better about thermodynamics than the rest of the world, please let us know.

[dan_pdx]

No, you would be like the guy saying we must stop using horses for transportation... in the 1700's... before the engine was even invented.

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. Solar, wind, hydro and nuclear as well as new battery technology and alternative storage like pumped hydro etc. all qualify as "the engine"...but you knew that, right? And you know what, the market responds when appropriate stimuli are applied. If we provide a carrot in terms of tax incentives / supporting research etc. and a stick in the form of a carbon tax, do you really think we can't come up with something better than what we have now?

Or are you the guy in the 1700s who's saying "we must always use horses for transportation and should never think of replacing them with something better"? Well hello there, Ned Ludd!

[rideit]

I blame the pernicious denier media

[Bunion 2020]

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse.

NOW????????

[dan_pdx]

NOW????????

Ha! Good point

[skaredshtles]

You folks are STILL arguing with that bot?

[rideit]

He’s a lot like Syadasti

[jamal]

There’s plenty of science questioning the connection between co2 and global warming.

Care to share some of this science?

Here's the noaa's take on it

https://www.climate.gov/news-feature...carbon-dioxide

[Core Shot]

The noaa article clearly shows increased co2. No one argues that.
But how much has that co2 caused warming?
And why has the argument shifted from global warming to climate change?

I would agree about methane. That shit is way more greenhouse gas once you factor in how long it remains in the atmosphere after a release. Arctic methane is a bitch and likely to do us in more than co2.

And don’t forget mr sunshine. Maunder Minimum etc.
Its possible the recent decrease in solar radiation might be hiding the otherwise larger increase that in temp from co2 and ch4

[ron johnson]

The 2018 FOURTH NATIONAL CLIMATE ASSESSMENT Volume II: Impacts, Risks, and Adaptation in the United States says that on our current path global warming will reduce GDP by as much as 10% by the end of the century.

That's a bigger loss, twice the size, as the 2008 economic crash, which would be a political disaster.

We have already discussed how the NCA is little more than a political propaganda report masquerading as science. It's funny to think anyone can predict GDP in 80 years, whats even funnier is that 10% number is based on an absurd study that predicts the world will be 15'F warmer.

By undervaluing the benefit of doing more today, deniers underestimate the risks of their inaction and are, ironically, setting the stage for more draconian, more authoritarian government intervention in the future.


https://nca2018.globalchange.gov/

That is too rich, if you don't accept more authoritative gov't today, you will be stuck with it later!!

[ron johnson]

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. Solar, wind, hydro and nuclear as well as new battery technology and alternative storage like pumped hydro etc. all qualify as "the engine"...but you knew that, right? And you know what, the market responds when appropriate stimuli are applied. If we provide a carrot in terms of tax incentives / supporting research etc. and a stick in the form of a carbon tax, do you really think we can't come up with something better than what we have now?

Or are you the guy in the 1700s who's saying "we must always use horses for transportation and should never think of replacing them with something better"? Well hello there, Ned Ludd!

You are being obtuse. Solar, wind, hydro and batteries do not qualify as "the engine", they would be lesser versions of the horse like a sheep or goat because they lack the reliability and cost effectiveness of fossil fuels.

There is already massive incentive for energy innovation. I don't see gov't intervention moving the needle much in that department.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I blame the pernicious denier media

And the sad thing is, it's literally the same bullshit we've seen before with cigarettes, the Ozone Layer, etc. Not only is it the same bullshit misinformation tactics, but it's often being carried out by the same fucking people or agencies who are now just older and more practiced at it.

[stuckathuntermtn]

The noaa article clearly shows increased co2. No one argues that.
But how much has that co2 caused warming?
And why has the argument shifted from global warming to climate change?

I would agree about methane. That shit is way more greenhouse gas once you factor in how long it remains in the atmosphere after a release. Arctic methane is a bitch and likely to do us in more than co2.

And don’t forget mr sunshine. Maunder Minimum etc.
Its possible the recent decrease in solar radiation might be hiding the otherwise larger increase that in temp from co2 and ch4

This is literally all known quantities. It's called science. Chemists and physicists have long since figured out the properties of these compounds and what they do. They're so stable and so ubiquitous that I don't even think they've found at anything very new about them in ages.
There's also CO2's effect on ocean acidification and coral bleaching. I'm sorry that since you can't always see your car's exhaust that this seems to make it somehow difficult to understand for you.

Sun spots, sunshine, Mankalovich Cycles? Again, there's lots of people whose job is literally studying this shit.

So go on, tell us what you think you know better than these people.

[dan_pdx]

You are being obtuse. Solar, wind, hydro and batteries do not qualify as "the engine", they would be lesser versions of the horse like a sheep or goat because they lack the reliability and cost effectiveness of fossil fuels.

There is already massive incentive for energy innovation. I don't see gov't intervention moving the needle much in that department.

So in other words "Oh no, it's impossible for our society to come up with anything better than the status quo!"

LOL, I actually feel a little sorry for you that you are paid to deliver that line...

[stuckathuntermtn]

1 more thing, have you heard of the planets Venus or Mars? Sure you have. One of the main reasons they can't support life as we know it is too much CO2. Look it up. Something about runaway greenhouse effect. At least in the case of Venus.

[Dantheman]

The noaa article clearly shows increased co2. No one argues that.
But how much has that co2 caused warming?

Heat absorption by CO2 was accurately quantified in the 19th century.

And why has the argument shifted from global warming to climate change?

Global warming is going to create regional climate change. "Climate change" is a far more accurate term for what people will actually experience on the ground.

[Core Shot]

Have you considered terminating your existence?
Do you or still eat meat?
Do you own a car? Of any kind. Even the vaunted Tesla is worse than pubic transportation
I hope you aren’t so selfish to be living in a freestanding home.
So wasteful.

I certainly hope you earn all your own turns. Lift served skiing should be banned. At least a car might take you to work to produce something useful. But lift skiing is frivolous and should be banned ASAP.

[neufox47]

the ideal gas law.

Ron couldn’t read a basic graph and failed to understand intermediate statistics. You think he has the capacity to understand the ideal gas law?

I was around a bunch of boomer deniers this week. A few of whom I’ve know through work for years and have heard them on this topic before. They all now seemed to have begrudgingly come around to the fact that GW / CC is real. Yet lack the self awareness to admit how wrong they were on the topic. Yet still oppose any action to curb green house gas emissions as it is inconvenient and could harm the economy in the short term. Several even through in a, “well I’ll be gone before we really have to deal with it anyways. The kids will have to figure it out.” Leave the next generations up to their eyeballs in fiscal and climatological debt.... cool guys.

[dan_pdx]

Have you considered terminating your existence?
Do you or still eat meat?
Do you own a car? Of any kind. Even the vaunted Tesla is worse than pubic transportation
I hope you aren’t so selfish to be living in a freestanding home.
So wasteful.

I certainly hope you earn all your own turns. Lift served skiing should be banned. At least a car might take you to work to produce something useful. But lift skiing is frivolous and should be banned ASAP.

Oh yeah, that's right, only people who are perfect can try to improve things

[k2skier112]

Have you considered terminating your existence?
Do you or still eat meat?
Do you own a car? Of any kind. Even the vaunted Tesla is worse than pubic transportation
I hope you aren’t so selfish to be living in a freestanding home.
So wasteful.

I certainly hope you earn all your own turns. Lift served skiing should be banned. At least a car might take you to work to produce something useful. But lift skiing is frivolous and should be banned ASAP.

Why does it have to be so extreme? Just cutting back some is a good thing...

Your quote; And why has the argument shifted from global warming to climate change?
If this is really how you think, your are very ignorant. Assuming you're ignorant and asking a real question; when one of the drivers of weather change, ie moisture, temperature wind, geography...you will get a different outcome. When the temperature increases it will effect the weather, weather patterns over a long period of time are climate. So when the temperature increases it mwill lead to a change in climate.

But you know that. Your comment is just a denier tactic.
https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/12/what...lobal-warming/

The largest CO2 producer in the USA is transportation, followed close by energy, it would be easy to make fuel mileage standards, but every PUTUS has kicked that can down the road
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sou...-gas-emissions