Ok, this global warming shit is getting out of hand...

[SumJongGuy]

We have well established that nights have been less cool than in the past, resulting in higher mean temperatures, so this is not unexpected. This is not proof of more extreme heat in the US since very few state record highs have been set in the 21st century, and we know heat waves were much worse pre 1950.

I thought we were supposed to be avoiding regional data and focusing on the bigger picture..

[ron johnson]

If by "we" ron means that like so many other discussions ron continued poisoning the well by asking the same questions over and over without caring about the answers, ignored the previous discussion, ignored the literature, and on and on for page after page... then yeah "we" have established "that nights have been less cool than in the past, resulting in higher mean temperatures":

You are so full of shit its getting to be ridiculous. You accuse me of asking the same questions over and over when I rarely even ask you questions, I mostly just respond to your junk with information. I reserve the questions for trying to make sense of your incoherent responses. The quotes you have highlighted are out of context and irrelevant to our current discussion. I wasn't sure what a high min record was, so what? A high min record doesn't suggest less extreme heat, but neither does the ratio of record highs to record lows guarantee more extreme heat.

BTW, do you ever notice how I pick apart all of your posts piece by piece while you pick and choose what is convenient for you to respond to?

[ron johnson]

I thought we were supposed to be avoiding regional data and focusing on the bigger picture..

MV is the one who brought up the record highs to record lows in the US.

[SumJongGuy]

MV is the one who brought up the record highs to record lows in the US.

And you drilled down to state level regions

[SumJongGuy]

I AM so full of shit its getting to be ridiculous. You accuse me of asking the same questions over and over when I rarely even ask you questions, I mostly just respond to your INFORMATION with JUNK.

Fixed it for you

[SkiCougar]

[rideit]

I have, but like I said, I could try to make the case for the sky being blue and you wouldn't accept it.

Here’s the thing about that. WE are the ones telling YOU the sky is blue, but you have one photo that you saw on some website showing a cloudy day in 1951, so YOU are asserting that the sky is indeed, not blue.
Have some self awareness, you even get your clichés wrong.
This one makes you foolish.

[L82thegate]

I had to read more after Mr. Johnson conveniently provided a link to "the conversation" regarding Australia and bushfires. That was written in late 2013 by the way. If you read more current articles from this source, you'll find many stories that describe a climate change problem and how geo-political it truly is. For example this excerpt:
"But even without explicit efforts to confuse and divide the public, climate change would still be a uniquely challenging issue to talk about in ways that motivate public engagement rather than inspire despair and fatalism.The sad irony, of course, is that the story of climate change is in fact a deeply human one – we caused it, we will suffer from it and we alone can take action to avoid its worst consequences and prepare for the rest."
More where that came from and the articles are well researched, written by people a whole lot smarter than me. Some very intelligent insights there. Ron, your own linked "source" seems to discredit your argument? I better get a bigger shovel if I come back to this thread.

[MultiVerse]

I thought we were supposed to be avoiding regional data and focusing on the bigger picture..

Even then about half (23) of all time max high state records were broken after 1950.

There have been marked changes in temperature extremes across the contiguous United States. The frequency of cold waves has decreased since the early 1900s, and the frequency of heat waves has increased since the mid-1960s (the Dust Bowl remains the peak period for extreme heat). The number of high temperature records for a given day set in the past two decades far exceeds the number of low temperature records.

In other words, since 1950, the United States is experiencing both significant extreme heat (extreme hot daily highs) and extreme hot daily lows which is why mean temps are up, it's not just nights getting warmer.



Whereas ron first tried to argue there hasn't been any warming by first suggesting Australia as an example, and then after the whole nights are getting warmer/increasing daily highs for that day explanation, raising mean temperatures, ron tried arguing it was only low temps that were increasing:

Australia's land temperature has had no warming since the late 1800's

Not if your low temperatures keep increasing, but maximum temperatures don't. And who knows what effect the coming Grand Solar Minimum will have.

[ron johnson]

And you drilled down to state level regions

MV is talking about the US and I'm talking about 50 states... aka the entire US.

[ron johnson]

Here’s the thing about that. WE are the ones telling YOU the sky is blue, but you have one photo that you saw on some website showing a cloudy day in 1951, so YOU are asserting that the sky is indeed, not blue.
Have some self awareness, you even get your clichés wrong.
This one makes you foolish.

You are wrong and you have repeatedly demonstrated that you have spent zero time ever trying to understand climate change beyond the headlines you read. You have been quickly approaching JongGuy level of uselessness in this thread. Your opinion is worth nothing.

[ron johnson]

I had to read more after Mr. Johnson conveniently provided a link to "the conversation" regarding Australia and bushfires. That was written in late 2013 by the way. If you read more current articles from this source, you'll find many stories that describe a climate change problem and how geo-political it truly is. For example this excerpt:
"But even without explicit efforts to confuse and divide the public, climate change would still be a uniquely challenging issue to talk about in ways that motivate public engagement rather than inspire despair and fatalism.The sad irony, of course, is that the story of climate change is in fact a deeply human one – we caused it, we will suffer from it and we alone can take action to avoid its worst consequences and prepare for the rest."
More where that came from and the articles are well researched, written by people a whole lot smarter than me. Some very intelligent insights there. Ron, your own linked "source" seems to discredit your argument? I better get a bigger shovel if I come back to this thread.

I have acknowledged that it was written in 2013, but it is still valid. You can add in the recent fires and there is no increasing trend to be found.

The Conversation publishes both alarmist global warming pieces, and skeptic pieces. It doesn't invalidate either side.

[ron johnson]

Even then about half (23) of all time max high state records were broken after 1950.

I count 18 with a handful of those records from the 1950's, and only 3 records broken (or tied) in the 21st century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._s...ature_extremes

There have been marked changes in temperature extremes across the contiguous United States. The frequency of cold waves has decreased since the early 1900s, and the frequency of heat waves has increased since the mid-1960s (the Dust Bowl remains the peak period for extreme heat). The number of high temperature records for a given day set in the past two decades far exceeds the number of low temperature records.

In other words, since 1950, the United States is experiencing both significant extreme heat (extreme hot daily highs) and extreme hot daily lows which is why mean temps are up, it's not just nights getting warmer.

Back to cherry picking your start date huh?




Time to give it up and admit defeat.

Whereas ron first tried to argue there hasn't been any warming by first suggesting Australia as an example, and then after the whole nights are getting warmer/increasing daily highs for that day explanation, raising mean temperatures, ron tried arguing it was only low temps that were increasing:

There you go again pulling quotes with no context.

[old goat]

The only way to settle this thing is with a ski off. Pretty sure Ron will lose. And if you can't find snow Ron has definitely lost.

[Svengali]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1201263777322323968

[SumJongGuy]

[QUOTE=ron johnson;5825645]I count 18 with a handful of those records from the 1950's, and only 3 records broken (or tied) in the 21st century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._s...ature_extremes

I count 25 out of 57 post 1950.

State, Record high Date
South Dakota 120 °F / 49 °C July 15, 2006*
Missouri 118 °F / 48 °C July 14, 1954*
Texas 120 °F / 49 °C June 28, 1994*
United States Virgin IslandsVirgin Islands (U.S.) [10] 99 °F / 37.2 °C June 23, 1996*
Washington (state)Washington 118 °F / 48 °C August 5, 1961*
Georgia (U.S. state)Georgia 112 °F / 44 °C August 20, 1983*
Oklahoma 122 °F / 50 °C August 12, 1936*
American Samoa [note 1][2] 99 °F / 37.2 °C April 27, 1972*
Colorado 115 °F / 46 °C 7/20/2019
South Carolina 113 °F / 45 °C 6/29/2012
Northern Mariana Islands 99 °F / 37.2 °C 7/8/2010
Puerto Rico [10] 104 °F / 40.0°C 7/2/1996
Connecticut 106 °F / 41 °C 7/15/1995
Arizona 128 °F / 53 °C 6/29/1994
Nevada 125 °F / 52 °C 6/29/1994
New Mexico 122 °F / 50 °C 6/27/1994
Utah 117 °F / 47 °C 7/5/1985
North Carolina 110 °F / 43 °C 8/21/1983
Wyoming 115 °F / 46 °C 8/8/1983
Massachusetts 107 °F / 42 °C 8/2/1975
Rhode Island 104 °F / 40 °C 8/2/1975
Hawaii 98 °F / 37 °C 7/14/1957
Virginia 110 °F / 43 °C 7/15/1954
Illinois 117 °F / 47 °C 7/14/1954

[rideit]

You are wrong and you have repeatedly demonstrated that you have spent zero time ever trying to understand climate change beyond the headlines you read. You have been quickly approaching JongGuy level of uselessness in this thread. Your opinion is worth nothing.

You know that phrase about playing chess with a pigeon?
You are that pigeon...it is more useful denigrating you than actually engaging with you.

[MultiVerse]

Contrary to ron's claims that his posts on the previous page were taken out of context, he wrote "Australia's land temperature has had no warming since the late 1800's" and referenced a daily max temps chart for 25 locations to specifically argue against the idea that average air and sea temperatures have increased overall.

A reasonable person, that is anyone other than ron, would then recognize that the 1950 start date is not cherry picked but is instead in response to the subsequent U.S. pre-1950 vs post-1950 discussion.

A reasonable person, that is anyone other than ron, would acknowledge that even though many of the U.S.'s 1930s dust bowl absolute high records still stand, which was mentioned several times, and discussed at length previously, that average temps have increased due to increasing ratios of: warmer nighttime temps, increasing daily highs, increasing record highs (but not all time highs everywhere) and increasing high mins. This is what that looks like for Australia and also globally through 2018:

[WMD]

No surprise that you have learned nothing.

Oh, but you are wrong again. I've learned so much, including that you are completely dishonest and will go to great lengths to spread your lies.

I've also learned that the climate crisis is much worse than we thought even a year ago and that it is getting worse rapidly.

"Our Planet May Be Barreling Toward a Tipping Point"

"A thawing Antarctica, a transforming Amazon, and other devastating changes may be more likely than scientists previously believed."

Today in the journal Nature, a group of researchers argues that we're closer to tipping nine climate demons than previously believed, and that we're already starting to see some associated effects. “We argue that the intervention time left to prevent tipping could already have shrunk towards zero, whereas the reaction time to achieve net zero emissions is 30 years at best,” they write. “Hence we might already have lost control of whether tipping happens.”

We can still, however, act to lessen the damage. The bet we have to make is clearer than ever, but time is running out. “How are we going to look back in half a century’s time and regret the fact that we've built a more sustainable, flourishing future for many more generations to come?” asks lead author Tim Lenton, director of the Global Systems Institute at the University of Exeter. “Instead of just hanging in there with finite reserves of fossil fuels, and sort of embracing the apocalypse.”

https://www.wired.com/story/climate-tipping-point/

[rideit]

The difference between us and Ron is that we have been actually watching The climate change with our own eyes around the globe, while he has been stuck in his moms basement looking at manipulated graphs. Kind of like being a weatherman on a submarine with no outside communication.

[WMD]

"Climate change: COP25 talks to open as 'point of no return' in sight"

"Political leaders and climate diplomats are to meet in Madrid for two weeks of talks amid a growing sense of crisis.

"According to UN Secretary General António Guterres, "the point of no return is no longer over the horizon".

"Meanwhile, Save the Children says that climate shocks have left millions in Africa facing hunger.

"The charity says 33 million people are at emergency levels of food insecurity due to cyclones and droughts."


https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50614518

[rideit]

Good thing the Coral Reef are doing so well.

[ron johnson]

I count 25 out of 57 post 1950.

Of US states, on recount I get 19.

[ron johnson]

Contrary to ron's claims that his posts on the previous page were taken out of context, he wrote "Australia's land temperature has had no warming since the late 1800's" and referenced a daily max temps chart for 25 locations to specifically argue against the idea that average air and sea temperatures have increased overall.

Please provide the post number so I can see what the discussion was about.

A reasonable person, that is anyone other than ron, would then recognize that the 1950 start date is not cherry picked but is instead in response to the subsequent U.S. pre-1950 vs post-1950 discussion.

WTF pre vs post 1950 discussion are you talking about? I have always acknowledged there has been an increase in extreme heat post 1950, but its nothing compared to pre 1950 data.

A reasonable person, that is anyone other than ron, would acknowledge that even though many of the U.S.'s 1930s dust bowl absolute high records still stand, which was mentioned several times, and discussed at length previously, that average temps have increased due to increasing ratios of: warmer nighttime temps, increasing daily highs, increasing record highs (but not all time highs everywhere) and increasing high mins. This is what that looks like for Australia and also globally through 2018:

Average temps have not increased in the US and Australia due to more extreme heat/higher summer temperatures. The graphs on my previous post make that clear as day.

A reasonable person would admit they are wrong rather than keep trying to defend and an undefendable position. It's not that hard.

[ron johnson]

The difference between us and Ron is that we have been actually watching The climate change with our own eyes around the globe, while he has been stuck in his moms basement looking at manipulated graphs. Kind of like being a weatherman on a submarine with no outside communication.

You mean like that guy from Iowa who claimed he accepted global warming based on how much hotter and worse he thought the weather was getting even though the data said the opposite?

You'd have to be a moron to think your personal experience of 30? 40? 50? years of weather is proof of anything.