Fake Service Dogs......

[mtngirl79]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29...colorado-house

Rep. Daniel Kagan, an Arapahoe County Democrat who is sponsoring the bill, explained that it would make the offense punishable in the same way that taking a disabled parking space is punishable — a $33 surcharge plus a fine of:

• $350 to $1,000 for a first offense;

• $600 to $1,000 for a second offense;

• $1,000 to $5,000 and up to 10 hours of community service for a third or subsequent offense.

Impersonating a disabled person is already a felony.

The issue isn't the lack of laws against fake service animals. The issue is the lack of a clear definition of disability, service animal, training, and tasks as well as the high level of protection that is granted disabled people by the ADA.

That, and what are you really going to do? Most of the fakers I see are homeless or near homeless and their crime is usually nothing more than annoying. They can't pay a fine, they just won't do it. Putting them in jail would be a waste of money. Taking away the animal would create a huge public outcry and they would just get another.

[iceman]

So no bear. How about an orangutan?

Well it could come in handy.

[mefa30]

At my current apartment in Orange County, CA, there are a few "therapy dogs". One is a tiny chihuahua that constantly makes this obnoxious scratchy barking noise all day long. Normal, non therapy dogs are not allowed here.

Service/ therapy dogs are mostly a sham here. Reminds me of getting a medical weed card, a lot of places have a Dr. that just screens you via a Skype videoconference. There is likely a fake therapy dog industry.

I think there is also a fake Handicapped placard industry as well. I love seeing some douche rolling coal in a perfectly manicured lifted bro truck with no hitch horizontally parking over 3 handicapped spots. Hell, in Weber county, UT they sometimes don't even bother with getting a handicapped placard. Ive never seen horizontal parking, especially over handicapped spots until I worked in Ogden, UT.

If you are handicapped, how can you get in and out of a truck 4' in the air?

California dog owners are some of the worst Ive met. They bring their dogs everywhere, let them roam loose without a leash and often don't clean up their shit.

I was just at Home Depot and some lady picking out garden lights brought two very aggressive dogs leashed up inside a cart. Why can't the dogs just stay home?

I should get a therapy pit pull that eats tiny dogs......

[concretejungle]

A guy at the climbing gym has a service dog or a comfort dog. It's a pit bull. I almost fell on it the other day when it ran under the bouldering area. Later that same day some kids walked up to it and started to pet it and the guy said something to the effect of it doesn't like kids since it was abused by kids before he got it. I understand that kids shouldn't try to pet strange dogs but how about you don't bring the fucking thing to the climbing gym unleashed or at all.

[smitchell333]

Well it could come in handy.

Exactly. Someone to reveal your deepest feelings to and to beat the shit out of people for you.

[Benny Profane]

Comfort animals are different than service animals
Comfort animals don't have to perform tasks and are allowed in housing and on airplanes. They are not covered by the ADA. Service animals are allowed everywhere.

Thanks for that, but, you know, link? Or, did you just make it up?

[Benny Profane]

There are a few aging crack whores I pick up on the regular

I'll bet you have a lot of old times to chat about.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

...And at least it was well enough trained it didn't trip the kid in the aisle..

Yabut.... could we train him to trip the running kid in the aisle?

[TBS]

California dog owners are some of the worst Ive met. They bring their dogs everywhere, let them roam loose without a leash and often don't clean up their shit.

Haven't been to Paris, eh?

[mefa30]

I think we are really splitting hairs with the comfort/ therapy versus service dog distinction.

The point is that people are getting these dogs by abusing the system so that they get special rules.

In the apartment I am at now, I liked how no dogs were allowed. Now, I will have to get into more detail next time and ask if ANY dog is there (comfort/ therapy/ service), etc.

Makes me want to move to Alta. Best ski area around and no dogs.

[mefa30]

Haven't been to Paris, eh?

No, but it would not surprise me that they are rude/ inconsiderate. Ive heard stories about French lift lines.

[Phill]

Thanks for that, but, you know, link? Or, did you just make it up?

Its true and its bullshit. Basically the ADA protects seeing eye dogs but there are other regulations that allow for basically anybody to have their pet on a plane or in otherwise no-pet housing.

[Phill]

Seeing eye dogs provide an obvious and undeniably valuable service to the blind beyond that which an ordinary pet would. Emotional service animals don't. That's the long and short of it.

[mefa30]

How is someone that has a disability abusing the system because they have an emotional support/comfort dog? Not all disabilities are visible.

I mean, a severely matted and obese shih tzipoo is highly unlikely to be a service dog, but how can you really tell a person in an apartment that you do not really know with a companion animal doesn't have something wrong with them?

Okay, so what is the standard for a prescribing someone a therapy dog? Sounds like everyone can pay off a Dr. and get one similar to a medical weed card.

I wasn't specifically saying that only blind people should have dogs, but it is a pretty clear cut standard to hold to.

I have anxiety when snowboarders are around, can I get a dog?

I want to roll coal to Wal Mart and park my lifted diesel bro truck in the handicapped spot because walking in my poorly fitted shoes causes me warts. Can I get a handicapped placard?

There needs to be some sort of a standard to dolling out special rules. If not, then everyone can be eligible and it negates having these exceptions.

Should a quadriplegic and his/ her caretaker have to park in the back of the parking lot because there are no more handicapped spots left because some douche thinks he/ she is better then everyone else and snookered a Dr. into giving him/ her a handicapped placard?

[The AD]

A dog taking up a seat on an airplane is going a little far, but in general I don't have a problem with dogs in stores or even restaurants. I'll bet humans cause way more problems at these places than dogs do.

[ill-advised strategy]

I had to make a bus full of working people late the other day in order to load a woman's "service dog" that she wheels around in a baby carriage on the wheelchair lift. She loudly, proudly tells everyone in earshot about how she moved here so she could visit her husband in prison and that she can't get a job because it would interfere with her gravy train.

These are the people who ruin it for everyone else, and they are very real.

[Phill]

A dog taking up a seat on an airplane is going a little far, but in general I don't have a problem with dogs in stores or even restaurants. I'll bet humans cause way more problems at these places than dogs do.

I think this is an important issue. If more places were cool about well behaved dogs, less people would tempted to fraudulently pass their pets off as service animals.

[BigDaddy]

A dog taking up a seat on an airplane is going a little far...

I just flew back from VA to Boston with our new puppy the other week. My ticket was $50 each way (great deal) while the dog ticket was $100 one way and he was in a carry on under the seat in front of me.

I'm glad I could have him in the cabin, with us but it's kind of lame we paid double for nothing.

[mefa30]

I think this is an important issue. If more places were cool about well behaved dogs, less people would tempted to fraudulently pass their pets off as service animals.

Exactly, a lot of times these dogs I encounter are not well behaved so the owner needs to find a legal way to bend the rules so the dog gets carte blanche rights to go and do whatever they want.

The dogs I mentioned previously at home depot are hardly well behaved and I find it hard to believe that provide any service/ therapy. If those dogs wound up at the pound, they would likely be deemed as unadpotable and put down for temperament reasons.

[Phill]

What about home trained dogs? .

Home trained service dogs face an insurmountable credibility problem. That should be excluded outright.

[mefa30]

I believe there are pretty clear cut rules about who qualifies for disabled parking permits and stiff penalties for violations, so I don't think that applies to this.

The issue with SERVICE dogs is that the ADA is so scary that it is not worth it for businesses to question a person about a service dog unless that dog is behaving badly.

Service dogs can do a lot of things for a lot of different REAL disabilities beyond seeing eye dogs for the blind. The problem is that real, trained service dogs are really, really expensive, insurance does not pay for them, and there is often waiting lists, so people "train them themselves" or with the help of family, friends, local dog trainers, etc

This works SOMETIMES, like, a person with mobility issues might have a retrieving type dog trained to pick up objects off the floor. A good natured lab could easily be trained to perform that task by most people that have trained a few dogs before. The same dog could also probably be pretty easy to teach to behave in public.

Then you have dogs that can smell allergens, dogs that can tell someone is going to have a seizure, PTSD dogs that are suppose to do various things to distract a person, or dogs that interrupt self harming behavior.

I read an article about using dogs for autistic children. The children get really upset when they are held on to by a parent or caregiver, but you can tie a dog to them and train the dog to keep the kid where you want them, or bring the kid to the caregiver, etc, and that doesn't upset the kid.

The list is endless, and nearly impossible to "test" with the two questions you are allowed to ask. Is that a service dog and what tasks does it perform.

Now, whenever the suggestion about requiring certification comes up, lots of people scream because who would do the certifying? What about home trained dogs? How and where do you draw the line? How do you prove a dog can detect an oncoming seizure? Some real disabilities that have real trained dogs are harder to "test" than others.

How much will it cost? Many of these people are on fixed incomes, cannot work, and have extremely high medical costs already. So who pays for it?

As for "comfort animals" the definition of disability is having a condition or ever have had a condition that severely inhibits one or more major aspects of your like, like moving, eating, walking, socializing, working, seeing, hearing, talking...

Many conditions are pretty isolating, and having a pet can drastically improve the quality of life, but many of those conditions also limit the person's earning potential and make it difficult to find housing that will allow pets. Senior citizens benefit a lot from the companion animal laws.

So basically you are arguing that anyone can get a therapy dog. Snowboarders give me anxiety, where do I sign up?

As for the parking permits having strict rules, Im not so sure. They used to be called "handicapped" spots, meaning someone has a physical handicap. I suppose you could argue that someone who is autistic could get a handicapped placard, but what is preventing that autistic person from walking in the parking lot like the rest of us?

By opening up the flood gates on who can park in a handicapped spot or have a dog everywhere, you are disenfranchising those who legitimately require the rules to be bent for them (a blind person, someone in a wheel chair, someone who gets seizures often, etc.)

Like I said in my previous comment, I have seem many people in Ogden, Ut with diesel bro trucks and a 4' lift with a handicapped placard. A lot of able bodied people couldn't get in and out of that truck, how can someone supposedly has a physical handicap that requires them to park next to an entrance do so?

[Benny Profane]

Mtngirl, our resident cat lady.

[Benny Profane]

I like pussy.

[mefa30]

here is Utah requirements for disabled parking. Its a lot more restrictive than the service dog laws...

Okay, well I have personally seen people in Wasatch county (often) jump out of their lifted bro truck that don't meet those qualifications.

By Utah standards, you can't get a handicapped placard for non visual reasons (snowboarder anxiety) except for cardiac or lung reasons.

If you have a physical condition, how can you drive and get in/ out of a 4' lifted truck?
If you have a severe cardiac condition, should you be driving heavy duty equipment? Why isn't a regular car sufficient?
If you have a lung condition, should you be rolling coal and breathing in diesel soot?

I don't think "disabled parking" regulations are nearly as well regulated as you led yourself to believe.

[iceman]