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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    Many disabilities are invisible, and the vast majority of suspected "fake" service dogs are carried around/sit on their owners lap.

    We require them to be on the floor or their owner. If the dog wasn't doing anything wrong and you were harassing the owner, I would ask you to leave.
    Fair enough. You can ask if they are service dogs though, and if not you can ask them to leave. The ADA doesn't recognize ESA's, legit or not. I get tired of dogs running around in places where food is served. I don't like untrained, or barely trained dogs snapping at my kid

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jethro View Post
    Fair enough. You can ask if they are service dogs though, and if not you can ask them to leave. The ADA doesn't recognize ESA's, legit or not. I get tired of dogs running around in places where food is served. I don't like untrained, or barely trained dogs snapping at my kid
    No I cant. I am instructed to not say anything unless the dog is misbehaving.

    Do tell, though. How many times have you or your kid been snapped at by a fake service dog? How many run around unattended in resturants?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    No I cant. I am instructed to not say anything unless the dog is misbehaving.

    Do tell, though. How many times have you or your kid been snapped at by a fake service dog? How many run around unattended in resturants?
    Since you asked, I was snapped at by a "service" poodle at lunch on Thursday last week. The dog was with the group at the next table and someone walking between our tables startled the dog who jumped up and flipped out. Nobody got bitten, but it's asinine to think that either the dog or it's owner had received any special training or should have some special privilege.
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    We is got a good military, maybe cause some kids get to shooting sports early here.

  4. #54
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    Saw one at work the other day. Looked like a pitbull or similar. It was wearing an official looking vest but wasn't behaving like a service dog, bouncing around and greeting other people as if it were looking for attention. When I asked if the dog was too busy working for me to pet him the owner said that it was fine to pet him since he wasn't actually a service dog since he had just trained it himself and then bought the vest online.
    Brandine: Now Cletus, if I catch you with pig lipstick on your collar one more time you ain't gonna be allowed to sleep in the barn no more!
    Cletus: Duly noted.

  5. #55
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    We (my work environment...which is an expression of current govt. policy) have a couple of situations where we offer a distinct incentive for people to lie about being disabled. There's no pushback, you just say you're disabled and get half price. You say you're disabled and bring your pet with you. You say you're disabled and move to the top of the list for the nicer apartments in public housing.

    as always, seinfeld has this covered:



    You can't take a grocery cart on a city bus and take up 6 seats with your groceries. But you can pretend to be disabled and bring a huge walker piled with groceries and take up 6 seats. I've seen one of these people running to catch a bus, carrying her walker....then break into "feeble mode" as soon as she thinks the driver can see her. We've all seen this.

    You can be fake black and get a job at the ACLU. You can be fake disabled and bring your dog with you. People (not all. but many of them...enough to matter) are spineless, lying pussies who will reflexively and shamelessly take the easiest path available. Really, all it takes to fix this is a small adjustment allowing, or perhaps requiring, normal working people to exercise judgment and accepting that those judgments aren't going to be perfect. It's still better than setting up a society where all it takes to get a free bus pass and a cheap apartment and cruise around with your pitbull to free church meals all day in between doses of medicaid-provided opiates and medical marijuana is to concoct some weakass bullshit about being disabled. There's nothing about those people that couldn't be fixed by a few months of being checked by regular working people....and the shame of it is that people pay taxes and give donations because there are many very needy disabled and elderly people who need every bit of those resources, and seeing them be siphoned off by these fucks just boils me....it should piss you off too.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by YetiMan View Post
    We (my work environment...which is an expression of current govt. policy) have a couple of situations where we offer a distinct incentive for people to lie about being disabled. There's no pushback, you just say you're disabled and get half price. You say you're disabled and bring your pet with you. You say you're disabled and move to the top of the list for the nicer apartments in public housing.

    as always, seinfeld has this covered:



    You can't take a grocery cart on a city bus and take up 6 seats with your groceries. But you can pretend to be disabled and bring a huge walker piled with groceries and take up 6 seats. I've seen one of these people running to catch a bus, carrying her walker....then break into "feeble mode" as soon as she thinks the driver can see her. We've all seen this.

    You can be fake black and get a job at the ACLU. You can be fake disabled and bring your dog with you. People are spineless, lying pussies who will reflexively and shamelessly take the easiest path available. Really, all it takes to fix this is a small adjustment allowing, or perhaps requiring, normal working people to exercise judgment and accepting that those judgments aren't going to be perfect. It's still better than setting up a society where all it takes to get a free bus pass and a cheap apartment and cruise around with your pitbull to free church meals all day in between doses of medicaid-provided opiates and medical marijuana is to concoct some weakass bullshit about being disabled. There's nothing about those people that couldn't be fixed by a few months of being checked by regular working people....and the shame of it is that people pay taxes and give donations because there are many very needy disabled and elderly people who need every bit of those resources, and seeing them be siphoned off by these fucks just boils me....it should piss you off too.
    It's all management by lowest common denominator. Far better that we create a class of selfish entitled assholes who take advantage of a system, allowing an entire industry to develop in support of their thinly veiled ruse, than for one legitimately disabled person to be denied access to treatment. All based on one logical fallacy: that a third party can't identify whether someone is disabled, or what accommodations are appropriate. WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME MY STRESS DISORDER ISN'T REAL?! I NEED MY SERVICE KANGAROO IN ORDER TO FUNCTION!!!

    And with that, I suggest we move the rest of this conversation to the Addiction is a Pretend Disease thread, where it belongs.
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    We is got a good military, maybe cause some kids get to shooting sports early here.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    No I cant. I am instructed to not say anything unless the dog is misbehaving.
    posting to verify this is also true where I work....we're not just searching the internet and speculating about this. She and I both deal with this regularly and we're telling you how it is. For better or worse this is how it's played for both of us, and we're both telling you the same thing: if we try to exercise common sense judgment to remove the obvious fakers we're going to be facing disciplinary action from our agencies.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw View Post
    It's all management by lowest common denominator. Far better that we create a class of selfish entitled assholes who take advantage of a system, allowing an entire industry to develop in support of their thinly veiled ruse, than for one legitimately disabled person to be denied access to treatment. All based on one logical fallacy: that a third party can't identify whether someone is disabled, or what accommodations are appropriate. WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME MY STRESS DISORDER ISN'T REAL?! I NEED MY SERVICE KANGAROO IN ORDER TO FUNCTION!!!

    And with that, I suggest we move the rest of this conversation to the Addiction is a Pretend Disease thread, where it belongs.
    The sadness is that I would go through walls to make sure the legitimately disabled are treated properly....Many of them aren't even in this system because it's so clogged with people whose only disability is a weak, shameless character and subsequent staunch unwillingness to support themselves.

    The distinction I see is that I'm there to help, I want to help, I really believe in community health. When I help some of these people get around, get their meds, get their food, etc...it's really important --vital help to them. When I provide the same services to the fakers I can see how it's not really helping them at all, but escorting them further into a trap of rx drug abuse, deep-level psychological pain from knowing they're a fraud and knowing everyone hates them, knowing they're essentially stealing from farmers and war veterans and alzheimers patients; a trap of self-imposed helplessness and fraud.

    From a distance, or in theory it could seem like a fine line, but in practice it's really evident to me and I think any of you who spent a month with me at work would see this. My mom and sister have both come along with me at work for a day each, actually a half-day each, out of curiosity of my job... and they can easily spot the guys and gals out on the fraud trail. These addict fraudsters are sad people, and offering them an easy out into an oblivion of dependency does not constitute help...it's not a pathway to health and happiness.
    Last edited by ill-advised strategy; 06-29-2015 at 10:18 AM.

  9. #59
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    Did you know that if you ask for a wheelchair at the airport security they can't deny you or ask you any questions? And then they bring you right to the front of the security line. Might be useful if you're running late some day. Lots of stories of "miracle cures" on the other side of security.

  10. #60
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    The TSA is known to perform miracles on the reg. Like, where did my watch go, it disappeared!?! TSA: it's a miracle, I wished for a new watch and found one right here in your bin.
    I still call it The Jake.

  11. #61
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    You know, I'm on the front lines of this, and it is sometimes hard for me to swollow, too because these advantage takers usually are the ones that are most likely to be rude or treat me poorly.

    The thing is, all these people are unhappy. They all fight mental illness, they all have health problems. So they bring their dog in, so they pay half fare or no fare at all. I let anyone on free with no fare. If your car breaks and you want to jump on the bus and only have a 20, you ride free.

    These advantage takers, their lives suck or they wouldn't be riding the bus around with their mangy dogs. Bus fares pay for such a small % of the service it's silly we even bother.

    As for the service dogs, there are probably 100s each week and we have had one bite a person. No injuries, just a nip. Out of 100s. Sometimes there are bio spills. 99% of the time it's just a dog on the bus.

    These people, they aren't like you and me. We can go around and around about why people would live like they do, why they can't get it together, but it's more complex than just making a simple choice.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    We can go around and around about why people would live like they do, why they can't get it together, but it's more complex than just making a simple choice.
    Not for the rest of the world, it isn't. Oddly enough, the responsible thing to do is to refuse to acknowledge, let alone accept, this sort of bullshit.
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    We is got a good military, maybe cause some kids get to shooting sports early here.

  13. #63
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    Whisky provides me emotional support. I am going to start making service vest coozies. And all hangover flights (see: all flights) will require a wheelchair boarding.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw View Post
    Not for the rest of the world, it isn't. Oddly enough, the responsible thing to do is to refuse to acknowledge, let alone accept, this sort of bullshit.
    What "rest of the world" are you referring to? The rest of the world with socialized health care? The rest of the world without the huge gap between the rich and poor? The rest of the world with affordable housing?

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    What "rest of the world" are you referring to? The rest of the world with socialized health care? The rest of the world without the huge gap between the rich and poor? The rest of the world with affordable housing?
    The rest of the world that doesn't buy into self indulgent baby boomer bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
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    I guess stfu might be right about steel toed boots
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    I know actual transpeople.
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    We is got a good military, maybe cause some kids get to shooting sports early here.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Did you know that if you ask for a wheelchair at the airport security they can't deny you or ask you any questions? And then they bring you right to the front of the security line. Might be useful if you're running late some day. Lots of stories of "miracle cures" on the other side of security.
    Tell that to my 83 yo mother who had to walk the half mile underground because Delta sucks ass... even though she flew first class and prearranged for one, but no WC for an hour, so she manned up and hoofed it on two bad hips with a cane... fuckers.
    Screw the net, Surf the backcountry!

  17. #67
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    We should just let all folks take their dogs anywhere and if the dogs act up tell them to GTFO. That would be a whole lot simpler. Maybe we could have SCOTUS rule on this like the gay marriage thing. "Sit, Stay, No!?, GTFO"

  18. #68
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    Someone, I don't remember who posted in the annoying things thread once about how a woman glared at him during a train ride or subway ride commute for not giving her his seat... he saw her as just as capable of standing as him.

    Maybe she was, but it annoyed me. I would have given up MY seat to anyone glaring at me for not. Anyone, actually that I thought wanted or needed it. Why? Because I am capable of standing and I have no idea what is really going on with someone else. It certainly doesn't hurt me to stand.

    And old friend of mine was basically missing one hip. She looked like a healthy, pretty young woman until you noticed her missing butt cheek or saw her hobble along with her cane. More than once I witnessed people yelling at her for having a disabled parking permit.

    If someone is cheating the system it's on them.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtngirl79 View Post
    No I cant. I am instructed to not say anything unless the dog is misbehaving.

    Do tell, though. How many times have you or your kid been snapped at by a fake service dog? How many run around unattended in resturants?
    Seldom is my answer. However, I come into this a a landlord, so my view is biased by that. One woman was interested in my place and sent me all her info. In looking up her background, I came across an article in the Aspen Times about her dog biting her neighbor. The day after the unflattering article about her was printed, she had a doctors note saying she needed an "emotional support animal". Fortunately she did not take my place, but she had every right to under the law. I had a newborn that spring, and the last thing I wanted was a snappy dog, with a history of biting and mandatory muzzle wearing, living next door. It is conditions like that that jade me against the whole ESA thing. Valid service dogs are a whole different issue.

  20. #70
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    i remember taking our dog to a department store in nyc back when we lived there.
    she carried the bag back across central park for us.
    #cityretriever

  21. #71
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    I love this clip..

    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    i remember taking our dog to a department store in nyc back when we lived there.
    she carried the bag back across central park for us.
    #cityretriever
    Does she bag her own poo? That would be an awesome service dog!
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jethro View Post
    Seldom is my answer. However, I come into this a a landlord, so my view is biased by that. One woman was interested in my place and sent me all her info. In looking up her background, I came across an article in the Aspen Times about her dog biting her neighbor. The day after the unflattering article about her was printed, she had a doctors note saying she needed an "emotional support animal". Fortunately she did not take my place, but she had every right to under the law. I had a newborn that spring, and the last thing I wanted was a snappy dog, with a history of biting and mandatory muzzle wearing, living next door. It is conditions like that that jade me against the whole ESA thing. Valid service dogs are a whole different issue.
    You cannot be required to rent to someone whose dog is a hazard. Animals are a HUGE help to people who have mental illnesses, emotional issues, the elderly and disabled people who are often isolated, etc etc.

    I think the whole ESA thing is a reaction to the reality that it's spendy and difficult and often impossible for low income people to find places to live where they can have pets.

    I realize there are issues surrounding pets in rental housing, too, but with allowed pets at least a landlord could charge a deposit.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jethro View Post
    The main scam here is people saying their pet is an "emotional support animal". This is a status recognized by the Fair Housing act, and only deals with housing. It allows people to have a pet in a no dog condo/apartment/housing complex. People claiming their ESA's are Service Animals are scamming the system. When it comes to public spaces, the only act of congress recognizing animals is the Americans with Disabilities Act, which only recognizes trained service animals. Emotional Support Animals have NO right to public spaces where pets are prohibited. There is possible exception for airline travel however

    Dcpnz mentioned it.. Airline carrier access act

    The only way this will stop is if people start demanding for certification for Service animals, to be produced on demand. It will take an act of congress. No ESA's period. Your failure to deal with stress isn't a disability. Not that it matters, but I also have a completely useless psychology degree
    Been interesting reading the stories related to this lately in the papers.

  25. #75
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    Fake service dog!



    wait that's a fake service tiger.

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