Fake Service Dogs......

[iceman]

Too many have come to believe that their feelings are being infringed upon. They 'feel' they must have their emotions soothed by having their animal with them 24/7. These are the same types that think they need safe spaces, coloring books and other ridiculous accommodations when they don't get their way and want coddling.

They need to grow up...

...and learn to love guns. Right?

[Meadow Skipper]

Delta takes steps:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/1046380001/

Delta's rules for traveling with service and comfort animals starting March 1 require documentation confirming the safety and necessity of the animal 48 hours before departure.

The passenger must provide a veterinary health form or vaccination record for either category of animals. For comfort animals and psychiatric-service animals, the passenger must also provide:

♦A letter signed by a doctor or licensed mental-health professional stating the passenger’s need for the animal.

♦A signed letter stating the animal is trained to behave without a kennel.

“This new policy is our first step in better protecting those who fly with Delta with a more thoughtful screening process,” said John Laughter, Delta’s senior vice president for corporate safety, security and compliance.

Prediction: some people gone lose they shit.

[summit]

^AWESOME

[nickwm21]

That Delta policy is how you fix this....


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[PNWbrit]

Delta takes steps:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/1046380001/


Prediction: some people gone lose they shit.

Delta is going to get sued. That seems like a clear breach of ADA.



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[summit]

Delta is going to get sued. That seems like a clear breach of ADA.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Their policy matches those of Air Canada and several major European airlines... some of them require a letter from a currently treating mental health provider within the last 6 months re Emotional Support Animals

Where does it violate ADA? They aren't asking what the disability is or what the animal is trained to do, only safety and validity.

Also, Emotional Support Animals are not covered by ADA.

What will get them into trouble (I think... IANAL) is what Delta is willing to accept as a valid letter of need and a valid proof of out-of-kennel training. A letter from some online "service dog" website I paid $25 to 10 years ago? A local kennel? My Aunt Phyllis? A health professional (and which ones count?)

[KQ]

Even small towns are coming to their senses! Woot! Now if we could just get some official (nat'l) standard/registration to stop all the fakes.



College Place works to put restrictions on service animals

COLLEGE PLACE, Washington — College Place is working to revise its policies on service animals.

The old ordinance in the city allowed for almost any animal to be a service animal, but College Place Police Chief Troy Tomaras says that after discussing the issue at last week’s city council meeting, they will strictly adhere to the ADA’s guidelines of only having dogs and miniature horses as service animals.

“There are restrictions on the miniature horses obviously,” Tomaras says. Turns out, they do have to be potty-trained.

The chief says the revisions came after seeing some issues at the university and other businesses with people trying to bring in any service animal of their choosing.

Editor’s Note: The policy has not yet been revised, it is still in progress. Service animals were brought up as an administrative report or introduction. It will be brought for ultimate council decision on January 23.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

Their policy matches those of Air Canada and several major European airlines... some of them require a letter from a currently treating mental health provider within the last 6 months re Emotional Support Animals

Where does it violate ADA? They aren't asking what the disability is or what the animal is trained to do, only safety and validity.

Also, Emotional Support Animals are not covered by ADA.

What will get them into trouble (I think... IANAL) is what Delta is willing to accept as a valid letter of need and a valid proof of out-of-kennel training. A letter from some online "service dog" website I paid $25 to 10 years ago? A local kennel? My Aunt Phyllis? A health professional (and which ones count?)

Well the article mentions service dogs and emotional-support animals. If they ask for documentation for legit ADA service animals that seems like a clear breach of ADA. According to our lawyers you are limited in even the questions you can legally ask, and you certainly cannot ask for written docs for legit ADA service animals. I'll be interested to see how this goes because we've had to deal with a big increase in this bullshit over the last 3-5 years and if some of this holds up for emotional-support support and comfort pets it would be nice to know we've got some recourse if things get worse.

[summit]

Well the article mentions service dogs and emotional-support animals. If they ask for documentation for legit ADA service animals that seems like a clear breach of ADA. According to our lawyers you are limited in even the questions you can legally ask, and you certainly cannot ask for written docs for legit ADA service animals. I'll be interested to see how this goes because we've had to deal with a big increase in this bullshit over the last 3-5 years and if some of this holds up for emotional-support support and comfort pets it would be nice to know we've got some recourse if things get worse.

Well, in that case, the comfort animal abusers will lie and claim "it's an ADA service animal and you can't ask me shit" as an end run.

So will it take a revision of federal law to solve this?

[iceman]

Someone explain the rationale for the ADA not allowing you to question service animals' cred/legitamacy. I don't quite get it. I mean, issue them some ID and have them display it in situations where they need it, how hard is that?

[PNWbrit]

Well the article mentions service dogs and emotional-support animals. If they ask for documentation for legit ADA service animals that seems like a clear breach of ADA. According to our lawyers you are limited in even the questions you can legally ask, and you certainly cannot ask for written docs for legit ADA service animals. I'll be interested to see how this goes because we've had to deal with a big increase in this bullshit over the last 3-5 years and if some of this holds up for emotional-support support and comfort pets it would be nice to know we've got some recourse if things get worse.

^ This, someone at the airline is going to ask about a legit service dog and they're going to get sued.

[PNWbrit]

Someone explain the rationale for the ADA not allowing you to question service animals' cred/legitamacy. I don't quite get it. I mean, issue them some ID and have them display it in situations where they need it, how hard is that?

Make the owners wear some kind of badge perhaps?

[old goat]

I would think that people with legitimate, properly trained service dogs would be the first to support stronger rules re fake service animals. I would guess that fake service dogs outnumber real ones 10 to 1. People with real ones must get tired of the dirty looks,

[PNWbrit]

I would think that people with legitimate, properly trained service dogs would be the first to support stronger rules re fake service animals. I would guess that fake service dogs outnumber real ones 10 to 1. People with real ones must get tired of the dirty looks,

I'm sure.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

Well, in that case, the comfort animal abusers will lie and claim "it's an ADA service animal and you can't ask me shit" as an end run.

It definitely happens. You are allowed to ask two questions: 1) Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? 2) What work or task has the dog been trained to perform?

Most people are honest enough and entitled enough that they don't lie about a real disability and will tell you right out it's an emotional support animal, thinking that must be a legitimate service animal, and start to get defensive. Whereas the the people with real service dogs are usually very pleasant and have no problems explaining why they need their service animal. The flip side is that they are also the ones who don't ask ahead of time and just bring the dog. Which is not such a big problem since we have to let them take it either way, but then we don't have a chance to inform other hut customers. We've had to refund people with dog allergies who were forced to leave the hut when people showed up with dogs (pets, not service dogs). Although the bigger concern for us is if contaminated snow makes it into the snowmelt pots.

[glademaster]

Enjoy your animals on your time, in your space. Leave the goddamn things at home. I am an animal lover, but you won't catch me dead dragging my pet all over town. Fuck that shit, it's a pain in the ass, it annoys everyone around you, and it sets your animal up for a swift kick in the ribs. I wish we could do more to restrict animals in public spaces. My favorite part of living in the Cottonwood Canyons was the ban on dogs.

[old goat]

Enjoy your animals on your time, in your space. Leave the goddamn things at home. I am an animal lover, but you won't catch me dead dragging my pet all over town. Fuck that shit, it's a pain in the ass, it annoys everyone around you, and it sets your animal up for a swift kick in the ribs. I wish we could do more to restrict animals in public spaces. My favorite part of living in the Cottonwood Canyons was the ban on dogs.

Hear hear. (We have a dog, a picture of our recently departed cocker on the mantle--I'll move it if my wife let's me--and a little leather model of an Irish Setter on the mantle as well--we had two back in the day.) I must say I don't mind dogs on the trails, except for the beagle that tried to pass me on a narrow log bridge last year (we both made it), but I do mind owners who don't pick up after them, or worse, pick up and leave the baggy for the poop fairy.

[Meadow Skipper]

The rulez:

Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA?
A. No. These terms are used to describe animals that provide comfort just by being with a person. Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA. However, some State or local governments have laws that allow people to take emotional support animals into public places. You may check with your State and local government agencies to find out about these laws.

Q4. If someone's dog calms them when having an anxiety attack, does this qualify it as a service animal?
A. It depends. The ADA makes a distinction between psychiatric service animals and emotional support animals. If the dog has been trained to sense that an anxiety attack is about to happen and take a specific action to help avoid the attack or lessen its impact, that would qualify as a service animal. However, if the dog's mere presence provides comfort, that would not be considered a service animal under the ADA.

GENERAL RULES

Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?
A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.

Q8. Do service animals have to wear a vest or patch or special harness identifying them as service animals?
A. No. The ADA does not require service animals to wear a vest, ID tag, or specific harness.

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

[TBS]

^^^Regarding Q4, I will be skiing with about 100 disabled veterans and their families tomorrow. Many of whom have Battle Buddies http://www.tbbf.org/ that sense/respond to anxiety attacks and give their human the sense that someone has their six.

Madd Propz to the folks who train these animals. Breaks my heart people need them

[mtngirl79]

Someone explain the rationale for the ADA not allowing you to question service animals' cred/legitamacy. I don't quite get it. I mean, issue them some ID and have them display it in situations where they need it, how hard is that?

It is a privacy thing as well as a quality of life thing. Basically the purpose of the ADA is to help make it so disabled people can do as much as possible on their own without having to deal with anything that the non disabled doesn't have to deal with.

You aren't even suppose to acknowledge a service dog... you want to, and some people don't mind, but the idea is to focus on the person. The ones that are all about you meeting their dog are fakers.

There are also "owner trained" dogs. Usually fake, but then I know of people in wheel chairs that have dogs to pick things up for them. It's not terribly hard to train a dog to do that... and "real service dogs" are insanely expensive... and many disabled people have limited financial resources.

Essentially, the ADA wants to protect disabled people from being singled out.

There is also the question of who certified service dogs if it were required. Who makes the rules? Who pays for it?

[iceman]

If you had a service midget he'd need ID to get on a plane.

[mtngirl79]

If you had a service midget he'd need ID to get on a plane.

You mean if you employed a person to help you that happened to be a midget?

[old goat]

It is a privacy thing as well as a quality of life thing. Basically the purpose of the ADA is to help make it so disabled people can do as much as possible on their own without having to deal with anything that the non disabled doesn't have to deal with.

You aren't even suppose to acknowledge a service dog... you want to, and some people don't mind, but the idea is to focus on the person. The ones that are all about you meeting their dog are fakers.

There are also "owner trained" dogs. Usually fake, but then I know of people in wheel chairs that have dogs to pick things up for them. It's not terribly hard to train a dog to do that... and "real service dogs" are insanely expensive... and many disabled people have limited financial resources.

Essentially, the ADA wants to protect disabled people from being singled out.

There is also the question of who certified service dogs if it were required. Who makes the rules? Who pays for it?

As far as privacy, there are two solutions. One is to forgo privacy in service of the greater good--getting rid of fake service dogs. The better solution is a universally recognized insignia the dog can wear--the same way people have handicapped placards. That way anyone seeing the dog would know it's legit without having to know what the disability is or ask any questions. There would still be fakes, like there are with handicapped placards, but a hefty fine would dissuade most.

As to who certifies--if we can figure out how to regulate Ultimate Frisbee I'm sure we can figure out how to certify service dogs. As far as paying for it--Leader Dogs is entirely funded by donations. Seems like similar organizations for other training would be able to sustain themselves, although govt grants would seem to be preferable. Then it's just a question of compiling a list--at the state level or the federal level--of recognized trainers and issuing the insignia. That should be govt funded. Maybe we could get by with one less fighter jet--that should cover it for the next 1000 years or so.

As far as picking up stuff for a wheelchair bound person, sure it's easy to train the dog to do it. What's hard is to train the dog how to work in public without getting distracted, barking, biting when frightened, etc. That takes months and is beyond the ability of most amateur dog owners.

[Bobby Stainless]

Lots of residents were dodging my pet fees/rent, so I did away with both.

I just charge everyone more to make up for the loss.

[iceman]

You mean if you employed a person to help you that happened to be a midget?

No, if you bought a midget and forced him to work.