Specialized Tire People: Butcher vs Purgatory vs Ground Control. Rear Tire Only

[volklpowdermaniac]

So pretty much self explanatory, I'm getting a new carbon rear rim (wider bed surface) to go with my xtr hub and as such will take this chancel to put on a new rear tire. Currently I have a butcher SX tubeless ( which I love!) upfront and a quickly wearing purgatory control on the rear. I'm running an 07 blur lt with a fox float 36 and an float rp23 in the rear, I ride front range Colorado and high country Colorado, so everything from the forests to the rocks and dust/sand....

My only complaint about the current purgatory is I feel like it lacks bite when I really dig it in cornering around tight berms and loose surfaces,

I would like to go butcher control in rear but people seem to be saying that it will be a bitch of a tire for climbing....

My riding style is: climb up to get down, im a SLOW but steady climber and I'm not a long ass XC guy, but I also don't do lift service more than a year so climbing is an everyday apart of riding

What say you. Stick with the purgatory? Try the GC? Or just suck it up on the climbs for the butcher- is it really noticeable?

[stuckathuntermtn]

26" wheel? Dry conditions? Kenda BBG. No, really. Or maybe see if you can hold out for the 26" Slaughter that kidwoo claims is coming.
I really noticed how slow the Butcher is, especially in any moisture. And I'm using it on the front. High Rollers may be another good option.
Of course, you're very likely faster and stronger than me and might do fine with a Butcher.

[volklpowdermaniac]

26" wheel? Dry conditions? Kenda BBG. No, really. Or maybe see if you can hold out for the 26" Slaughter that kidwoo claims is coming.
I really noticed how slow the Butcher is, especially in any moisture. And I'm using it on the front. High Rollers may be another good option.
Of course, you're very likely faster and stronger than me and might do fine with a Butcher.

Yes 26 incher. Interesting what you said about the slaughter, each of the lbs I spoke to said its the second coming, but no one knew when/if it was coming in the 26

[kidwoo]

It was supposed to. It was even on their dealer order page for a short while like 5 months back. I'm starting to think they scrapped it. Which sucks.......that tire is awesome.

[stuckathuntermtn]

It would sell. People still have 26" wheeled bikes. Or was I supposed to buy 3 new bikes every 2 years?

[kidwoo]

You know what the answer would be from specialized.....

[XtrPickels]

If you want a butcher to try I have two controls sitting and gathering dust. New in package 26". Cheap money or something Belgian to drink. Pick up in Boulder is best.

With that said, ground control is the wrong direction. I think it's fine paired with a butcher on a trail bike when you're looking to save weight and roll faster. It won't hook up better than the purgatory.

[XtrPickels]

It would sell. People still have 26" wheeled bikes. Or was I supposed to buy 3 new bikes every 2 years?

26 is still alive, but it's losing market share. Hard to invest in molds for a wheel size that is dying. (I think the butcher snuck in just before the down turn, so they invested in production and will continue to make those).

So yes, it'll sell, but will it sell enough to recoup costs or make a profit?

[WaistDeepGroomers]

The slaughter is fun.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Is it still that big of an investment if casings in that size already exist and the tread does too?
Honest question since I know basically nothing about tire manufacturing.

[volklpowdermaniac]

Is it still that big of an investment if casings in that size already exist and the tread does too?
Honest question since I know basically nothing about tire manufacturing.

XTR: Pm Sent.

As for the slaughter, I sure do hope it comes out.

[stuckathuntermtn]

BBG

[D(C)]

The GC rolls faster than the Purg and does okay in the wet for such a fast tire, but I wouldn't say it sets a hard edge any better than the Purg.

The Slaughter is sweet and feels more forgiving through the transition and in damp conditions than the BBG. With the BBG, I was very aware of being on a semi-slick type tire whereas the Slaughter just feels like a fast-rolling normal tire. But I guess that doesn't help you with 26".

I'd love to see someone make a fast-rolling all-rounder with serious side knobs, something like a Slaughter but with GC-gauge centre knobs rather than small, tightly packed ones.

All said and done, I think the Purg, in spite of its slightly driftier handling, is a good goldilocks tire for AM riding.

[volklpowdermaniac]

26" wheel? Dry conditions? Kenda BBG. No, really. Or maybe see if you can hold out for the 26" Slaughter that kidwoo claims is coming.
I really noticed how slow the Butcher is, especially in any moisture. And I'm using it on the front. High Rollers may be another good option.
Of course, you're very likely faster and stronger than me and might do fine with a Butcher.

Stronger maybe faster definitely not, I am (or is it was? Or sorta of still am) competitive hockey goalie so I'm full of fast twitch muscle , I can muscle fuck most any SHORT technical climbs, but I'm generally fully gassed at the top of one and my more cardio inclined riding buddies leave me in the dust on any sort of prolonged climbs especially when they can settle into that groove like I'm consistently many minutes behind, can't spin for the life of me, just mash mash mash, I just have not ever been able to improve my long term cardio speed, I can run/bike for a long while but verryyyyyy slowly,

[skibumnh]

Right now I run a butcher up front, and before that I used to run a clutch. In the rear I like the faster rolling but still grippy purg or GC. I run them Stans on some ZTR Flows and I always go for the 2Bliss version for front tires, and in the rear after having shredded countless 2bliss casings (which Spesh warrantied over and over to their credit) I only run the GRID / UST casing. Its heavier but so much more puncture resistant and doesnt fray as quickly as the 2bliss in rocky technical terrain. I've run a clutch in the rear before (similar to butcher) and it is SLOW in comparison. Like riding in sand all the time. I never knew what I was missing until I switched it out.

I think the GC grips better than the purgatory in the rear FWIW. If I wasn't on a full suspension rig climbing I would definitely want a softer rear tire for traction over rolling speed, but the suspension tracking during seated climbing lets you get away with a harder faster tire.

[bsavery]

If you're looking for 26" slaughter (which I love in the 29") you might want to look at a schwalbe rock razer.

[kidwoo]

I finally got to ride a rock razor for about 5 days. Those tires are NOT equivalents unfortunately. I wish they were but those sideknobs are just way too far over and spaced out. You can corner hard on slaughters. All I did was slide around with a RR on the back.

[stuckathuntermtn]

There were knobs left on it after 5 days? After 2?!
I think the obvious answer here is BBGs or High Rollers.

[joetron]

Maxxis crossmark 2.35 LUST.

[Eluder]

The 26" slaughter is on the dealer web site with a part number. Next availability : No info

I have run Butchers front and rear and thought they worked pretty well and roll better than a minion DHF. The Purgatory makes a great rear and is fast rolling, i always paired it with a butcher. Grid casing all around.

[kidwoo]

The 26" slaughter is on the dealer web site with a part number. Next availability : No info

Rather than buy something else I'm just going to keep running bald tires and raging uselessly against that information.

They already made the damn molds........that's the biggest cost. I don't get it.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Once you have the molds, don't you just cut them in lengths of 26pi, 27.5pi, or 29pi, and then vulcanize it to the casing?

[kidwoo]

Molds are circumference specific. That's why you see the injection lines (whiskers) and/or a centerline seam on them, and not one running perpendicular to the wheel.

[SB]

The only thing I dislike Moar than specklize tires is their lawyer heavy bidness practices.

[joetron]

I actually heard that whiskers aren't injection points, but places for air to squeeze out when the rubber is heated up and pushed into the tread mold from 'inside'. Same difference though...circumference specific round molds