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  1. #1
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    snowbird expansion into american fork canyon?

    so for starters, you might want to get adequate input from citizens and politicians from utah county, seeing the plan is to land swap salt lake county snowbird land for 416 acres of upper elevation land in utah county. sure the bird could double in size but at what cost? vote coming in july and seems like a lotta people have no idea. no bueno

    its long but worth a listen - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BVHLlVkNdQ

  2. #2
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    I didn't think this was news. Figured everyone knew the Amer fork plan? Isn't that part of all the talk about a tram extension to top of twins to ski into Mary Ellen? Drop mineral express down to the pond way down by the snomo tour roads? All part of da birds big picture.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    I didn't think this was news. Figured everyone knew the Amer fork plan?
    was on ksl earlier this week. hear you about the bird's plans (in general) but based on the video, just seems a lot of key people in utah county are unaware of the land swap and full scope of what the bird wants to do.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by getoutside View Post
    was on ksl earlier this week. hear you about the bird's plans (in general) but based on the video, just seems a lot of key people in utah county are unaware of the land swap and full scope of what the bird wants to do.
    Ahh gotcha..interesting. Wouldnt the land swap be with the USFS though? Not some local entity? If thats the case the local community input might be taken into account but its far from their decision.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    Ahh gotcha..interesting. Wouldnt the land swap be with the USFS though? Not some local entity? If thats the case the local community input might be taken into account but its far from their decision.
    Land swap would be USFS, yes. My understanding from BIL, who worked for USFS, is the land swap is a win/win on paper. Abating tailings in Mary Ellen costs $, which would no longer be USFS concern, + USFS takes over prime White Pine land. Sucks for some people, sure, but in a world where nothing is cut and dry, it seems like a good compromise, if these are actually the facts(and I'm not for any resort expansion--- fuckem).

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    (and I'm not for any resort expansion--- fuckem).
    Why not?
    picador

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon gaper View Post
    Why not?
    More people like you, less land to enjoy w/o interacting w people like you.
    Success has many fathers, while failure remains an orphan // Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not the fish they are after - HDT

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon gaper View Post
    Why not?
    The resorts are big enough already in an already tiny Wasatch and until traffic/congestion issues are figured out it's just going to contribute to the problem. But my main reason is---fuckem

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Land swap would be USFS, yes. My understanding from BIL, who worked for USFS, is the land swap is a win/win on paper. Abating tailings in Mary Ellen costs $, which would no longer be USFS concern, + USFS takes over prime White Pine land. Sucks for some people, sure, but in a world where nothing is cut and dry, it seems like a good compromise, if these are actually the facts(and I'm not for any resort expansion--- fuckem).
    I've heard roughly the same. Way i see it so far in the life of snowbird ole dickies been pretty fair in what he "trades".
    I get the whole back country argument but, as they say, it is what it is.
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  10. #10
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    OTOH, I wonder if the tradeoff of getting rid of the 2 stroke BRAAAAAAP-ers high pointing in AF would be worth expanding Dickie's hegemony.

  11. #11
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    So would you all have been against Snowbird's creation in 1971? How about Alta?
    “THE EDGE, there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.” HST

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon gaper View Post
    Why not?
    Because we've got enough f'n tourists.
    Johnny's only sin was dispair

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo_lives View Post
    So would you all have been against Snowbird's creation in 1971? How about Alta?
    Alta had been around long before anyone gave a shit.
    Johnny's only sin was dispair

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontana View Post
    More people like you, less land to enjoy w/o interacting w people like you.
    lol qft

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo_lives View Post
    So would you all have been against Snowbird's creation in 1971? How about Alta?
    AFAIK the creation of Snowbird was quite controversial and a lot of people were against it.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbillie1 View Post
    AFAIK the creation of Snowbird was quite controversial and a lot of people were against it.
    I love the original Save Our Canyons poster of King Kong standing over the Wasatch.
    Johnny's only sin was dispair

  17. #17
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    The changes to Utah n the last decade have been dramatic. I used to be able t go on rides where I would not see another sole. Now I see crowds like never I saw in Colorado. Some trails are a constant dismount. Ditto with skiing. I also think a higher percentage of skiers are getting into the back country, as well as people in general. I have been out several times on low angle stuff I used to frequent at night when we had young children and found it tracked out by snow shoers walking down the pitch for fun in the powder. I am torn. I saw lines this season like I had not experienced in Utah, in what was a very average snow year. Will expansion dissipate the crowds, or just bring in more? In the end, I blame California, Texas and Vail. Mostly because their is no logic in hate, and they seem to be the focus in my short lifetime in the Rockies.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    I've heard roughly the same. Way i see it so far in the life of snowbird ole dickies been pretty fair in what he "trades".
    I get the whole back country argument but, as they say, it is what it is.
    Never skied ME, but the most tragic part to me is the dropping off of gapers up on the AF Twins. Are they gonna man someone at the top of Pipeline when its open to save gapers from themselves? Permanent closure? Ol' Reliable gonna be a bump run? Germicide?
    Used to love that hike!
    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo_lives View Post
    So would you all have been against Snowbird's creation in 1971? How about Alta?
    Woulda been 2 in '71, sooo...... no.
    Nobody cares about Alta!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Never skied ME, but the most tragic part to me is the dropping off of gapers up on the AF Twins. Are they gonna man someone at the top of Pipeline when its open to save gapers from themselves? Permanent closure? Ol' Reliable gonna be a bump run? Germicide?
    Used to love that hike!


    Woulda been 2 in '71, sooo...... no.
    Nobody cares about Alta!
    Those lines are for sure more dangerous to gapers than anything on baldy into Alta really. They are usually closed now anyway so maybe it's not a big deal? It will make access to that way easier. I rarely think of the gapers though.

    Will be interesting to see for sure.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    Those lines are for sure more dangerous to gapers than anything on baldy into Alta really. They are usually closed now anyway so maybe it's not a big deal? It will make access to that way easier. I rarely think of the gapers though.

    Will be interesting to see for sure.
    That's what I thought, but most my time spent there is springtime, and it seemed to be open quite a bit, so that was the first leg of our circuit. I hear ya, those are just classic lines and the hike up was part of the experience(I feel the exact same way about Fantasy at Soli), just sucks to think of those lines being sideslipped out. Wouldn't doubt if WP sees more traffic too, but I'm not sure how much its open in season either

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada1 View Post
    The changes to Utah n the last decade have been dramatic. I used to be able t go on rides where I would not see another sole. Now I see crowds like never I saw in Colorado. Some trails are a constant dismount. Ditto with skiing. I also think a higher percentage of skiers are getting into the back country, as well as people in general. I have been out several times on low angle stuff I used to frequent at night when we had young children and found it tracked out by snow shoers walking down the pitch for fun in the powder. I am torn. I saw lines this season like I had not experienced in Utah, in what was a very average snow year. Will expansion dissipate the crowds, or just bring in more? In the end, I blame California, Texas and Vail. Mostly because their is no logic in hate, and they seem to be the focus in my short lifetime in the Rockies.
    Population has gone up a lot and popularity of the goods in all seasons is too. Honestly I don't have any issue with crowds that are out to exercise and enjoy the mtns outside the resorts. Good snow season or bad there's always a niche for those looking to get fulfilling Wasatch turns. For me this year the above average stability of the snowpack let me get on some steeper and more exposed lines than I do in a normal year. The turns weren't perfect but the objectives were bigger.

    The stuff next to the trailheads gets tracked pretty badly but I never fail to find fresh turns on tours. Even in high traffic areas it's not as bad as some posts on TGR might have you believe. I bitch about resorts as much or more as the next guy but SLC isn't even close to losing its crown as the king of work life balance for a city its size. Just gotta adapt as things change and stick to your guns when it comes to voicing $upport for conservation etc.

    Protetcing White Pine going forward is a nice win, and I'm not old or core enough to know Mary Ellen well. Feel for the guys that liked it though.
    Success has many fathers, while failure remains an orphan // Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not the fish they are after - HDT

  22. #22
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    I skied the Bird a little more than a month after opening, Feb. 1972. The tram plaza was the only building, only 15-20 people per tram and SLC had 250,000 people.
    Things change.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shredhead View Post
    I skied the Bird a little more than a month after opening, Feb. 1972. The tram plaza was the only building, only 15-20 people per tram and SLC had 250,000 people.
    Things change.
    I'm new to SLC but is it losing population then?


  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbillie1 View Post
    I'm new to SLC but is it losing population then?
    He probably meant the greater SLC metro area, which now has a population of more than 1 million people https://www.google.com/search?q=salt...utf-8&oe=utf-8

  25. #25
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    SLC proper is landlocked and by land area is small with no room for expansion. The valley has grown exponentially and is projected to grow for the foreseeable future.

    More BC enthusiasts is not limited to the Wasatch, its everywhere. Lightweight skis, better equipment in general with AT bindings that work well in Alpine mode and just a more motivated participant has pushed the bounds. Yea, White Pine approach sucks on a weekend but once you get to where your going it's ok. Weekdays I don't see that it gets that much usage. The bigger problem is when you get freeze thaw cycles like we had last winter the skin track out of WP sucked. Need to inform the uneducated, "DON'T BOOT PACK ON THE FUCKING SKIN TRACK"

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